Anyone remember what was gh15's guideline for max natty bw?

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

Couldn't be more spot on....I achieved 195 lbs. contest shape clean/ drug free....at 6'0. Best I believe I could have done was perhaps 200 with more years of training, and I believe I had some of the better genetics to start with based on my teen bodybuilding accomplishments...

Not sure why anyone doubts what you say...

damn chick giving respect where respect is due...hey chick do you remember how big your arms were when you were 16 years old?  man they looked hyooge for your age.

[Chick]

damn chick giving respect where respect is due...hey chick do you remember how big your arms were when you were 16 years old?  man they looked hyooge for your age.

No idea

[The Wall]

first of all learn respect,,dont ever doubt words i write here,,you can argue it but dont dount it,,
second you are average size fella,,i dont know if you are slow or dont read well or cant read gh15 well due to gh15 english,,but gh15 write that HEITHS IS VERY IMPORTIANT TO WEIGHT EVERY INCH ADD 7 LB !,,you are 220lb kis that in reality in pictures look like a 5'10 190lb kid,,you are equivelent to a 190lb ,,as i said soem individuals can get to 190 at 5'10 5'11 NATURALLY and have a 7-8%,,those individual USUALLY USING SOMETHING OR USED SOMETHING TO GET INTO THE BASE OF 190LB AT 7-8% ,,INFACT IM PRETTY SURE YOU DID USE SOMETHING AS IN CLENBUTROL OR LITTLE WINSTROL OR THE M1T SNF OTHER  HORMONE RELATED PRODUCTS,,BUT IN ANY CASE!! YOUR BUID IS VERY ACHIEVABLE NATURALLY ,,YOU ARE NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT ,,YOU HAVE A DECENT BUILD AND YOU HAVE VERY GOOD WAIST YOUR ARMS ARE BIG BECAUSE YOUR OTHER BODY PARTS ARE = 18 YEAR OLD WHICH IS PRACTICALLY YORU AGE,,YES YOU WILL BE ABLE TO GROW VERY WELL BUT IT WILL ONLY BE ON HORMONES,,

you are young fella ,,naturally you are done ,,this is tha max you will be maybe 3-4 more lb into the 225 which will = 195 at high single digiit

so becofere you come next time to doubt my words take into calculation YOUR HEIGHT,,you are 220lb at 6'2 ..in bodybuilding we expect a 5'10 to be a minimum of 210 -220 to even be able to step on stage ,,when you walk on stage at 200lb 6'2 entering the light heavy or heavy they will eat you out alive,,

i assume it is nonesense written by a yuonger fella that still learning so dont take my words wrong way but there is  DEFINITE NATURAL LIMIT AND YOU GOT THERE,,in reality you = 190lb when compares with other bodybuilders in the height ranges of 5'8-5'11,,,height poundage in bodybuilding counts only if you give it some beef and since you are natural as you say you are stuck at 220 and not at 250 where you need to be! now if you do take orals and related products or used to take then its even worse cse but ill take yoru word for natural since you  have average sized physiqe that in reality will be dwarfed by most 5'10 220lb bodybuilders

if you dont get on hormones you cant say bye bye bodybuilding remember what gh15 told you in your 21 year of life,,you will be doing it anyway in couple years with or with out me since you are on this board and most people on this board are bodybuilding and hormone addicts

I jus do bodybuilding for fun when I am taking a break from strongman, and like I said I have never touched a drug in my life...I never claimed to be the next BB phenom, but I do believe I will reach well beyond 225 naturally.  I respect your opinon, but I feel you greatly underestimate a naturals ability...

Just because no one else has done it...does not mean it cant be done

[turner98]

I jus do bodybuilding for fun when I am taking a break from strongman, and like I said I have never touched a drug in my life...I never claimed to be the next BB phenom, but I do believe I will reach well beyond 225 naturally.  I respect your opinon, but I feel you greatly underestimate a naturals ability...

