Author Topic: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war  (Read 6412 times)

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »
Basically I'm not all that concerned if the evidence against toppling a murderous dictator isn't totally airtight. I guess that makes me a total nazi :)


He didn't murder Americans.

Do you give a shit what a n korean dictator does?  I sure don't.  Unless they fck with americans.

but, americans DID die in iraq - when we went to war with them.

saddam was the butcher, sure.  He butchered those animals that are butchering each other still to this day.  SHould 3000 men and 1 tril be spent - just to prevent him from killing them?  Fck now.  We have crime here that needs stopped.  We have hungry people HERE.  I don' want to spend US money and manpower stopping bad guys from hurting their own people in other nations, when there are still unsolved murders here in the USA.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2008, 12:46:45 PM »
wait!!!!!!!!!!  You mean...... WE'RE MARCHING AROUND THE WORLD, SEIZING RESOURCES, TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE INVADING AND OCCUPYING COUNTRIES AND KILLING EVERYONE WHO FIGHTS AGAINST IT...

NO NAZIS HERE, MOVE ALONG :P

Decker

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2008, 01:05:37 PM »
Delusional stories? I'm just recalling recent history, I'm not even implying anything. Saddam may have scrapped his program years ago, who knows? But he did not behave that way leading up to the war. He made the weapons inspectors job very difficult back in 02, it's not like he was leading them to the site where his WMD's were destroyed or anything.

....
The job was met with some mixed results in '02 but in '03 the Iraqis were leading the to the sites to which the inspectors requested access.  They were very cooperative in '03.

What kind of policy does that set for recalcitrant countries down the road?

US:  Well, you better give in to inspections or else.

Iraq:  ok, ok, come on in and inspect away.

US:  We are finding no weapons so....Attack!

That's horrible policy.

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2008, 01:24:04 PM »
Well I guess you get the facts you want when you only look at what you want to see. ::)  You guys are really good at denoucing information for coming from a left leaning source and only holding rightwing sources up as valid--I'm sure that works out real well for you guys. ::)  and you do note that past presidents did X too so there's nothing to see here, move on.

Dude I do not denounce info from a "left leaning source" and only hold "rightwing sources up as valid."  Where are you getting that from?  I actually post stories from conservative and liberal sites on this board all the time. 

That said, there is nothing wrong with pointing out the fact that a "study" was funded by a Bush hater.

I have never said past wrongs justify present wrongs.  Not true at all. 

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2008, 01:25:40 PM »
Thats fine i speak some German.....i would prefer u find neutral sites...because nope i don't believe a fucking thing the left says..they're blinded by Bush hate to the point of wishing the US to collapse.

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2008, 01:25:51 PM »
Delusional stories? I'm just recalling recent history, I'm not even implying anything. Saddam may have scrapped his program years ago, who knows? But he did not behave that way leading up to the war. He made the weapons inspectors job very difficult back in 02, it's not like he was leading them to the site where his WMD's were destroyed or anything.

But in a nutshell, yes we didn't find any WMD's and we bombed him anyway. The thing is that we're talking about a dictatorship run by the Butcher of Baghdad, he earned that nickname. People on the left reacted to the war like America invaded Switzerland or something.

Not only that but Gaddaffi was so terrified after he saw Saddam pulled out of his rathole and humiliated, that he voluntarily gave up his WMD program. Two for the price of one!

Basically I'm not all that concerned if the evidence against toppling a murderous dictator isn't totally airtight. I guess that makes me a total nazi :)

I agree with this.

Decker

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2008, 02:46:58 PM »
I agree with this.
We didn't just topple a murderous dictator.

We ravaged a country.

We destroyed families.

We ended the lives of tens of thousand of people that had no beef with us.

We crippled men, women and children..

And we pocketed as much of their loot as we could.

We destroyed their lives and livelihoods.

The facile answer that Saddam wasn't a good man and deserved to be overthrown...how does that make the US's killing of thousands of Iraqis the right thing to do?

No wonder Americans are hated worldwide.  With that kind of thoughtless arrogance, I'd say a bit of that hatred is well deserved.

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2008, 03:04:55 PM »
We didn't just topple a murderous dictator.

We ravaged a country.

We destroyed families.

We ended the lives of tens of thousand of people that had no beef with us.

