A hero amongst us... ***graphic***

[The Squadfather]

anyone who thinks this "war" is moral is insane.

[The Master]

Comment: A hero amongst us.
Matt C: I would say that depends if the war is moral or not.  Do you think the war is moral?
Comment: The war IS moral!
Matt C: So it's moral to fight a war that resulted in the deaths of (very conservatively) 76,000 innocent people so far?
Comment: ...well, our quality of life is higher now that the US is involved!
Matt C: So the war isn't moral, but you're justifying it with the "means to an end" principle?
Comment: Hey, who are you to talk?!  Your [sic] just some keyboard commander who has never left his mother's basement.
Matt C: [posts parts of military record].
Comment: [bashes Matt C's military record].  Well, you never trained in the infantry.
Matt C: [posts proof of years of infantry training].

...

Great debate so far.  It's really nice to see no remnants of any civilized debate whatsoever that you guys are actually providing me with facts and evidence so that I can discuss my point of view more clearly.

Debussey = certain that Debussey could somehow find a way to argument for the fact that this war = moral.

 

[Matt C]

Debussey = certain that Debussey could somehow find a way to argument for the fact that this war = moral.

 

I have to run again, but I would like you to update me in this thread if you can show that.  I was reading a book in the summer on objective morality versus relativism and I was more persuaded by the philosophers who were defending objective morality.  Would be very interested in learning more.

PS - as an example, stealing land from Native Americans may have been in our best long term interest, but that hardly made it moral, and hardly made the men doing it heroes.

[Special Ed]

Comment: A hero amongst us.
Matt C: I would say that depends if the war is moral or not.  Do you think the war is moral?
Comment: The war IS moral!
Matt C: So it's moral to fight a war that resulted in the deaths of (very conservatively) 76,000 innocent people so far?
Comment: ...well, our quality of life is higher now that the US is involved!
Matt C: So the war isn't moral, but you're justifying it with the "means to an end" principle?
Comment: Hey, who are you to talk?!  Your [sic] just some keyboard commander who has never left his mother's basement.
Matt C: [posts parts of military record].
Comment: [bashes Matt C's military record].  Well, you never trained in the infantry.
Matt C: [posts proof of years of infantry training].

...

Great debate so far.  It's really nice to see no remnants of any civilized debate whatsoever that you guys are actually providing me with facts and evidence so that I can discuss my point of view more clearly.

Matt,

You're pre-supposing that YOUR information is accurate. For example:

1. What evidence do you have that 76,000 civilians have been killed?
2. What evidence do you have that all civilians killed were in fact innocent, and not aiding the enemy?
3. What evidence do you have that those civilians have been killed by American soldiers and not by the enemy?
4. What evidence do you have that suicide bombers and their victims are not included in your "civilian" figure?

Answer: You have no evidence. You rely on reports of a media that is biased against the current administration. Civilian casualties are a necessary evil. But you cannot make a moral equivalent between civilian casualties in this war anymore than you can in any other war. In WWII, the Germans blitzed England killing thousands of innocent civilians. When the Royal Air Force bombed Dresden over the course of THREE DAYS, they killed between 30,000-40,000 civilians. Do you condemn the Royal Air Force?

[240 is Back]

onlyme,

your brother skipped the NFL draft to be a cop to help people?

IMO, he should have played for 3 years, and saved up enough $ to buy 20 people new homes.  Or to invest $ in his community to help the youth.  THEN work as a cop.  Anytime you have a job where you're going to make 500k a year (or much more), you take it, and do the world lots of good with that kinda $.

[Camel Jockey]

Not to be mean or anything but you would be the last person I would want covering my back in any situation after reading your posts.  You couldn't be trusted because you are the type that would turn around and run when something went down..  My brother is a cop and I promise you 10000000000% his education blows you out the door and so does his awards and accolades.  He has met 3 presidents in his life.  Everyone of them invited him.  He graduated with a degree and became a cop instead of a pro football player like everyone thought he was going to be.  He did this because he wanted to help people who needed help.  Guys like you use an excuse because in simple terms you are afraid.  It takes a certain person to volunteer to be a cop or in the military.  Look at Tillman.  It's alright if you are afraid and you want to use this excuse but to say these guys aren't smart is pretty stupid on your part. 

That's not politically correct to point out, but it is nevertheless true.

Another meaningless ad hominem attack..

Thought your fatass was reforming? hahahaha

[dr.chimps]

Matt,

You're pre-supposing that YOUR information is accurate. For example:

1. What evidence do you have that 76,000 civilians have been killed?
2. What evidence do you have that all civilians killed were in fact innocent, and not aiding the enemy?
3. What evidence do you have that those civilians have been killed by American soldiers and not by the enemy?
4. What evidence do you have that suicide bombers and their victims are not included in your "civilian" figure?

