Honestly, what the hell is going on here?

[Hugo Chavez]

McCain magically jumps up to to the top of the polls, and I mean magically, he didn't do anything different.

The reasons given are that the surge is working and people arn't as opposed to McCain keeping the neocon ball rolling in the middle east.  I've heard this reasoning over and over and over.

Well...

If that's how Americans feel, but wait, is it?

Fuck NO...

Opinions on Iraq remain relitively unchanged with even more people now saying we should have stayed out
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

So honestly, what the fuck is this BS.  I hate to cry conspiracy do to the meltdowns it causes but this smells as rotten as 2 week old road kill...

[Hedgehog]

McCain magically jumps up to to the top of the polls, and I mean magically, he didn't do anything different.

The reasons given are that the surge is working and people arn't as opposed to McCain keeping the neocon ball rolling in the middle east.  I've heard this reasoning over and over and over.

Well...

If that's how Americans feel, but wait, is it?

Fuck NO...

Opinions on Iraq remain relitively unchanged with even more people now saying we should have stayed out
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

So honestly, what the fuck is this BS.  I hate to cry conspiracy do to the meltdowns it causes but this smells as rotten as 2 week old road kill...

It's as easy as something called framing.

Right now, what is being discussed, and what is being on most people's agenda, are issues that McCain are strong in.

Economy, fiscal responisbility, et al. These things, I'm sure McCain more than most of the other candidates is perceived as trustworthy.


BTW, the "neocon surge" isn't working.

The Bush administration has finally left the aggression tactic for the first time in 7 years, and is now, in the final hours, trying the diplomacy approach, seriously trying to bring Palestine and Israel together.

[Hugo Chavez]

BTW, the "neocon surge" isn't working.

BTW, I didn't say it was.  But OVER HERE, they're constantly "framing" it as a success and constantly attributing McCain's surge to it.  All the polls show no change in opinion on the war.  There is obviously a problem with this valuation of McCain's overnight surge to the top.  That leaves the other issues you talk about, the situation here issue wise hasn't moved.  Concerns with the ecomony and war were the same months ago.  McCain just popped to the top--like magic and over here, they attribute it to success in Iraq.


If he gets in, I'm sending a case of Depends and Ensure to the Whitehouse.

[headhuntersix]

Militarily the sure is an overwhelming sucess...u guys can stick ur heads in the sand all u want but less guys are dying...less civilians and more infrastructure is being rebuilt. The government will have to fall in line after that.

[Hugo Chavez]

Militarily the sure is an overwhelming sucess...u guys can stick ur heads in the sand all u want but less guys are dying...less civilians and more infrastructure is being rebuilt. The government will have to fall in line after that.

Thanks for completely missing the point of the thread.  The success or failure of the surge is not the issue.  The issue I raised is the FACT that "public opinion" of the war has NOT chanced while success of the surge is noted for McCain's surge.  Get on topic--thanks

[OzmO]

Has something like this never happened before in politics?   

[headhuntersix]

Get on topic...how many threads gets hijacked here ..anyway hedge said the Neocon surge wasn't working. I think people are in the ignore the war mode. If it wasn't an election year, nobody would be talking about it unless something big happened. The media has nothing to harp on with the surge actually working. Plus the Dems are attacking each other right now...race is the new issue.

[I ETA PI]

Get on topic...how many threads gets hijacked here ..anyway hedge said the Neocon surge wasn't working. I think people are in the ignore the war mode. If it wasn't an election year, nobody would be talking about it unless something big happened. The media has nothing to harp on with the surge actually working. Plus the Dems are attacking each other right now...race is the new issue.

We get it.  You were/are in the military.  Iraq is peachy keen, everything is working.  You're privy to information that non-military men wouldn't be able to handle. 
Can you discuss something else now?

[Hugo Chavez]

Has something like this never happened before in politics?   

What rigged elections?  I think not, you have a point

[Hugo Chavez]

We get it.  You were/are in the military.  Iraq is peachy keen, everything is working.  You're privy to information that non-military men wouldn't be able to handle. 
Can you discuss something else now?

nope

[OzmO]

What rigged elections?  I think not, you have a point

Are you suggesting that McCain's surge in the polls is a precursor to a rigged election?

[Hugo Chavez]

Are you suggesting that McCain's surge in the polls is a precursor to a rigged election?

I thought you were suggesting No, I wouldn't do that here, not anymore.  Tooooo many meltdowns involved in the slightest suggestion of conspiracy, forget I said anything   I just noted something doesn't sound right with everyone attributing a massive jump to the top for McCain to success in Iraq when in fact nobody has changed their minds in the polls on Iraq.  Something stinks there.  So what is it?  His position on other things hasn't changed.  Other issues haven't changed.  As it is now, without the Iraq thing, you just have a magic jump for McCain.  He went from dwindling support to Number 1 overnight.  In the past that has not happened without valid reasons to back it, such as awkward screams replayed over and over by an opponent or whatever.  I'm not the one who went to Iraq as the reason McCain jumped, that would be all the pundits and well just about every last person I've heard speak on it from Fox to CNN.  I'm just saying, clearly by public opinion on Iraq, that reason doesn't cut it.

