Author Topic: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains  (Read 4200 times)

OzmO

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Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« on: March 26, 2008, 08:07:22 PM »
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080327/D8VLG8JG1.html

Mar 26, 10:17 PM (ET)

By ROBERT BURNS


WASHINGTON (AP) - Behind the Pentagon's closed doors, U.S. military leaders told President Bush Wednesday they are worried about the Iraq war's mounting strain on troops and their families. But they indicated they'd go along with a brief halt in pulling out troops this summer.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff did say senior commanders in Iraq should make more frequent assessments of security conditions, an idea that appeared aimed at increasing pressure for more rapid troop reductions.

The chiefs' concern is that U.S. forces are being worn thin, compromising the Pentagon's ability to handle crises elsewhere in the world.


In the war zone itself, two more American soldiers were killed Wednesday in separate attacks in Baghdad, raising the U.S. death toll to at least 4,003, according to an Associated Press count. Volleys of rockets also slammed into Baghdad's Green Zone for the third day this week, and the U.S. Embassy said three Americans were seriously wounded. At least eight Iraqis were killed elsewhere in the capital by rounds that apparently fell short.

Wednesday's 90-minute Pentagon session, held in a secure conference room known as "the Tank," was arranged by Defense Secretary Robert Gates to provide Bush an additional set of military views as he prepares to decide how to proceed in Iraq once his troop buildup, which began in 2007, runs its course by July.

"Armed with all that, the president must now decide the way ahead in Iraq," said Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell. The discussion covered not only Iraq but Afghanistan, where violence has spiked, and broader military matters, said Morrell, who briefed reporters without giving details of the discussion. Some specifics were provided by defense officials, commenting on condition of anonymity in order to speak more freely.

The Joint Chiefs are particularly concerned about Afghanistan and an increasingly active Taliban insurgency.

The United States has about 31,000 troops in Afghanistan and 156,000 in Iraq.

U.S. forces in Iraq peaked at 20 brigades last year and are to be cut to 15 brigades, with a total of about 140,000 combat and support troops, by the end of July. A key question facing Bush is whether security conditions will have improved sufficiently by then to justify more reductions.

One of the leading advocates of Bush's troop buildup last year, military historian Frederick Kagan of the American Enterprise Institute, said in an interview Wednesday that security conditions in Iraq, while better, are not good enough to justify any commitment to troop reductions beyond July.

"The military reality is that it's virtually inconceivable that it will make sense to draw down below 15 brigades this year," Kagan said.

Gates has said he would like to see the total drop to 10 brigades by the end of this year, but that now looks unlikely.

Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, has proposed what is commonly called a "pause" to assess the impact of having withdrawn five combat brigades since December. He has argued that it would be reckless to shrink the American force so rapidly that the gains achieved over the past year are compromised or lost entirely.

Bush is expected to endorse Petraeus' approach. If, as expected, Petraeus is given until August or September to weigh the effects of the current round of reductions, then it is unlikely that the force would get much below 15 brigades by the time Bush leaves office in January.

Bush is unlikely to announce his decision until after Petraeus and the top U.S. diplomat in Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, return to Washington next month to report to Congress.

The Joint Chiefs, who do not command troops but are legally responsible for ensuring the fitness of the forces they provide to commanders, have grown increasingly concerned that the weight of five-plus years of war in Iraq could create severe, long-term problems, particularly for the Army and Marine Corps.

In their session with Bush, the chiefs laid out their concerns about the health of the U.S. force, several defense officials said. Bush was accompanied by his chief of staff, Joshua Bolten; his national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, and Vice President Dick Cheney.

"The conversations today with the Joint Chiefs were much broader than just Iraq," Hadley said later. "It was a step-back look of what are the challenges we face here in the next decade."

A senior administration official said the chiefs generally are in sync with Petraeus on slowing the pace of troop reductions.

Morrell said Bush is "constantly asking the Joint Chiefs about the health of the force, about retention rates, about family life, and so that was a large part of the conversation today."

The session was led by Navy Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He presented the consensus view of the chiefs of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps on Iraq strategy.