Answer: You have no evidence. You rely on reports of a media that is biased against the current administration. Civilian casualties are a necessary evil. But you cannot make a moral equivalent between civilian casualties in this war anymore than you can in any other war. In WWII, the Germans blitzed England killing thousands of innocent civilians. When the Royal Air Force bombed Dresden over the course of THREE DAYS, they killed between 30,000-40,000 civilians. Do you condemn the Royal Air Force?

Ed. You know better than this. Well respected organizations such as Medicines Sans Frontieres, for instance, have tried to document actual numbers, not the inflated ones by the 'liberals' nor the laughably low-balled ones by the Bush regime. They are truly significant. To say they aren't diminishes us all.   

[Special Ed]

Ed. You know better than this. Well respected organizations such as Medicines Sans Frontieres, for instance, have tried to document actual numbers, not the inflated ones by the 'liberals' nor the laughably low-balled ones by the Bush regime. They are truly significant. To say they aren't diminishes us all.   

Not familiar with 'Medicines Sans Frontieres', but if they're French, they cannot be trusted.

[dr.chimps]

Not familiar with 'Medicines Sans Frontieres', but if they're French, they cannot be trusted.

Hehe. Rifle droppers, eh? Worse than the Italians? MSF are also, as you can probably tell, better known as Doctors without Borders. I think they got the peace prize a few years ago for their work. Beyond reproach. The baddies know this and frequently impede their work by using them as shields or hostages.

[Mydavid]

Are you trying to imply that there is something wrong with that?

Oh no, i think that's awesome for anyone

Lisa

[The Master]

Oh no, i think that's awesome for anyone

Lisa

The only problem with your post was that you presupposed that your interpretation of the "common norms" are more mature than MattC's, and that you subtily wanted to show this, plus your disgust for him not following your interpretation.

Sad, when the entire foundation behind your reasoning is based on ways of thinking that simply inhibits individual freedom to keep people centered around the average, concieled as "maturity". Unfortunately, nobody with this way of thinking has ever contributed more to society than to keep it flowing around status quo.

Luckily, individuals of higher quality break free from this kind of thinking, because they understand that there is no rational reason for doing so, except conformity. Who cares what the average contemporary losers thinks? People that thinks for themselves = the best of the best.

Thus, your little remark shows little besides the fact that you are pretty average, and wants everybody else (including people of higher quality than yourself, judged by rational indicators) to be so as well. At least then you can feel good for being the "superior interpretator" of the social codec you think = the only one, while you in reality = trapped in a mental paradigm for the average thrash.



 

[Matt C]

Matt,

You're pre-supposing that YOUR information is accurate. For example:

1. What evidence do you have that 76,000 civilians have been killed?
2. What evidence do you have that all civilians killed were in fact innocent, and not aiding the enemy?
3. What evidence do you have that those civilians have been killed by American soldiers and not by the enemy?
4. What evidence do you have that suicide bombers and their victims are not included in your "civilian" figure?

Answer: You have no evidence. You rely on reports of a media that is biased against the current administration. Civilian casualties are a necessary evil. But you cannot make a moral equivalent between civilian casualties in this war anymore than you can in any other war. In WWII, the Germans blitzed England killing thousands of innocent civilians. When the Royal Air Force bombed Dresden over the course of THREE DAYS, they killed between 30,000-40,000 civilians. Do you condemn the Royal Air Force?

Alright Ed, it's fair that you hold me to a high burden of proof to show you how 76,000+ innocent people have been killed, but how come the same burden of proof doesn't seem to apply to the official story of 9.11?  Can you conclusively prove to me (beyond media conjecture) that it was in fact an act of terrorism exactly as described?

[The Master]

Alright Ed, it's fair that you hold me to a high burden of proof to show you how 76,000+ innocent people have been killed, but how come the same burden of proof doesn't seem to apply to the official story of 9.11?  Can you conclusively prove to me (beyond media conjecture) that it was in fact an act of terrorism exactly as described?

The only burden of proof around = proving that Gary Busey = not god. THAT = impossible. Good luck!

[Matt C]

onlyme,

your brother skipped the NFL draft to be a cop to help people?

IMO, he should have played for 3 years, and saved up enough $ to buy 20 people new homes.  Or to invest $ in his community to help the youth.  THEN work as a cop.  Anytime you have a job where you're going to make 500k a year (or much more), you take it, and do the world lots of good with that kinda $.

