Vince Basile: You seem to harbour much bitterness towards Chick!

[mass 04]

I hope the nursing home revokes Vince's internet privileges soon.

[OneMoreRep]

I hope the nursing home revokes Vince's internet privileges soon.

That was actually pretty good.   

[Vince B]

As a former PE teacher and now gym owner I am ashamed that I needed to take steroids to win a national title. I met up with Hans Gensow a few years ago and he was disgusted that I took drugs. The look on his face made me ashamed I used anything. Hans was one of the guys who inspired me in Kamloops to start bodybuilding. He and Eric Frolek were from Germany and made a big impression with their natural physiques in that town. They were good athletes and looked like Adonis and Hercules at Riverside Park.

You, Bob, on the other hand are not ashamed of using drugs and perhaps you injected substances into muscles to enhance them. That seems to be a widespread practice to get the rear delts, calves and other muscles bigger. That is the opposite of bodybuilding.

In my day it wasn't illegal to use steroids but boy was it cheating. No one admitted to using in those days because it was so unethical. That is why insiders kept knowledge to themselves and as long as everyone there was using they wouldn't dob in the others. Those of us who tried and tried to get as big as the top guys eventually gave up because the gap was too wide. You have to realize that Sergio, Arnold and Casey Viator were contemporaries of mine and what huge guys they were. Did drugs give them some of their size? Well, we will never know what contributed precisely to their physiques. They still stand out today for being big guys. The rest of us looked on in awe but most of us were reluctant to try steroids because of the risk of getting side effects like cancer. No one in those days knew what the long term effects would be so it was like playing Russian roulette and not title or trophy was worth that risk. I read about steroids in the professional journals and there was no conclusively evidence that they worked. We heard that anecdotedly they did make one stronger and bigger. If you were really strong or big people suspected that maybe you were secretly using steroids.

Eventually there comes a time in a career when the hard decision has to be made about trying shortcuts to get larger. I pity the current champions because if what many are telling us it is downright dangerous and thus insane to fool around with that many drugs at such high dosages. To actually inject substances into muscles to make them larger is the end of bodybuilding as far as I am concerned. How can that practice be justified?

I can see that Bob is trying to maintain his dignity and credibility but he cannot hope to do that. Look at the trouble he goes to in threads that mention drugs. He loves to get the last quip in thinking he is impressing the guys here. Well, if these guys are drug users then he is defending all of them so gets some support.

Bob, do yourself a favour and disassociate yourself from the professionals. Oh, I know your income might be in jeopardy. Anyway, nice thought. It would be a real pity if the house of professional bodybuilding came crashing down in a big sordid heap.

[Chick]

As a former PE teacher and now gym owner I am ashamed that I needed to take steroids to win a national title. I met up with Hans Gensow a few years ago and he was disgusted that I took drugs. The look on his face made me ashamed I used anything. Hans was one of the guys who inspired me in Kamloops to start bodybuilding. He and Eric Frolek were from Germany and made a big impression with their natural physiques in that town. They were good athletes and look like Adonis and Hercules at Riverside Park.

You, Bob, on the other hand are not ashamed of using drugs and perhaps you injected substances into muscles to enhance them. That seems to be a widespread practice to get the rear delts, calves and other muscles bigger. That is the opposite of bodybuilding.

In my day it wasn't illegal to use steroids but boy was it cheating. No one admitted to using in those days because it was so unethical. That is why insiders kept knowledge to themselves and as long as everyone there was using they wouldn't dob in the others. Those of us who tried and tried to get as big as the top guys eventually gave up because the gap was too wide. You have to realize that Sergio, Arnold and Casey Viator were contemporaries of mine and what huge guys they were. Did drugs give them some of their size? Well, we will never know what contributed precisely to their physiques. They still stand out today for being big guys. The rest of us looked on in awe but most of us were reluctant to try steroids because of the risk of getting side effects like cancer. No one in those days knew what the long term effects would be so it was like playing Russian roulette and not title or trophy was worth that risk. I read about steroids in the professional journals and there was no conclusively evidence that they worked. We heard that anecdotedly they did make one stronger and bigger. If you were really strong or big people suspected that maybe you were secretly using steroids.

Eventually there comes a time in a career when the hard decision has to be made about trying shortcuts to get larger. I pity the current champions because if what many are telling us it is downright dangerous and thus insane to fool around with that many drugs at such high dosages. To actually inject substances into muscles to make them larger is the end of bodybuilding as far as I am concerned. How can that practice be justified?