Mullen and Gates have said repeatedly that in addition to reducing troop levels in Iraq, they want to shorten tour lengths for soldiers from 15 months to 12 months as soon as possible. A decision to do that is expected, perhaps shortly after Bush reaffirms that the number brigades in Iraq will be cut to 15 by July. The Army calculates that at that point it could drop tours to 12 months and still give units at least 12 months at home to recover, retrain and rearm before deploying again.

Morrell said a decision on shortening tour lengths would be made by Gates in consultation with Bush.

"We are not there yet," Morrell said.

Shortly after they Petraeus and Crocker reported to Congress last September Bush announced the decision to reduce the number of combat brigades from 20 to 15.

At the time, Petraeus said additional cuts would be made but that he needed to wait until this spring to recommend a timetable. Since September, violence in Iraq has ebbed and U.S. and Iraqi casualties have declined markedly, although violence has jumped in recent weeks.

The president is to give a speech Thursday in Ohio on the political and economic situation in Iraq.

OzmO

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 08:10:42 PM »
The military should just read the Stars and Stripes.  If they did that they wouldn't say this.

Would it stand to reason that if we weren't already stretched thin that we could rotate troops faster and in shorter (12 month)  TOD's?   ::) ::) ::)

But as brix, likes to say:  We are no where near over extended.

 ::) ::)

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 08:46:55 PM »
But as brix, likes to say:  We are no where near over extended.


classic stuff right there!

calmus

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 10:25:53 PM »

classic stuff right there!

He's a "loss prevention engineer" for CVS or Walgreen's. Cut him some slack.

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 10:34:41 PM »
The military should just read the Stars and Stripes.  If they did that they wouldn't say this.

Would it stand to reason that if we weren't already stretched thin that we could rotate troops faster and in shorter (12 month)  TOD's?   ::) ::) ::)

But as brix, likes to say:  We are no where near over extended.

 ::) ::)

I remember when six and nine month deployments were considered extremely long.   :-\

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 10:40:09 PM »
He's a "loss prevention engineer" for CVS or Walgreen's. Cut him some slack.

Is that better or worse then the "pissing on signs" position that you hold?

calmus

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 10:41:14 PM »
Is that better or worse then the "pissing on signs" position that you hold?

All the signs are gone  >:(  I miss them.  :(

headhuntersix

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2008, 06:46:45 AM »
This is mostly Rummy's fault...the Services wanted to grow the military in 2001 and he blocked it. We'd be much farther along then we are now if that idiot hadn't stood in the way. Hell we might not even be in Iraq.
L

OzmO

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 10:51:04 AM »
This is mostly Rummy's fault...the Services wanted to grow the military in 2001 and he blocked it. We'd be much farther along then we are now if that idiot hadn't stood in the way. Hell we might not even be in Iraq.

In some ways this all might be a good thing HH6,  if we weren't over extended as we are, we might already be at war with Iran.

And even though Iraq was a mistake as you say, we still are reaping some benefits from it now and in the future if we can hold on to it.

War-Horse

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 08:56:47 PM »
In some ways this all might be a good thing HH6,  if we weren't over extended as we are, we might already be at war with Iran.

And even though Iraq was a mistake as you say, we still are reaping some benefits from it now and in the future if we can hold on to it.



The first part, I agree.    As for the second part: In what way is 12 billion dollars a month a benefit to us?

OzmO

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2008, 08:55:32 AM »


The first part, I agree.    As for the second part: In what way is 12 billion dollars a month a benefit to us?

This way:

We are not in a ground war with Iran also becuase of perceived threats or our stupid public being brainwashed as to the level of threat Iran is.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2008, 10:43:50 AM »
Aw.. looks like I'm deep in your head Oz. :D

Just cause I don't think we're overextended now do you assume I think we could never become it?  And I agree that from a morale stand point we might very well be pushing it.  But from a capability standpoint we are not.

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2008, 10:54:45 AM »
Aw.. looks like I'm deep in your head Oz. :D

Just cause I don't think we're overextended now do you assume I think we could never become it?  And I agree that from a morale stand point we might very well be pushing it.  But from a capability standpoint we are not.

I'm not surprised you'd say something like that becuase to address the real issue would cause you to face the truth.

It's rare that i see anyone give such and idiotic statement as you did and insists on trying to back it up with the S & S and your General friend.  And now we have the JC's saying it. 