Just because no one else has done it...does not mean it cant be done

What I've noticed over years is generally people who are in shape or a big guy are very positive and don't go round advising others, or never tell you "it can't be done". Those who aren't, are mostly negative and put others down to make themselves feel better for their shortcomings. I have a friend who is very insecure, calls everyone underneath the sun when we're out, or looking at pictures of friends.

[Method101]

Do the best with what God gave you, and the rest of the time try to fix the things he left out (calves in my case lol)

Hi Ronnie

[DK II]

gh15's guideline for max neatty was 750mg test, 750mg deca per week, hgh 5 i.u. every day, insulin 10 i.u. every day, T3, clen, ephedrin and no supplements.

[GoneAway]

depends on alot of things. there is no set max natty bw for any particular height.

[Van_Bilderass]

Calculate your maximum drug free bodybuilding potential! 

http://www.weightrainer.net/maximum_bodypred.html

[mesmorph78]

natural limits are differ from individual to individal due to bone mass and structure and water retention and couple pounds here and there of lean muscle but it all comes to quite aimilar range heights ralated  with humans both humans who train and humans who dont train,,

natural limit for 5'10 will be at the 180-190lb at 6-7% IF HE HAS OUT OF THIS WORLD FRAME TO CARRY THE OPTIMAL MUSCLE TO FAT RATIO ON HIM ,,

adjust 7lbb per inch of height,,

i would say the england mesormorph fella is where natural limit stops,,190lb plus minus with 18 inch arms plus minusin the wih no pump in the am after not taking food into system for 8 hours,,his body fat is 6-7% ,,5 % is when the abs start sucking the skin in and you see deep tunnels and get very dry as in duretics use 3-5% is duretic use ,,

but yes the mesomorph guy 190lb give or take at 6-% is where it stpos ,,you will never see better with out hormones,,genetics tops as you like to call it stops right there nd even that level is usually maintained and developed with hormone use with many individuals

im over 200lbs.... and im sure u saw the clips of me measuring my arms at 18.6 inches which they were at the time....and  they werent pumped.. my arms pumped are over 19.5
.. no worries though i will post up new some clips soon

[Ursus]

Theres no natural limit....im 21 never touched a drug in my life 6'2 220 lbs...that natural limit bullshit is for people with no work ethic.

similar size height to me etc.

i dont even take any supps bar a weight gainer and max of 120g protein a day. it varies with each individuals genetics.

[Ursus]

im over 200lbs.... and im sure u saw the clips of me measuring my arms at 18.6 inches which they were at the time....and  they werent pumped.. my arms pumped are over 19.5
.. no worries though i will post up new some clips soon

looking forward to seeing them mate

[dj181]

Theres no natural limit....im 21 never touched a drug in my life 6'2 220 lbs...that natural limit bullshit is for people with no work ethic.

looking good bro! i'm curious, did you get your bf tested when you took those photos? form the looks of the photos i'd put you at bout 8%, but i think there's a pretty big difference between 8 and 6, at least there is in my case

[MCWAY]

Calm down on the 'no work ethic' business.

I trained 8 years without using.

Always worked hard, on or off.

If you think regional, National or IFBB guys don't have work ethic....then you will need more than the vacuum you showed us the other day to get by.

"He who screams loudest is guilty..."

Peace

I think Wall simply meant that statement to those who don't take anabolics, using the "natural limit" thing as an excuse as to why they can't get better results (i.e. "I can't get bigger than 170-180 lb. at 5'10" drug-free, because some anonymous poster, claiming to be a top Mr/Ms. Olympia contender said so).

Of course, real IFBB pros who've actually competed at the Olympia will tell you differently.

[Van_Bilderass]

One can and will make gains in both size, strength and lean body mass via hardowrk in the gym along with diet.

Where did gh15 say you can't make gains without drugs? He talks about the natural cap in lean body mass. Hey, even Chick agrees.

We, and even society in general, have become desensitized due to being exposed to drug enhanced bodies. People don't know what an elite drug free body looks like these days, it's just not impressive enough. "A natural body is nothing you look at twice", like gh15 says.

[dj181]

Where did gh15 say you can't make gains without drugs? He talks about the natural cap in lean body mass. Hey, even Chick agrees.