We crippled men, women and children..

And we pocketed as much of their loot as we could.

We destroyed their lives and livelihoods.

The facile answer that Saddam wasn't a good man and deserved to be overthrown...how does that make the US's killing of thousands of Iraqis the right thing to do?

No wonder Americans are hated worldwide.  With that kind of thoughtless arrogance, I'd say a bit of that hatred is well deserved.




True words.  Its too easy for us to shake that part off, because of the bigger picture.

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2008, 03:16:03 PM »
Dude I do not denounce info from a "left leaning source" and only hold "rightwing sources up as valid."  Where are you getting that from?  I actually post stories from conservative and liberal sites on this board all the time. 

That said, there is nothing wrong with pointing out the fact that a "study" was funded by a Bush hater.

I have never said past wrongs justify present wrongs.  Not true at all. 
I said you guys because your cohorts do and you frequently just pop in with a yup or I agree.  You align with these guys so much, no doubt in my mind you're a righty.  Your rightwing cohorts, just like HH6, simply won't consider anything deemed leftwing.  Do they denounce rightwing sources?  Hell no...  How do you get a site sure to be deemed lefty?  any site that is critical of anything the right doesn't want to be criticized on... wow, how convenient. 

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2008, 03:17:29 PM »
We didn't just topple a murderous dictator.

We ravaged a country.

We destroyed families.

We ended the lives of tens of thousand of people that had no beef with us.

We crippled men, women and children..

And we pocketed as much of their loot as we could.

We destroyed their lives and livelihoods.

The facile answer that Saddam wasn't a good man and deserved to be overthrown...how does that make the US's killing of thousands of Iraqis the right thing to do?

No wonder Americans are hated worldwide.  With that kind of thoughtless arrogance, I'd say a bit of that hatred is well deserved.

Decker your list of American atrocities is absurd.    

Who said Saddam needed to be overthrown solely because he wasn't a good man?  Saddam needed to go for a variety of reasons, including his failure to comply with multilple UN resolutions going back to Desert Storm, the belief by much of the world that he had or was trying to acquire WMDs, the fact he had previously used WMDs on his own people, the fact he had previously invaded another country and was about to invade another before we stopped him, the fact he had unlimited resources, the fact he was sponsoring terrorism, the fact he was pilfering his country's resources and had tortured and murdered his own people.

Americans are and will always be hated by some and that hatred has nothing to do with your so-called "thoughtless arrogance."  We will always be hated by some, particularly many in the Middle East, because they want to exterminate our way of life.  

In spite of that, we lead the world in immigration.  People are dying to come here, because we are the greatest country in the history of the world.  

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2008, 03:20:16 PM »
I said you guys because your cohorts do and you frequently just pop in with a yup or I agree.  You align with these guys so much, no doubt in my mind you're a righty.  Your rightwing cohorts, just like HH6, simply won't consider anything deemed leftwing.  Do they denounce rightwing sources?  Hell no...  How do you get a site sure to be deemed lefty?  any site that is critical of anything the right doesn't want to be criticized on... wow, how convenient. 

Whatever dude.  I could care less what labels you want to use.  Doesn't matter to me. 

I consider huffington post about as liberal as they come and I visit that site everyday.  I've posted a number of articles from that site on this board, including a recent one about Huckabee's ties to the Council of Conservative Citizens.   

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2008, 03:32:47 PM »
I won't post stuff from the National Review or the Daily Standard..because while they're right..they are biased and their facts would be in doubt. U've swallowed the Leftist coolaid way to much
L

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2008, 04:23:22 PM »
Decker your list of American atrocities is absurd.    

Who said Saddam needed to be overthrown solely because he wasn't a good man?  Saddam needed to go for a variety of reasons, including his failure to comply with multilple UN resolutions going back to Desert Storm, the belief by much of the world that he had or was trying to acquire WMDs, the fact he had previously used WMDs on his own people, the fact he had previously invaded another country and was about to invade another before we stopped him, the fact he had unlimited resources, the fact he was sponsoring terrorism, the fact he was pilfering his country's resources and had tortured and murdered his own people.