It only proves how much of an ignorant statement that was.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2008, 11:31:23 AM »
It's rare that i see anyone give such and idiotic statement as you did and insists on trying to back it up with the S & S and your General friend.  And now we have the JC's saying it. 


No.. this is another lie. 

They are NOT saying we are over extended.  They are saying it is a concern and something that has to be considered.  That is all and I completely agree.  Until we fail to complete a mission because we cannot support it due to being somewhere else it cannot be said that we are over extended.  As long as we maintain our capability than we are nowhere near it. ;D

You libs are amazing.. you try and twist every little thing, don't you?

OzmO

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2008, 11:50:44 AM »

As long as we maintain our capability than we are nowhere near it. ;D


That's pretty stupid.

How far will you go to spin your originally dumb statement?

Is your middle name "Clinton"?

We are barely maintaining our capability and all indications point to us having problems handling another crisis or conflict.   

On top of that, even a 13 year boy, could tell you it's not militarily or strategically sound to think as long as we maintain our capability to address our current missions we are nowhere near over extended.

We are over extended.   And no, we not failing to meet or address current mission, but we are only doing that by extending TOD's, and cutting budgets everywhere.

What's funny, is now, even true conservatives, in the military, on this board call Iraq a mistake.

But, hey, Brix. I respect you for your loyalty.  The world is always in need of people like you, who refuse to have thoughts outside a particular political alignment. 


Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2008, 12:13:34 PM »
That's pretty stupid.

How far will you go to spin your originally dumb statement?

Is your middle name "Clinton"?

We are barely maintaining our capability and all indications point to us having problems handling another crisis or conflict.   

On top of that, even a 13 year boy, could tell you it's not militarily or strategically sound to think as long as we maintain our capability to address our current missions we are nowhere near over extended.

We are over extended.   And no, we not failing to meet or address current mission, but we are only doing that by extending TOD's, and cutting budgets everywhere.

What's funny, is now, even true conservatives, in the military, on this board call Iraq a mistake.

But, hey, Brix. I respect you for your loyalty.  The world is always in need of people like you, who refuse to have thoughts outside a particular political alignment. 



Great job avoiding my point... btw.

The war is not a mistake because a few people who claim to be conservative have buckled to an anti war onslaught brought on by the media, democrats, and people like you who are against it merely because it serves as another reason to hate Bush.  That's all this is and all it has been.  You are the same people who don't blink an eye about the waste libs in gov't have caused over the last 20 years.

And once we really finish in Iraq everyone will be better for it and you won't have a leg to stand on.  Maybe that's why everyone wants to call it quits? hmm..

OzmO

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2008, 12:34:06 PM »
Great job avoiding my point... btw.
 

What point?   That we are no where near over extended in the face of the JC's eluding to?

Quote
The war is not a mistake because a few people who claim to be conservative have buckled to an anti war onslaught brought on by the media, democrats, and people like you who are against it merely because it serves as another reason to hate Bush.  That's all this is and all it has been.

Is that why you think people think the war is a mistake becuase they "hate" Bush?  You thinking is amazing, unbelievable!

Quote
You are the same people who don't blink an eye about the waste libs in gov't have caused over the last 20 years.

Look around the forum there are charts somewhere showing the repubs spend much more.

But don't get that confused, which you most certainly will becuase your programming says so, that i endorse more government spending.  I think we could accomplish everything we ant by spending exactly or less than we do now, which will include universal health care for children under 18, flat tax or sales tax, less on welfare, more on education etc...

But then again anything other than full approval of Bush is "Liberal" right?   ::)

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And once we really finish in Iraq everyone will be better for it and you won't have a leg to stand on.  Maybe that's why everyone wants to call it quits? hmm..

Show me where i've advocated leaving Iraq....

Show me.

You can't becuase i haven't said we should. 

talk about missing points, replacing them, or avoiding them..... ::)




War-Horse

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2008, 01:27:39 PM »
I have seriously never run across anyone as dense as brixy.  He tries so hard that its embarrassing.   He relies on labeling "Libs" and running away.

Amazing that you warp and mis-use all that Ozmo has stated.


Brixy, you need to open your mind to other discussions on matters.  Good luck in the future, Youre going to need it. :-\

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2008, 01:38:23 PM »
What point?   That we are no where near over extended in the face of the JC's eluding to?

