MATT C CONSIDERS THE 911 HIJACKERS "WAR HEROS"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OzmO]

This terrorism thing has grown so much that there might not be a solution..  Couple some straightforward faith with lack of education and you have a chaos.

Terrorism has grown becuase of the worse decision in US history(Iraq war), not becuase of 9/11.  Had we completed our mission in the tora bora mountains it would have took them even longer to recover.

I'm not saying getting OBL would have ended anything.

Now look at their situation becuase of 9/11, they have 150,000 US troops in the middle east fighting them where they didn't have that before.  So tell me how their situation is better because of 9/11.  They have 150,000 US troops in "their  " land!

[OzmO]

Do you mean like when they offered the Taliban roads paved with gold for that pipeline, or when they demanded the gov of Afghanistan turn him over immediately or they were going to blast it into the middle ages. Wasn't it spun in the context that it was the Afghans own fault 'cause all they had to do was turn him over? Wasn't it spun that the invasion of Iraq was Saddam's own fault, ...'cause all he had to do was turn over the WMD's that Rummy knew were there? You know, ...the ones whose precise locations were known (hidden in Tikrit, and north, south, east & west of there) or boms would rain down upon them? Baghdad would be "shocked & awed"  Or like when they demanded Vietnam do what it wanted, ...or even like when they demanded Hussein comply? Is that what you mean?
I guess Iraq doesn't count because Hussein actually did comply, ...but they went in anyway.
Are these examples of the classic criminal mentality you're talking about?

Re-read the other posts of mine Jag and keep in mind the point I'm making on the issue i am talking about. 

If you want to play your bash America game you can bring up your issues here or on another thread but your response is not related to what I'm talking about in that America did not cause 19 hijackers to ram planes full of passengers into buildings.  They made that choice all by themselves.

Think about it, would you accept the blame after being raped becuase you dressed a certain way?

America needs to be accountable for the part it played in motivating hatred.  But those who committed the crime are fully accountable for choosing to act on those crimes by killing innocent people.

[240 is Back]

Terrorism has grown becuase of the worse decision in US history(Iraq war), not becuase of 9/11.  Had we completed our mission in the tora bora mountains it would have took them even longer to recover.

Why do you believe we left the north road out of Tora unbombed?
Then we pulled all afghan troops from it, and didn't move any US forces there.
Then a 1000 vehicle envoy 'escaped' one night and allowed taliban leadership to get away.


It's easy to chalk it up to a mistake... but all the top generals and media heads were on TV yelling "Bomb the north road!  It's osama's only escape!"

How would the best military in history "accidentally" forget to guard an obvious escape route, then "not notice" 1000 cars escaping and driving to jalalabad and the pashtun region, where many were flown to Egypt?

I think this goes beyond silly CTs and beyond incompetence.  Mistakes of this degree don't happen.  Was it intentional to allow osama to escape to justify setting up longterm in afghanistan, pakistan, and later, iraq? Hmmmm

[OzmO]

Why do you believe we left the north road out of Tora unbombed?
Then we pulled all afghan troops from it, and didn't move any US forces there.
Then a 1000 vehicle envoy 'escaped' one night and allowed taliban leadership to get away.


It's easy to chalk it up to a mistake... but all the top generals and media heads were on TV yelling "Bomb the north road!  It's osama's only escape!"

How would the best military in history "accidentally" forget to guard an obvious escape route, then "not notice" 1000 cars escaping and driving to jalalabad and the pashtun region, where many were flown to Egypt?

I think this goes beyond silly CTs and beyond incompetence.  Mistakes of this degree don't happen.  Was it intentional to allow osama to escape to justify setting up longterm in afghanistan, pakistan, and later, iraq? Hmmmm

Just to be clear, the biggest mistake in US history was invading Iraq.

As far as Tora Bora,  who knows?  I know what it looks like.    I do believe it was halted on purpose.  But you and i don't have all the information. 

Also, mistakes to this degree do happen. 

[240 is Back]

Just to be clear, the biggest mistake in US history was invading Iraq.

As far as Tora Bora,  who knows?  I know what it looks like.    I do believe it was halted on purpose.  But you and i don't have all the information. 

Also, mistakes to this degree do happen. 

Also, mistakes to this degree do happen. 

The number one wanted man in the world.
Pinpointed and picked up giving orders on the radio.
We give an escape route.
We don't notice 1000 cars leaving one night.

I am not gullible enough to believe 1000 cars escaped via an unguarded/unbombed route without us noticing.  And, since everyone they interviewed on MSNBC, FOX, CNN, and others were all going apeshit about the unguarded northern route BEFORE he escaped, it's safe to say they knew it was vulnerable.

Hey, if the bigger goal was Iraq, then yeah, they had to let him escape, right?  Nobody would have supported invading iraq if we got osama in 2 months.

and IMO, invading iraq was a good move in the bigger scheme of things.  contorl all the oil, keep it in dollars.  all those new bases.

[OzmO]

The number one wanted man in the world.
Pinpointed and picked up giving orders on the radio.
We give an escape route.
We don't notice 1000 cars leaving one night.

I am not gullible enough to believe 1000 cars escaped via an unguarded/unbombed route without us noticing.  And, since everyone they interviewed on MSNBC, FOX, CNN, and others were all going apeshit about the unguarded northern route BEFORE he escaped, it's safe to say they knew it was vulnerable.

Hey, if the bigger goal was Iraq, then yeah, they had to let him escape, right?  Nobody would have supported invading iraq if we got osama in 2 months.

and IMO, invading iraq was a good move in the bigger scheme of things.  contorl all the oil, keep it in dollars.  all those new bases.

Like i said earlier, we don't have all the info.

Here's a possibility off the top of my head:

-  We didn't have the ground assets to block off the escape route and we didn't to use air to slaughter the 1000 vehicles escaping (like from Kuwait in 1st gulf war) that would have surely contained many women and children in it, thus causing world public opinion to sway agaisnt us and put us in an even poorer position to invade Iraq making the USA look like butchers.

[headhuntersix]

I will say it now and say it again..u can debate all u want..especially iraq..afghanistan is a waaaaaaaaay different animal. I don't know how many chopper rides i though would end smacked into the side of mountains. I have walked some of Tora Bora..is friggen hell. Everything is harder there. Radios cut out,  helo's can't catch the air. Dust...plus because of all the political bullshit.