Americans are and will always be hated by some and that hatred has nothing to do with your so-called "thoughtless arrogance."  We will always be hated by some, particularly many in the Middle East, because they want to exterminate our way of life. 
In spite of that, we lead the world in immigration.  People are dying to come here, because we are the greatest country in the history of the world.  


No, we are hated in the Middle East because he interfere in their affairs and countries. If the propaganda machine you are advocating were true then Norway, New Zealand and Australia would be globally despised as well and they are more 'liberal' societies than the USA's and would be more offensive to Muslims. If however you mean by our way of life, CIA sponsored assassinations, puppet dictators, toppling of elected leaders and theft and pillaging of other's resources then I would say you are right.
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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2008, 04:33:50 PM »
No, we are hated in the Middle East because he interfere in their affairs and countries. If the propaganda machine you are advocating were true then Norway, New Zealand and Australia would be globally despised as well and they are more 'liberal' societies than the USA's and would be more offensive to Muslims. If however you mean by our way of life, CIA sponsored assassinations, puppet dictators, toppling of elected leaders and theft and pillaging of other's resources then I would say you are right.

I disagree.  There are segments of the Middle East that would hate us if we didn't have a single service member in the region.  They hate our way of life.  They believe our western culture is corrupt, evil, etc.  They also hate the fact Israel is our ally and that we support them.  I'm sure our presence in the region helps fuel their hatred, but it's not the cause. 

Decker

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2008, 04:40:44 PM »

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Decker your list of American atrocities is absurd. 
Absurd?  The list is true to every word.  Please point out where I have misstated something and I'll admit it.  

Quote
Who said Saddam needed to be overthrown solely because he wasn't a good man?
Do you deny agreeing with the following statement: "But in a nutshell, yes we didn't find any WMD's and we bombed him anyway. The thing is that we're talking about a dictatorship run by the Butcher of Baghdad, he earned that nickname."

No one is saying anything about 'good men', we are discussing the aptness of overthrowing a murderous dictator, are we not?

Quote
Saddam needed to go for a variety of reasons, including his failure to comply with multilple UN resolutions going back to Desert Storm,
Did Iraq comply with inspections ultimately?  Yes:
IRAQ COOPERATING WITH DISARMAMENT PROCEDURES, BUT MANY BANNED WEAPONS
REMAIN UNACCOUNTED FOR, INSPECTORS TELL SECURITY COUNCIL http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sc7664.doc.htm

Blix asked for more time for inspections and Bush kicked him out of the country and ordered his murderous attack.

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the belief by much of the world that he had or was trying to acquire WMDs,
When has the US ever gone to war over a "belief"?

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the fact he had previously used WMDs on his own people,
With the US's support, when told of this monstrosity, Pres. Bush almost interrupted his golf game...almost, here's his thoughts on the matter: 'That's not our problem, those people have been killing each other for years.'

 
Quote
the fact he had previously invaded another country and was about to invade another before we stopped him,
Check your calendar, that was almost 20 years ago.  Are you still worried about the threat posed by Viet Nam?

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the fact he had unlimited resources,
After the US bombed his country to the stoneage and wrung out it's economic prowess with sanctions, I'd say you are overstating your point a bit.  Iraq was and is surrounded by enemies.

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the fact he was sponsoring terrorism,
Too bad it wasn't Al Qaeda he was sponsoring.  Al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11....not the guys Hussein worked with.  One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter--you could have asked Ronald Reagan about that one.

 
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the fact he was pilfering his country's resources and had tortured and murdered his own people.
Great.  That puts him in league with just about every other dictator in the world.

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Americans are and will always be hated by some and that hatred has nothing to do with your so-called "thoughtless arrogance."  We will always be hated by some, particularly many in the Middle East, because they want to exterminate our way of life.
Yes, they hate our freedoms.  BB, you are so much smarter than that.  I find that kind of justification the worst sort of political propaganda.  But to each his own.

Quote
In spite of that, we lead the world in immigration.  People are dying to come here, because we are the greatest country in the history of the world.
(fade out the Battle Hymn.....) Of course people want to come to our country.  It's a great country with lots of opportunity. 


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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2008, 04:55:59 PM »
I disagree.  There are segments of the Middle East that would hate us if we didn't have a single service member in the region.  They hate our way of life.  They believe our western culture is corrupt, evil, etc.  They also hate the fact Israel is our ally and that we support them.  I'm sure our presence in the region helps fuel their hatred, but it's not the cause. 