That you twist and spin everything to support your POV.  Includes lying which you have done multiple times.


Is that why you think people think the war is a mistake becuase they "hate" Bush?  You thinking is amazing, unbelievable!

No, the people that hate bush and have a vendetta against him have put out so much propaganda that it's easy to see why even some conservatives doubt the war even when the facts support what we are doing there.

Look around the forum there are charts somewhere showing the repubs spend much more.

But don't get that confused, which you most certainly will becuase your programming says so, that i endorse more government spending.  I think we could accomplish everything we ant by spending exactly or less than we do now, which will include universal health care for children under 18, flat tax or sales tax, less on welfare, more on education etc...

But then again anything other than full approval of Bush is "Liberal" right?   ::)

Correct, and eveytime the democrats take office they use that as an excuse, not to fix the problem, but to take more money from the american people.

And I am not looking for Bush approval.. I believe in conservatism plain and simple.

Show me where i've advocated leaving Iraq....

Show me.

You can't becuase i haven't said we should. 

talk about missing points, replacing them, or avoiding them..... ::)


You didn't and I didn't say you did.  More spin, huh?

That's the general feeling I get from most on this board who also happen to be leftists (and some who are not).. and it comes from how misled people have been about the war.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2008, 01:39:42 PM »
I have seriously never run across anyone as dense as brixy.  He tries so hard that its embarrassing.   He relies on labeling "Libs" and running away.

Amazing that you warp and mis-use all that Ozmo has stated.


Brixy, you need to open your mind to other discussions on matters.  Good luck in the future, Youre going to need it. :-\

I haven't run away from anything..

but I know that without lying you have no argument, so carry on.

OzmO

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2008, 01:56:31 PM »
That you twist and spin everything to support your POV.  Includes lying which you have done multiple times.

Show me. 

Quote
No, the people that hate bush and have a vendetta against him have put out so much propaganda that it's easy to see why even some conservatives doubt the war even when the facts support what we are doing there.

Wow, very twisted.

Facts like the WMD's?

Quote
Correct, and eveytime the democrats take office they use that as an excuse, not to fix the problem, but to take more money from the american people.

And I am not looking for Bush approval.. I believe in conservatism plain and simple.

And you think they do this becuase they want to take more money from the American people?   and why do you think they want to do that?

Because they are evil?

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You didn't and I didn't say you did.  More spin, huh?

Quote
Maybe that's why everyone wants to call it quits? hmm..

Your brainwashing is showing again.   You either think EVERYONE wants to leave Iraq or I do becuase you where talking to me when you said it.

Which is it brix? 

Quote
That's the general feeling I get from most on this board who also happen to be leftists (and some who are not).. and it comes from how misled people have been about the war.

You think most of the people in this board are leftists?   Would you consider them Commies too?

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2008, 02:49:40 PM »
Just cause I don't think we're overextended now

There are many generals who have said we're overtaxed now.

ARE THEY WRONG, BRIX?

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2008, 12:06:54 PM »
Show me. 

Wow, very twisted.

Facts like the WMD's?

And you think they do this becuase they want to take more money from the American people?   and why do you think they want to do that?

Because they are evil?

Your brainwashing is showing again.   You either think EVERYONE wants to leave Iraq or I do becuase you where talking to me when you said it.

Which is it brix? 

You think most of the people in this board are leftists?   Would you consider them Commies too?

You give an article which says the topic of over extending our troops was discussed then you turn around and try to use that as proof that we are exactly that.  Just because it is an issue and has to be taken into consideration doesn't mean it is true.  But you lie just to support your argument.  And yes, you lied in the last thread we had this discussion as well.  You tried to say I blamed the entirety of 9/11 on Clinton among other things I don't remember off the top of my head.

We had many reasons to kill Saddam which have been discussed at length.  If your golden boy Clinton had marched on Baghdad we'd have a very different attitude in the media than we do now.  But because everyone is so hell bent on hating Bush as much as possible we have what we have.  That's not to say he hasn't made mistakes but there has been no objectivity in reporting when it comes to Bush.

Democrats/liberals want more power, more funding, more $$$.  They want bigger gov't than any conservative as they see themselves benefitting from it.  They want everyone to be dependant on gov't and therefore dependant on them.  They want control.  They despise the constitution and individual rights along with anyone who disagrees with them.  I won't go so far as to say they are evil but they are definitely bad news.