Absolutely true.  Let me be totally clear on this for those ignorant or naive to this fact: money buys EVERYTHING in life.  If you have a billionaire, you can pretty well live outside the law!  In fact, the only crime you would be convicted of in such a case would be one that resulted in someone else's money being compromised.  Bill Gates has done far more for the world than any one single police officer.  Money is survival and survival is everything.

[The Master]

Absolutely true.  Let me be totally clear on this for those ignorant or naive to this fact: money buys EVERYTHING in life.  If you have a billionaire, you can pretty well live outside the law!  In fact, the only crime you would be convicted of in such a case would be one that resulted in someone else's money being compromised.  Bill Gates has done far more for the world than any one single police officer.  Money is survival and survival is everything.

Many people thinks money = bad. How stupid.

Money = one of mankinds greatest inventions. Without money, civilization would be back to the exchange economy, and quickly go back to the stone age.

Money = great.

[Matt C]

Many people thinks money = bad. How stupid.

Money = one of mankinds greatest inventions. Without money, civilization would be back to the exchange economy, and quickly go back to the stone age.

Money = great.

Money is everything!  It means so much.  I used to feel guilty for holding these sentiments.  Now there is no chance that I ever would.  I feel no guilt at all for that.  Money absolutely makes the world go 'round.  If money was irrelevant we wouldn't be fighting this war to begin with.

[The Master]

Money is everything!  It means so much.  I used to feel guilty for holding these sentiments.  Now there is no chance that I ever would.  I feel no guilt at all for that.  Money absolutely makes the world go 'round.  If money was irrelevant we wouldn't be fighting this war to begin with.

Debussey cringes when somebody says "money is the root to all evil".

The reality is that if money did not exists, the same people would be living in the stone age with a huge risk of being killed in tribal warfare or something.

People should thank the idea of money for what it has given mankind. We live in the safest times in history, with technology and unlimited food supply. Without the concept of money, this would never ever happen. We'd still be in the stone age.

Without money, we'd still be getting killed by animals and people like Fred Flintstone.


Thinking money = bad is an irrational stupid life destroying idea.

[bigbobs]

The fact is the people who are most angry at Blutos' comments are the same type who usually make hate comments and either call for Muslim civilians to be killed or make comments suggesting they have no sympathy when Muslim civilians are killed.  While I would not make Bluto's comments on here, I think he is just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

And I think many on this thread are misunderstanding any opposition to US foreign policy as a direct and personal attack on Jason Pegg.

That said, I've only read the first page of this thread, came across it too late and dont want to read 15 more pages

[trab]

.....  Let me be totally clear on this for those ignorant or naive to this fact: money buys EVERYTHING in life. 

You are a stupid little boy,...

If by some accident you should suddenly come into money, you will learn, in not so long, that money is far from everything.

I support your right to free speech as long as it harms nobody else, even if you are wrong.

In fact why dont you go out to the nearest bars and talk loud about your fucked up beliefs instead of from the safety of your keyboard.

[The Master]

You are a stupid little boy,...

Do you think you = smarter?

[bigbobs]

Oh and one more thing, to the people who are getting upset that people are discussing the war in a thread that is supposed to be a tribute to Jason Pegg, ask yourself if you would reply and discuss the war itself if an Afghan made a thread here paying tribute to a fellow Afghan who nearly lost his life in an attack?

[240 is Back]

woah guys...

50% of the 911 commissioners have called for a new investigation.  One of them called it a 'whitewash'.  One announced 2 weeks ago that he was outraged the whitehouse stopped the FBI from investigating ties between the hijackers and their FBI informant LANDLORD.  And one of them went on CNN and mentioned the missile that hit the pentagon.

So please, don't bother defending the 911 Commission findings - because they readily admit it is flawed and that new information has come to light requiring a new investigation.  You're trying to sell a recalled car here, fellahs.  

[Special Ed]

woah guys...

50% of the 911 commissioners have called for a new investigation.  One of them called it a 'whitewash'.  One announced 2 weeks ago that he was outraged the whitehouse stopped the FBI from investigating ties between the hijackers and their FBI informant LANDLORD.  And one of them went on CNN and mentioned the missile that hit the pentagon.

So please, don't bother defending the 911 Commission findings - because they readily admit it is flawed and that new information has come to light requiring a new investigation.  You're trying to sell a recalled car here, fellahs. 

Don't forget that the Twin Towers are still standing. They just painted the towers camouflage like the Predator and only Arnold can see them!

[The Master]

Don't forget that the Twin Towers are still standing. They just painted the towers camouflage like the Predator and only Arnold can see them!

Why is the Block being replaced?

[chaos]

Still