It is both. I am not a one trick pony. I think Islam is very dangerous AND so are our policies.

By way of analogy: Islam=Oil USA Foreign Policy=Fire

Segments....yes, but occupation is the key word. Iran tried to radicalise people over 'Western Style' habits in the 80's and it didn't work; occupation however is an exellent motivator. Yes, our unqualified support for Israel helps fuel the flames; that is why we shouldn't do it.

In any event, you ignored the main point; why aren't Australia, New Zealand and Norway globally despised for their way of life?
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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2008, 05:00:36 PM »
Absurd?  The list is true to every word.  Please point out where I have misstated something and I'll admit it.  
Do you deny agreeing with the following statement: "But in a nutshell, yes we didn't find any WMD's and we bombed him anyway. The thing is that we're talking about a dictatorship run by the Butcher of Baghdad, he earned that nickname."

No one is saying anything about 'good men', we are discussing the aptness of overthrowing a murderous dictator, are we not?
Did Iraq comply with inspections ultimately?  Yes:
IRAQ COOPERATING WITH DISARMAMENT PROCEDURES, BUT MANY BANNED WEAPONS
REMAIN UNACCOUNTED FOR, INSPECTORS TELL SECURITY COUNCIL http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sc7664.doc.htm

Blix asked for more time for inspections and Bush kicked him out of the country and ordered his murderous attack.
When has the US ever gone to war over a "belief"?
With the US's support, when told of this monstrosity, Pres. Bush almost interrupted his golf game...almost, here's his thoughts on the matter: 'That's not our problem, those people have been killing each other for years.'

 Check your calendar, that was almost 20 years ago.  Are you still worried about the threat posed by Viet Nam?
After the US bombed his country to the stoneage and wrung out it's economic prowess with sanctions, I'd say you are overstating your point a bit.  Iraq was and is surrounded by enemies.
Too bad it wasn't Al Qaeda he was sponsoring.  Al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11....not the guys Hussein worked with.  One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter--you could have asked Ronald Reagan about that one.

 Great.  That puts him in league with just about every other dictator in the world.
Yes, they hate our freedoms.  BB, you are so much smarter than that.  I find that kind of justification the worst sort of political propaganda.  But to each his own.
(fade out the Battle Hymn.....) Of course people want to come to our country.  It's a great country with lots of opportunity. 



Decker every single item you listed is wrong.  We didn't ravage Iraq, destroy families, cripple people, pocket "loot," etc.  You know it's pretty much impossible to prove a negative.  What we did was remove Saddam and his regime.  It was actually Saddam who was looting his country's resources.  I've talked to soldiers who have been in many parts of Iraq, where people live like cavemen.  They live that way because Saddam pilfered his country's resources, built numerous palaces, lived like royalty, and handed out peanuts to his people.  Saddam is the one who built torture chambers for his own people.  He is the one who gassed his own people.  

The insurgents are the ones blowing up men, women, and children.  We don't.  

Our country does not own or control Iraq's oil.  I assume that's what you mean by "loot"?  

We didn't find any WMDs after the fact.  Does that mean he didn't have them or wasn't trying to obtain them?  No.  It's possible he was fooling the entire world into believing that he was in possession of these weapons and/or trying to acquire them, but I think it's more likely he moved them out of the country before we invaded.  

I do not believe one item was necessarily reason enough to invade.  It's the totality of the circumstances IMO.  When you look at his history (all of the items I mentioned and more) and put that together with what the world believed, I think removing him was the right thing to do.  He was a unique dictator.

Some of my military friends disagree with me.  We have debated this many times.   :)  

I don't think my views on why they hate us is propaganda at all.  I've seen, for example, Iranians teach their children to hate Americans for nearly thirty years.  I've seen Middle Eastern children burn American flags for decades.  I've seen Middle Eastern children chant "death to America"!  I've listened to many in the Middle East call us "the Great Satan" for decades.  I've talked to people who have lived in the region and who say they hate our way of life and there is really nothing we can do about it except die.

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2008, 05:06:06 PM »
It is both. I am not a one trick pony. I think Islam is very dangerous AND so are our policies.