I know you don't want to pull out now because you see that we can't.  But you will continue to use it as a chess piece to throw more and more blame on Bush and conservatives who support him.  This board is far more liberal than otherwise and that is why most people on here want to leave Iraq.  Nothing more than internet critics with no understanding of war, freedom, and what the US is and has been all about and trying to do in the middle east.  That's not to say there aren't other less admirable reasons to be in Iraq but nevertheless there are many reasons to be there.  And yes, liberalism is socialism. 

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2008, 12:11:14 PM »
There are many generals who have said we're overtaxed now.

ARE THEY WRONG, BRIX?

My opinion is that we are overtaxed.. but that is in no way based on what any general has said.

OzmO

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Re: Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2008, 04:50:20 PM »
You give an article which says the topic of over extending our troops was discussed then you turn around and try to use that as proof that we are exactly that.  Just because it is an issue and has to be taken into consideration doesn't mean it is true.  But you lie just to support your argument.  And yes, you lied in the last thread we had this discussion as well.  You tried to say I blamed the entirety of 9/11 on Clinton among other things I don't remember off the top of my head.

We had many reasons to kill Saddam which have been discussed at length.  If your golden boy Clinton had marched on Baghdad we'd have a very different attitude in the media than we do now.  But because everyone is so hell bent on hating Bush as much as possible we have what we have.  That's not to say he hasn't made mistakes but there has been no objectivity in reporting when it comes to Bush.


I know you don't want to pull out now because you see that we can't.  But you will continue to use it as a chess piece to throw more and more blame on Bush and conservatives who support him.  This board is far more liberal than otherwise and that is why most people on here want to leave Iraq.  Nothing more than internet critics with no understanding of war, freedom, and what the US is and has been all about and trying to do in the middle east.  That's not to say there aren't other less admirable reasons to be in Iraq but nevertheless there are many reasons to be there.  And yes, liberalism is socialism. 


How do i lie to support my argument?   I provided a current article based on statements by JC's.  I pointed out TOD's, which you are too scared to address, i pointed out budget cuts, and personal information.   You provided the Stars and stripes and your general friend to support your statement that we are not nowhere near over extended which got to be in the top 10 stupidest statements and back up ever on this forum.    ;D

Now you are telling yourself fairy tales about me to support your own bias.

Did you or did you not say Clinton let 9/11 happen?

Never saw it.. and I wouldn't need it to show how Clinton allowed 9/11 to happen.

so he is to blame in the context of allowing 9/11 or not?  Or is OBL's Mom also to blame for not aborting OBL?

Like i said you are worse than a liberal spin clerk.

So I'm still waiting for where you show me i lied.   But don't get too worked up over it, I'd hate you to blame me for shattering your illusions about the state of our military and some how connect it to Clinton.

If my golden boy marched on Bagdad?    ::) You mean if your Golden boy's father marched on Bagdad.

Is this another lame attempt to "blame Clinton" now for the Iraq mess?

Now before you get yourself all worked up, just answer the question.  Because in your line of thinking, We should be blaming Eve for having offspring that would eventually lead to Clinton and OBL.

Quote
Democrats/liberals want more power, more funding, more $$$.  They want bigger gov't than any conservative as they see themselves benefitting from it.  They want everyone to be dependant on gov't and therefore dependant on them.  They want control.  They despise the constitution and individual rights along with anyone who disagrees with them.  I won't go so far as to say they are evil but they are definitely bad news.

I agree with some of this, but some of it is needed for balance, as we've seen what a  lack regulation can do with our current housing and lending market.

Quote
I know you don't want to pull out now because you see that we can't.  But you will continue to use it as a chess piece to throw more and more blame on Bush and conservatives who support him.  This board is far more liberal than otherwise and that is why most people on here want to leave Iraq.  Nothing more than internet critics with no understanding of war, freedom, and what the US is and has been all about and trying to do in the middle east.  That's not to say there aren't other less admirable reasons to be in Iraq but nevertheless there are many reasons to be there.  And yes, liberalism is socialism. 

As a chess piece?  We are in this mess because of Bush's poor decision making.  Plain and simple.

Tool is, tool thinks, tool does.  That's about sums it up.