I can see that Bob is trying to maintain his dignity and credibility but he cannot hope to do that. Look at the trouble he goes to in threads that mention drugs. He loves to get the last quip in thinking he is impressing the guys here. Well, if these guys are drug users then he is defending all of them so gets some support.

Bob, do yourself a favour and disassociate yourself from the professionals. Oh, I know your income might be in jeopardy. Anyway, nice thought. It would be a real pity if the house of professional bodybuilding came crashing down in a big sordid heap.

I didn't think you would have a god answer to my post...how could you?

Fact is...guys like YOU set the tone for the future pro's...YOU set the example. Maybe if someone like YOURSELF had the balls to step up to the plate THEN...you wouldn't be trying to make up for lost time NOW...

Face it, Basile...you were a direct part of the PROBLEM, and now it's 35 years later and guess what? The guys today are doing the same thing YOU did...looking for an advantage.

[New Hank Wood]

Hey Basile, or should i refer to you as 'Reformed Steroid User'.

So now you are 'ashamed' that you went down the path of using steroids to win Mr. Canada. Oh, and that some how excuses your behaviour?

Time to get down off your 'moral high horse' Vince.  

Your logic reminds me of the Catholic priest who is 'ashamed' for abusing children in his congregation.

Vince, like the priest, just because you repent does not mean your  credibility is restored!

Basile, you can't have it both ways!

You are fixated with Bob and cannot see what a glaring hypocrite you have become!

[Vince B]

Bob, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I am innocent of all charges and you know it.

I disclosed that I took 2 Dianabol tablets a day for about 2 months then off for a month then another cycle. That was it. I did this three times in my career.

Now I dare you to disclose what you took in your career. I won't hold my breath.

[New Hank Wood]

You are pathetic Vince. 

You are like a little child screaming for attention from Chick. 

Let it go Basile.

Bottom line, you are a drug cheat; and that is that!

[Vince B]

I am not a reformed user. I merely disclosed what I did. There is no pride in using drugs to augment a physique.

I now know enough to not have to use steroids and still build a large physique.

My charges re modern bodybuilding stand tall and proud. I am fair dinkum about this and guys like Bob are doing cartwheels trying to dodge the damage.

[Luv2Hurt]

Bob is right the problem with BB is not the drugs or the lack of exposure, its the fact that it is boring as hell to watch.  I mean really you seen one big ass pro BB you seen em all.  Man Im into it and find myself bored to tears watching the shows.  If you have a good seat the figure girls can make it interesting though.

It has a small cult following and that is OK, probaly better off that way.

[Chick]

Bob, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I am innocent of all charges and you know it.

I disclosed that I took 2 Dianabol tablets a day for about 2 months then off for a month then another cycle. That was it. I did this three times in my career.

Now I dare you to disclose what you took in your career. I won't hold my breath.

You are inocent of nothing...you're just as big a hipocrite as other Golden age BBers that talk about how they "Just took a little, or manage to convieniently downsize what dosages they took....please....

You were merely one small cog in what was then "modern BBers" who took it to the next level....no different than what todays versions have done.

[Vince B]

Bob, I have to give you points for aggression. You sure know how to attack others.

The important thing is what guys like you say who represent the professionals. Can you be as honest as I am and disclose your involvement with steroids and other banned substances? I realize that today those drugs are illegal in your country so it would take a brave person to speak out. Did you take steroids to prepare for any of your contests? It is almost scandalous to even ask, isn't it, Bob? Well, speak out as a moral agent and not as a pro athletes rep. You did say that you are not afraid to voice your opinion.

The truth is the sport is a mess because guys like Bob Chick are running it. Oh, he might claim he is just a rep but he is one of the backroom boys because he has a vote of the pro committee.

Bob obviously cannot clean up the sport so he attacks anyone who says that is what should be done. If he did take plenty of banned substances to help him build himself up then he has no moral standing whatsoever because the argument he is using against me must apply to him as well. That makes Bob the epitome of an hypocrite.

[Chick]

Bob, I have to give you points for aggression. You sure know how to attack others.

The important thing is what guys like you say who represent the professionals. Can you be as honest as I am and disclose your involvement with steroids and other banned substances? I realize that today those drugs are illegal in your country so it would take a brave person to speak out. Did you take steroids to prepare for any of your contests? It is almost scandalous to even ask, isn't it, Bob? Well, speak out as a moral agent and not as a pro athletes rep. You did say that you are not afraid to voice your opinion.