By way of analogy: Islam=Oil USA Foreign Policy=Fire

Segments....yes, but occupation is the key word. Iran tried to radicalise people over 'Western Style' habits in the 80's and it didn't work; occupation however is an exellent motivator. Yes, our unqualified support for Israel helps fuel the flames; that is why we shouldn't do it.

In any event, you ignored the main point; why aren't Australia, New Zealand and Norway globally despised for their way of life?

Australia, New Zealand, and Norway don't have near the combination of prosperity, influence, and power of the U.S.  We are essentially the center of the world.  That is true of our economy, entertainment, education, military, freedom, opportunity, etc.  Part of our problem is we are the biggest, baddest kid on the block.  They also don't have people flocking to the borders like we do. 

Also, do those countries provide foreign aid to Israel? 
 

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2008, 05:40:17 PM »
Quote
Decker every single item you listed is wrong.  We didn't ravage Iraq, destroy families, cripple people, pocket "loot," etc.
So those 80,000 Iraqis just died falling out of the bathtub?  And the children lost their limbs playing stickball, and the oil PSAs just magically appeared giving foreign companies the bulk of the revenue.

But for the US led invasion, those things do not happen in Iraq.

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You know it's pretty much impossible to prove a negative.  What we did was remove Saddam and his regime.  It was actually Saddam who was looting his country's resources.
And we blew up those infrastructural resources and rebuilt them at a nice profit.

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I've talked to soldiers who have been in many parts of Iraq, where people live like cavemen.  They live that way because Saddam pilfered his country's resources, built numerous palaces, lived like royalty, and handed out peanuts to his people.
7 out of 10 Iraqis still have no access to a steady supply of clean potable water.  Iraq was generating 5 megawatts of electricity before the invasion.  Now it's generating about 4 megawatts.  The Electricity Ministry puts current demand at about 7 megawatts.  Major cities used to have 9 hours of electricity per day, today they have about 3.

About 80% of Iraqis still lack decent sanitation.  In other words, the Iraqi people had higher living standards living under Hussein than they do under US occupation.
 
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Saddam is the one who built torture chambers for his own people.  He is the one who gassed his own people.
Torture...does that ring a bell...Alberto?  Yes BB, Hussein was a bad man.  How does that give the US the right to do what it did?

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The insurgents are the ones blowing up men, women, and children.  We don't.
No, our guns shoot magic sedative bullets and our mortars are really puffball sleepy bombs.  I think you know better than that.  

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Our country does not own or control Iraq's oil.  I assume that's what you mean by "loot"? 
Right.  The profit and royalty split between the foreign oil companies and the Iraqi people were entered into willingly and fairly.

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We didn't find any WMDs after the fact.
We didn't find any WMDs before the fact either.

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Does that mean he didn't have them or wasn't trying to obtain them?  No.  It's possible he was fooling the entire world into believing that he was in possession of these weapons and/or trying to acquire them, but I think it's more likely he moved them out of the country before we invaded. 
It's a good thing we had the worldclass scientist WMD inspectors in Iraq BEFORE the invasion to show that Iraq indeed had no WMDs.

But I do like your conspiracy theories.


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I do not believe one item was necessarily reason enough to invade.  It's the totality of the circumstances IMO.  When you look at his history (all of the items I mentioned and more) and put that together with what the world believed, I think removing him was the right thing to do.  He was a unique dictator.
Are beliefs of wrongdoing and, let's face it, the harmless 'threat' posed by the tiny Iraq country, reasons enough to go to war?  I look at the pictures of the destruction that, but for the US led invasion, would not have happened and I think, "No."
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Some of my military friends disagree with me.  We have debated this many times.   :) 
You should listen to your friends (like me).

Quote
I don't think my views on why they hate us is propaganda at all.  I've seen, for example, Iranians teach their children to hate Americans for nearly thirty years.  I've seen Middle Eastern children burn American flags for decades.  I've seen Middle Eastern children chant "death to America"!  I've listened to many in the Middle East call us "the Great Satan" for decades.  I've talked to people who have lived in the region and who say they hate our way of life and there is really nothing we can do about it except die.
It is understandable that the Iranians have hated us for over 30 years...it's been 40+ years since the US helped install the murderous Shah of Iran as their leader.