[OzmO]

  I'm just saying, clearly by public opinion on Iraq, that reason doesn't cut it.

So what do you think it is?

[Hugo Chavez]

So what do you think it is?

I think it stinks, I don't have a theory past something doesn't look right which is why I ask what the hell is going on here.  So I'm open to suggestion.  I just am fairly confident in saying the pundits are full of grade AAA Bullshit in saying he jumped because of a success in Iraq, the polls don't show support for that notion at all.  And I'm open to all suggestion, foul play is hardly anything new to elections and anything but a shock.  Been happening for a long long long long long time here and everywhere else.

[OzmO]

I think it stinks, I don't have a theory past something doesn't look right which is why I ask what the hell is going on here.  So I'm open to suggestion.  I just am fairly confident in saying the pundits are full of grade AAA Bullshit in saying he jumped because of a success in Iraq, the polls don't show support for that notion at all.  And I'm open to all suggestion, foul play is hardly anything new to elections and anything but a shock.  Been happening for a long long long long long time here and everywhere else.

Maybe, there's been a swing becuase of Huckabee's extreme Christian stance on things.  Romney's too weak and not "enough Christian"  Huckabee, looks too religious, and Guliani looks too corrupt and has had too many divorces.   So who does that leave in the wake of "better" news in Iraq?

Mr Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran himself.

In some ways the republican candidates are looking like the same freak show as the dems.

[Straw Man]

I saw this on the horizon months ago

Personally, I don't think it's any more complicated that the fact that the two presumptive front runners - Romney and Guiliani have a lot of flaws and by comparison McCain looks good.

There was a poll by Gallup (I think) a few months ago that showed when McCain was matched up againts any of the Dems it created the closest race of any of the other Republicans

Also, McCain will play ball with his corporate overlords and continue with the military misadventures in he pattern of Bush. 

Basically he's their best hope in a very weak and flawed pool of potential candidates.

Throw Huckleberry Hound on the ticket as a tip of the hat to the Jesus crowd and they've got a good chance, especially against Billary

[OzmO]

That makes too much sense.   

[Hugo Chavez]

That makes too much sense.   

[Straw Man]

McCain won 7 primaries in 2000:  New Hampshire, Michigan, Arizona, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Vermont

He's a legitimate candidate and maybe people who voted for him in the past are more comfortable with him than Romney (flip floppper, seemed to be a liberal in the past, kooky religious beliefs) and Guiliani (slimy ex-mayor 911, 911, 911 ad naseum).  At least with McCain they think they know what they are getting

The discrepencies with the voting machines with Obama and Hilary are a bit strange.  One story I heard (which I can find in writing) is that the hand count and the machine count had the exact opposite results for those two almost to virtually the exact % point

Anyway - the process has just started and nothing is set in stone yet by any measure and that's a good thing
 

[Bindare_Dundat]

The media only talks about 4 people, McCain, Clinton, Obama and Huckabee and it's been that way for a long time now.

It's insane to think the media doesn't influence the people by how much they expose certain canidates. It becomes even more obvious when the people vote and they can't even explain why they voted for that particular canidate, all they know is thats the person they've seen the most of on tv, so he must be the guy that's gonna win.

If the media gave every canidate equal coverage, the race would look a lot different.

[Hugo Chavez]

The media only talks about 4 people, McCain, Clinton, Obama and Huckabee and it's been that way for a long time now.

It's insane to think the media doesn't influence the people by how much they expose certain canidates. It becomes even more obvious when the people vote and they can't even explain why they voted for that particular canidate, all they know is thats the person they've seen the most of on tv, so he must be the guy that's gonna win.

If the media gave every canidate equal coverage, the race would look a lot different.

yea, this I can see.  I also think a lot of people have the need to be on the winning team.  The media goes, ooh McCain and people gravitate.  There really isn't much of a valid reason for McCain's pop to the top, it is not Iraq as they keep saying so I like your reasoning the best so far.  unfortunately it really highlights our stupidity.

[24KT]

maybe there was a secret deal made in exchange for his flip flopping on the torture thingy? {shrug}

[headhuntersix]

We get it.  You were/are in the military.  Iraq is peachy keen, everything is working.  You're privy to information that non-military men wouldn't be able to handle. 
Can you discuss something else now?

Waaa waa waa bush sucks neocns suck..911 was an inside job..surge is failing...we're killing innocents..illiegal invasion ..waaa waa waa. See I can do it to.

[headhuntersix]

Maybe the pollsters are full of shit. Maybe when a Dem pollster calls people, they don't want to be viewed as racist so they say they're voting for Obama. This is documented and has happened before.

[Decker]

Waaa waa waa bush sucks neocns suck..911 was an inside job..surge is failing...we're killing innocents..illiegal invasion ..waaa waa waa. See I can do it to.

Thanks for pointing that out.

All the progress in Iraq is window dressing.  The dead are still dead. 

Defining success in Iraq is kind of like speculating whether the rape victim enjoyed the sex.