The truth is the sport is a mess because guys like Bob Chick are running it. Oh, he might claim he is just a rep but he is one of the backroom boys because he has a vote of the pro committee.

Bob obviously cannot clean up the sport so he attacks anyone who says that is what should be done. If he did take plenty of banned substances to help him build himself up then he has no moral standing whatsoever because the argument he is using against me must apply to him as well. That makes Bob the epitome of an hypocrite.

The sport is a mess because guys like you STARTED it.....off on the wrong foot.

Speaking of points, you're missing it, as usual....I could give a shit what the guys are taking, or not taking...in any sport. People want to pay to see the BEST...and in our sport...the freaks... Not marginal, not "OK", not pretty good.

You think the sport would/ could be 10X the size it is now if the athletes were drug tested....that's laughable at best. I've already provided numerous examples as to why, you just choose to bury your head in trying to be "right" and win the argument, instead of taking it out of the sand and facing reality of modern day BB....just as YOU GUYS progressed from those before you, so did the guys in tyhe 80's, 90's and 2000's....bigger, more muscular and more detailed.

I wonder if the founders of BB hated YOU just as much for taking the integrity out of the sport and resorting to drugs instead of hard work and discipline...lack of moral and ethical sense,etc.....

As to what I've taken....real simple....what I believed neccessary to be at the same level as any other National contenders....and there was plenty I never used, insulin, synthol, IGF-1, any rec drug, tried GH twice...thought it was over rated, and over priced...discontinued it. That said...I never cared what anyone else used, and thought I actually had the advantage in NOT using such things...better look, smaller waist better symmetry.

[GoneAway]

The sport is a mess because guys like you STARTED it.....off on the wrong foot.

Speaking of points, you're missing it, as usual....I could give a shit what the guys are taking, or not taking...in any sport. People want to pay to see the BEST...and in our sport...the freaks... Not marginal, not "OK", not pretty good.

im not sticking up for vince at all, as he cant even tell the difference between reversed photos of Arnold hitting a single-arm bicep shot with his LEFT arm, but you contradict yourself a bit there.

you say guys like vince are to blame for the overuse of steroids, but then say the sport would be nothing without them. that means, you can stop the drug use right now, but won't for the fact of losing money, which contradicts what you say about vince being to blame, when infact you/the ifbb has full power in this present day to do so, but won't.

what was it you were saying, do as i say, not as i do?

[Chick]

im not sticking up for vince at all, as he cant even tell the difference between reversed photos of Arnold hitting a single-arm bicep shot with his LEFT arm, but you contradict yourself a bit there.

you say guys like vince are to blame for the overuse of steroids, but then say the sport would be nothing without them. that means, you can stop the drug use right now, but won't for the fact of losing money, which contradicts what you say about vince being to blame, when infact you/the ifbb has full power in this present day to do so, but won't.

what was it you were saying, do as i say, not as i do?

You obviously havent been keeping up with the thread....

Vince started the "holyer than thou" routine....

I brought up the fact that he, himself had used steriods...

Had they never started it, perhaps it wouldn't be where it is today...

That said...the IFBB had the power to implement testing back in the day..but didn't as the fans responded to bigger, etc...just like every other sport.

All of this confirms what I've been saying for years....the steriods aren't the problem...bodybuilding not being that interesting and not being run with any entertainment value in mind is.

Bottom line is..we didn't start the fire. HIS generation did. To come down on the current crop for doing thew same thing they did, is hipocritacle in the least....

[GoneAway]

All of this confirms what I've been saying for years....the steriods aren't the problem...bodybuilding not being that interesting and not being run with any entertainment value in mind is.

Bottom line is..we didn't start the fire. HIS generation did. To come down on the current crop for doing thew same thing they did, is hipocritacle in the least....

first point i agree with. someone seriously needs to hold ongoing meetings to redesign the future of pro bb.

in the end it's no one's fault that steroids are as widely used as they are now. everything progresses and someone was bound to make a substance like it. the whole steroids thing is a double edged sword. we love the physiques, but it is doing them damage by using an ever increasing amount. like i said, there should be meetings on how to first boost the entertainment value and second lower the required amount of drugs used, via testing for example for gh and setting a limit to how high your test levels can be to compete. obviously a complete drug overhaul is probably never gonna happen, but if we can get the dosages down and rid the sport of gh, the physiques will likely resemble more of the late 1980's, which was when the sport was doing great.