Would you warm up to a country that overthrew your government and installed a murderous dictatorial strongman?

I know I wouldn't.

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2008, 07:31:28 PM »
Australia, New Zealand, and Norway don't have near the combination of prosperity, influence, and power of the U.S.  We are essentially the center of the world.  That is true of our economy, entertainment, education, military, freedom, opportunity, etc.  Part of our problem is we are the biggest, baddest kid on the block.  They also don't have people flocking to the borders like we do. 

Also, do those countries provide foreign aid to Israel? 
 

I agree, they do not provide aid to Israel and it is something we should really stop doing; we should stop giving aid to all countries. The epicentre theory is a silly one. It is much simpler; they do not intervene abroad, invade other countries, assassinate elected leaders and pillage other nations; if they did, they would be targets as well.
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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2008, 07:34:52 PM »
Decker every single item you listed is wrong.  We didn't ravage Iraq, destroy families, cripple people, pocket "loot," etc.  You know it's pretty much impossible to prove a negative.  What we did was remove Saddam and his regime.  It was actually Saddam who was looting his country's resources.  I've talked to soldiers who have been in many parts of Iraq, where people live like cavemen.  They live that way because Saddam pilfered his country's resources, built numerous palaces, lived like royalty, and handed out peanuts to his people.  Saddam is the one who built torture chambers for his own people.  He is the one who gassed his own people.  

The insurgents are the ones blowing up men, women, and children.  We don't.  

Our country does not own or control Iraq's oil.  I assume that's what you mean by "loot"?  

We didn't find any WMDs after the fact.  Does that mean he didn't have them or wasn't trying to obtain them?  No.  It's possible he was fooling the entire world into believing that he was in possession of these weapons and/or trying to acquire them, but I think it's more likely he moved them out of the country before we invaded.  

I do not believe one item was necessarily reason enough to invade.  It's the totality of the circumstances IMO.  When you look at his history (all of the items I mentioned and more) and put that together with what the world believed, I think removing him was the right thing to do.  He was a unique dictator.

Some of my military friends disagree with me.  We have debated this many times.   :)  

I don't think my views on why they hate us is not propaganda at all.  I've seen, for example, Iranians teach their children to hate Americans for nearly thirty years.  I've seen Middle Eastern children burn American flags for decades.  I've seen Middle Eastern children chant "death to America"!  I've listened to many in the Middle East call us "the Great Satan" for decades.  I've talked to people who have lived in the region and who say they hate our way of life and there is really nothing we can do about it except die.


Man, if you really took the time to listen to men like UN Inspector Scott Ritter and paid more attention to any media other than the ones that come out of America's major outlets you would see things in a whole new light. Your looking at things through pin hole shades and I don't know if it's more sad or frustrating to hear people still believe such notions as the ones you mention in some of your posts.

There are fanatics in every culture and country, you just happen to get your information from one group of them, don't let it blind you to the truth.

headhuntersix

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2008, 08:03:18 PM »
Mr. Ritter wanted to meet the 14 year old girl he was chatting online with at a local Burger King. Except that the 14 year old girl was a cop pretending to be a 14 year old girl. He was actually warned about this twice, and had the records sealed. He got away with it for a while because his first name is 'William', but he goes by 'Scott', so it didn't click with the media when a person named "William Ritter" was arrested for attempted solicitation of sex from a minor...that Scott Ritter or this one....

Scott Ritter, appearing with journalist Dahr Jamail yesterday in Washington State, dropped two shocking bombshells in a talk delivered to a packed house in Olympia’s Capitol Theater. The ex-Marine turned UNSCOM weapons inspector said that George W. Bush has "signed off" on plans to bomb Iran in June 2005, and claimed the U.S. manipulated the results of the recent Jan. 30 elections in Iraq.

or perhaps its this one...


Former U. N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter has spent the past few years imagining himself a great geopolitical riddle, independent and unfathomable. Like a half-baked military version of Arianna Huffington, he made his fame as a flamboyant dissenter. Now, revelations about a benefactor may force him to stop playing Peter Pan and grow up: It's time for him to decide whether he wants to go down in history as a shill, or a tool.