We, and even society in general, have become desensitized due to being exposed to drug enhanced bodies. People don't know what an elite drug free body looks like these days, it's just not impressive enough. "A natural body is nothing you look at twice", like gh15 says.

great post ma man! now dats spot on! there is a limit to natural lean mass, so my interest is what is that limit?

[Van_Bilderass]

great post ma man! now dats spot on! there is a limit to natural lean mass, so my interest is what is that limit?

Check the link I put up above. Read the article too. You probably shouldn't take it as an absolute as there might be some genetic freaks who can grow a bit beyond that but you can get a general idea.

[mesmorph78]

Where did gh15 say you can't make gains without drugs? He talks about the natural cap in lean body mass. Hey, even Chick agrees.

We, and even society in general, have become desensitized due to being exposed to drug enhanced bodies. People don't know what an elite drug free body looks like these days, it's just not impressive enough. "A natural body is nothing you look at twice", like gh15 says.

visit jamaica...
or certain parts of africa
i am from jamaica.. so i knowwhat gh15 says is on this limit that natural uys can get is garbage
im also beat that limit easily
 

[gh15]

visit jamaica...
or certain parts of africa
i am from jamaica.. so i knowwhat gh15 says is on this limit that natural uys can get is garbage
im also beat that limit easily
 

hey hey hey ,,,show some respect ,,,NOTHING THAT GH15 SAYs IS GARBAGE,,i tained with plenty of jamaican fellas and plenty of african fellas ,,some of my friends are from africa and for all you nkow i may very well be black,,so thats that

now,,,you dont beat anything of what gh15 says,,you are 190-195lb on a good wet day upon waking up in the morning ,,your arms mesure 18-18.5 inches with pump maybe 18.75 on a good wet day,,and most importanlty ,,,you better think very hard befor posting a 20 iinch arm on a 200lb version of yourself because i will take a look at it and will NAME HERE FOR EVERYONE THE DRUGS YOU ARE ON,,you are an oral type of fella i know it since its what mr moigambua a good fried of mine from tanzania used to take,,he was 177lb at 18 inch arms,,also didnt have thickness of the tors due to limited use or orals,,

in any case i agreed to believe you you dont take anything because you look natural since your over all physiqe is achivable naturaly ,,only specific parts of it are impressive for natural...BUT it doesnt mean you dont use orals here and there,,many orals give zero water retention and you know it very well

in case you present here a 20 inch arm pump or not pumped on a 200lb phjysiwe and you take your shirt off and show you are sitting at 6%....you will show everyone that you are not only hormonized to some degree but also  A LIAR,,,so a ..keep yoru mouth shut when im nice to you and learn to take a compliment and b.. do go on hormones because even with yoru 190lb and 18  inch arms ...if you go on you have a chance to get a pro card one day in the seen future,,

one thing you should not do and it is go with your nose in the coulds and show 20 inch arms on a sub 200lb fella with 5=6%...because trust me when i tell you this and i been to the top of the moutain as in top top ,,its none existant with humans no matter how jamaican you are,,jamaican by the way have big tendency to be big thick as in higher bodyfat or skinny thin...the ones who are extermely muscular and have size on them are also like all of us humans on hormones and related products

i dont need to look at you more than 2 times to know that bodybuilding is  BIG PART OF YOUR LIFE,,you may clall it lifting but trust me you are not some guy that go and lift on monday and thursday only in the summer time.. so relax

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

I know a guy who is 5'9" and weighs 175lbs and has 17.5inch arms very lean like 3% BF I think he is on steroids, but told me he is natural all upper body no legs though calves are 13inches and thighs like 20inches a black guy.  He could do 225lbs bench rep for 20 reps for 6 sets with 30sec rest in between sets.  big lean black guy.....