[Vince B]

As to what I've taken....real simple....what I believed neccessary to be at the same level as any other National contenders....and there was plenty I never used, insulin, synthol, IGF-1, any rec drug, tried GH twice...thought it was over rated, and over priced...discontinued it. That said...I never cared what anyone else used, and thought I actually had the advantage in NOT using such things...better look, smaller waist better symmetry.

Okay, Bob, we are making progress. You don't admit you took anabolic steroids or testosterone or for how long. A list of what you took and for how long would clear the air here. What exactly was necessary to take to be on the same level as your competitors?

[New Hank Wood]

For Christ sake Vince, give it up already!

Bob has been more than candid on his drug use.....   now you want 'listed details' of his usage? 

Next you will be asking for photographic evidence of Chick putting the needles in his butt!

Seriously, Chick is not a stupid man.  He is well aware that steroids are illegal. He is not going to implicate himself voluntarily.

Bottom line Basile, you are a former drug user.  You don't have any right calling-out people  who are users!

[onlyme]

You guys type fast

[Vince B]

Hank, you are starting to sound like a little angel sitting on someone's shoulder telling him not to do this or that. What is your background in bodybuilding? What gives you the moral authority to knock anyone here? I don't see it.

I am debating openly with Bob Chick. He called me out on using steroids but isn't about to say that he used them. I call him a coward for that. He and you are trying to shift the blame for the mess in bodybuilding to me. I am not the problem. Those who run this sport and perhaps the sponsors must accept the blame.

Chick's argument that steroids are justified because the huge guys bring in the crowds is nonsense. That is really throwing reason and ethics out the window.

Attack those who sustain the evil in bodybuilding and see if we can return bodybuilding to training and nutrition.

[dr.chimps]

Words of the day: Hypocrite; Hypocrisy; Hypocritical          

[Vince B]

That said...the IFBB had the power to implement testing back in the day..but didn't as the fans responded to bigger, etc...just like every other sport.

All of this confirms what I've been saying for years....the steriods aren't the problem...bodybuilding not being that interesting and not being run with any entertainment value in mind is.

Bottom line is..we didn't start the fire. HIS generation did. To come down on the current crop for doing thew same thing they did, is hipocritacle in the least....

Bob puts the 'hip in hypocritical!

Well, Bob, I see you have been clued in by your bosses and mentor. Ben works his butt off for decades coming up with criteria and rules and codes for bodybuilding to be accepted by the Olympics. If it is accepted there then that is public acceptance for sure.

The IFBB pretty much has a stranglehold on bodybuilding contests because they hold the rights to stage the Mr Olympia which bodybuilders know is the highest title they can win. Because no other organization can hold the Olympia the IFBB can charge outrageous fees to promoters to stage the contest. Surely it all can't come down to money? I mean, is the IFBB afraid if drug testing were strictly adhered to then interest will fall and therefore no one can make a profit and hence those huge fees won't be arriving? I wonder.

If this is true that the IFBB fears falling attendance will hurt their pocketbook then Bob is a bigger stooge and patsy than any of us imagine.

I do genuinely feel sorry for Bob because I bet he curses some Getbig names in his home and his poor wife has to deal with a rather emotional guy who seems glued to the computer.

[dearth]

for someone who consumed illegal drugs to built his physique,
it is logical to expect you to downplay their role in making bodybuilding a joke of a sport.

You obviously havent been keeping up with the thread....

Vince started the "holyer than thou" routine....

I brought up the fact that he, himself had used steriods...

Had they never started it, perhaps it wouldn't be where it is today...

That said...the IFBB had the power to implement testing back in the day..but didn't as the fans responded to bigger, etc...just like every other sport.

All of this confirms what I've been saying for years....the steriods aren't the problem...bodybuilding not being that interesting and not being run with any entertainment value in mind is.

Bottom line is..we didn't start the fire. HIS generation did. To come down on the current crop for doing thew same thing they did, is hipocritacle in the least....

[G o a t b o y]

.

[Benny B]

Okay, Bob, we are making progress. You don't admit you took anabolic steroids or testosterone or for how long. A list of what you took and for how long would clear the air here. What exactly was necessary to take to be on the same level as your competitors?

give me a break...that's not realistic

[knny187]

One thing I don't buy...

Is that fact that golden agers "Vince" of the 2 dbol a day or whatever.

These are the same guys that pounded down red meat & carbs....but did no or little cardio.

Fact is....they are no different than today's bodybuilders.....they took whatever was available at them...at that time.  

Whatever they could get their hands on.....
Whatever claimed to get the best results & than times it by 3.....
Whatever was experimental & not yet proved results.