The big news (if sadly predictable) was the confirmation that the financier of Ritter's Iraq propaganda film "In Shifting Sands" was among an elite cabal that received "oil allocations" from the U.N.'s oil-for-food program. The confirmation comes from Shakir Khafaji himself, the Iraqi businessman in Detroit who set up Ritter with a $400,000 "loan" to make his film and also helped him get interviews with members of the Baathist regime.

All this was happening about the time Khafaji was evidently benefiting under a program in which Saddam Hussein's regime gave its external friends and supporters vouchers for Iraqi oil at below-market prices. The vouchers could be flipped for instant wealth without ever touching oil. This systematic perversion of the U.N.'s oil-for-food program was first revealed in the Iraqi press, based on found documents, and the scandal has now reached to the highest ranks of the U.N.

It also sheds a new, though unsurprising light, on Ritter's strange film.

The film, remember, caused a great stir in 2001 for its claim that the Iraqi regime had been "defanged.'" Some wondered aloud if Ritter was acting of his own free will. Three years before, in 1998, the former Marine had quit his job as weapons inspector in an indignant tantrum, saying he could not continue his work if the Clinton administration was not willing to pursue a showdown with the recalcitrant Iraqi regime.



L

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2008, 12:50:29 AM »
Mr. Ritter wanted to meet the 14 year old girl he was chatting online with at a local Burger King. Except that the 14 year old girl was a cop pretending to be a 14 year old girl. He was actually warned about this twice, and had the records sealed. He got away with it for a while because his first name is 'William', but he goes by 'Scott', so it didn't click with the media when a person named "William Ritter" was arrested for attempted solicitation of sex from a minor...that Scott Ritter or this one....

Scott Ritter, appearing with journalist Dahr Jamail yesterday in Washington State, dropped two shocking bombshells in a talk delivered to a packed house in Olympia’s Capitol Theater. The ex-Marine turned UNSCOM weapons inspector said that George W. Bush has "signed off" on plans to bomb Iran in June 2005, and claimed the U.S. manipulated the results of the recent Jan. 30 elections in Iraq.

or perhaps its this one...


Former U. N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter has spent the past few years imagining himself a great geopolitical riddle, independent and unfathomable. Like a half-baked military version of Arianna Huffington, he made his fame as a flamboyant dissenter. Now, revelations about a benefactor may force him to stop playing Peter Pan and grow up: It's time for him to decide whether he wants to go down in history as a shill, or a tool.

The big news (if sadly predictable) was the confirmation that the financier of Ritter's Iraq propaganda film "In Shifting Sands" was among an elite cabal that received "oil allocations" from the U.N.'s oil-for-food program. The confirmation comes from Shakir Khafaji himself, the Iraqi businessman in Detroit who set up Ritter with a $400,000 "loan" to make his film and also helped him get interviews with members of the Baathist regime.

All this was happening about the time Khafaji was evidently benefiting under a program in which Saddam Hussein's regime gave its external friends and supporters vouchers for Iraqi oil at below-market prices. The vouchers could be flipped for instant wealth without ever touching oil. This systematic perversion of the U.N.'s oil-for-food program was first revealed in the Iraqi press, based on found documents, and the scandal has now reached to the highest ranks of the U.N.

It also sheds a new, though unsurprising light, on Ritter's strange film.

The film, remember, caused a great stir in 2001 for its claim that the Iraqi regime had been "defanged.'" Some wondered aloud if Ritter was acting of his own free will. Three years before, in 1998, the former Marine had quit his job as weapons inspector in an indignant tantrum, saying he could not continue his work if the Clinton administration was not willing to pursue a showdown with the recalcitrant Iraqi regime.






source?

Decker

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2008, 08:02:09 AM »
How does impugning Scott Ritter's character change the fact that his statements jibe with the WMD inspectors reportts and not with the pro-war Bush Administration's claims re WMDs in Iraq?

Isn't objectivity the essence of truth?

headhuntersix

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Re: Study: Bush, officials made false statements prior to Iraq war
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2008, 08:15:39 AM »
Follow the money....He  had reasons to ignore certain things...he got money from a bathist to fund his movie....connect the dots..maybe they don't add up but if this guy was doing something froma pro-Bush pro Republican angle then u Libs would be all over this. As for my sources..i cut and pasted from a number of media outlets....
L