[mesmorph78]

hey hey hey ,,,show some respect ,,,NOTHING THAT GH15 SAYs IS GARBAGE,,i tained with plenty of jamaican fellas and plenty of african fellas ,,some of my friends are from africa and for all you nkow i may very well be black,,so thats that

now,,,you dont beat anything of what gh15 says,,you are 190-195lb on a good wet day upon waking up in the morning ,,your arms mesure 18-18.5 inches with pump maybe 18.75 on a good wet day,,and most importanlty ,,,you better think very hard befor posting a 20 iinch arm on a 200lb version of yourself because i will take a look at it and will NAME HERE FOR EVERYONE THE DRUGS YOU ARE ON,,you are an oral type of fella i know it since its what mr moigambua a good fried of mine from tanzania used to take,,he was 177lb at 18 inch arms,,also didnt have thickness of the tors due to limited use or orals,,

in any case i agreed to believe you you dont take anything because you look natural since your over all physiqe is achivable naturaly ,,only specific parts of it are impressive for natural...BUT it doesnt mean you dont use orals here and there,,many orals give zero water retention and you know it very well

in case you present here a 20 inch arm pump or not pumped on a 200lb phjysiwe and you take your shirt off and show you are sitting at 6%....you will show everyone that you are not only hormonized to some degree but also  A LIAR,,,so a ..keep yoru mouth shut when im nice to you and learn to take a compliment and b.. do go on hormones because even with yoru 190lb and 18  inch arms ...if you go on you have a chance to get a pro card one day in the seen future,,

one thing you should not do and it is go with your nose in the coulds and show 20 inch arms on a sub 200lb fella with 5=6%...because trust me when i tell you this and i been to the top of the moutain as in top top ,,its none existant with humans no matter how jamaican you are,,jamaican by the way have big tendency to be big thick as in higher bodyfat or skinny thin...the ones who are extermely muscular and have size on them are also like all of us humans on hormones and related products

i dont need to look at you more than 2 times to know that bodybuilding is  BIG PART OF YOUR LIFE,,you may clall it lifting but trust me you are not some guy that go and lift on monday and thursday only in the summer time.. so relax

gh15 .. please.. when you and i are debating maintain the same level of respect ..that i have showed you i said you re talking garbage however i did not attack your person..
do you know how disrespectful it is to accuse someone of takin drugs or whatever....
...
if i was on drugs or anything i would have no problem sayin so..... also bodybuilding is not a big part of my life i lift weights thats all... 4 days a week thats it ..and eat normal food in normal quantities... ha ha u said something about a pro card see this is where u show your ignorance ..not because i post on a bbing board means i would ever want to be a bber or a pro one u couldnt give me one of those free...
you wouldnt catch me oiled up in skimpy underwear oiled up posing never never never... i respect bbers...  well some but i would never do that its not my thing... so please think before you ASSume and put your fingers on the keyboard...
please.... 
 
I find it laughable that you are gonna tell me about jamaicans... when i am from jamaica... and lived there for most of my life
anyway
i can see your game basically you cant lose the debate..because here i am exctly 204lb now between5 - 7% bf living proof that disproves your theory... and because all you did is turn around and accuse me of taking drugs.. so if a guy doesnt fit into... your formula... then he's on drugs...
 
ok ima leave you to think what you want to think..
have a good sunday sir
mes
 

[AVBG]

haha.. it's good to see meso pwning the high and mighty gh15.. I appreciate what gh15 has to say about certain topics but he ain't a total authority on bb despite Cabdizzle's constantly nut-higging.

[turner98]

"hey hey hey ,,,show some respect ,,,NOTHING THAT GH15 SAYs IS GARBAGE"

oh brother   

[MCWAY]

Where did gh15 say you can't make gains without drugs? He talks about the natural cap in lean body mass. Hey, even Chick agrees.

We, and even society in general, have become desensitized due to being exposed to drug enhanced bodies. People don't know what an elite drug free body looks like these days, it's just not impressive enough. "A natural body is nothing you look at twice", like gh15 says.

I think you missed the sarcasm in Chick's posts.

[turner98]

gh15, this guy claimed to be natural.

Discuss.

[dj181]

gh15, this guy claimed to be natural.

Discuss.

that's Sandow right? well, it's pretty certain he was natural as roids weren't yet developed at that time. so, how tall was he and what did he weight in that photo, do you have any idea?