More or less than this for shoulders.

[Painlayer69]

I have lagging delts i cant seem to keep them up to par with the rest of my body because of them even my bench is very low. Wondering if you guys could please give me ANY advice on this matter below you will find my delt routine.


Side laterals, 15,15,12,10
DB presses, 10,8,8,6
Front bb presses,10,8,6,6
upright rows,10,10,10,10
rear delt flyes ( on an inclined bench ) 15,12,10,10

Please give me ANY help with shoulders as you guys can thank you

[mitchyboy]

Try doing drops on the laterals. Work up to your heavy weight, no lower than 8 reps, and than drop the hell out of them, all the way down to 5 or 10 pound dumbells. Hurts like hell but you learn to love it. Also, machine and smith presses are not for pussies, no matter what people tell you. You can really concentrate on just the press, and not balance, but do your laterals first. I'm doing this workout today matter of fact. I would work the rears with dumbells, lying on an incline bench or bent over seated or standing. good luck and hope this helps. Oh, and don't go the ego route, moderate weight for a great pump is better than swinging and tossing dumbells like a tool

[candidizzle]

change something. either go high intensity, high volume, train it more often, or less often. try manipulating your supplements around the workout. maybe youve got to do isolation movements for a while, maybe yove got to stick to only power compound movements.

change something !

[Painlayer69]

Thanx guys really appreciate it i will give the drop sets on the laterals a try that sounds like it could help alot with shape.

[triple_pickle]

1. do compound movements first, so move side laterals after presses
2. do either db or bb presses in one session, not both, now you are over-training

[Painlayer69]

Well if i shouldnt do both presses in one session, which press would be better for overall mass? Or should i just switch from bb to db presses weekly? S i keep my muscles guessing on how they will be hit.

[chaos]

Well if i shouldnt do both presses in one session, which press would be better for overall mass? Or should i just switch from bb to db presses weekly? S i keep my muscles guessing on how they will be hit.

Switch them every couple of weeks, do them standing or seated.

[triple_pickle]

i prefer bb but you can do bb for let's say 12 weeks, switch to db for 12 weeks, etc.  also try push presses instead of regular bb presses.

[Painlayer69]

What are push presses? actually never heard that name before

[triple_pickle]

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/PushPress.html

[laurion]

Shoulders have always been my weak point, it's strange because for their size they are very strong and I think that is part of the problem.  I had an idea that if they can handle so much weight maybe I'm just not challenging them enough.  So I've been specifically targeting the delts while trying to minimize all other muscles that could rob from the delts.  I once watched a clip of Larry Scott talking about shoulders and what he said really resonated with me.  He talked about shoulders needing constant tension to grow, and he also said that front delts and traps are "bully" muscles and targeting them only caused them to rob growth from the "shoulder cap" (as Lee Haney would put it,)  so I've been doing more seated movements and less trap and front delt targeting, but three things that I really think are making a difference is "one arm flys," "steering wheel raises and "shoulder around the worlds" seen during MMA training for core and shoulder strength conditioning.  With "one arm raises" I hold onto a rail or some other stationary equipment and slightly lean toward the lifting arm, seems to really take work out of my abs, back and chest while really attacking the delts.  I also have been doing "steering wheel raises" to failure after failing on any press movement.  I feel like failing on the compound movement then dropping the weight and immediately doing these really have made a difference.  "Steering wheel raises" are done by holding a plate in front of you're body like a steering wheel (hands on side of plate), then raise the plate straight up in front of your face, next turn the "wheel" to one side (a quarter turn so that hands are on top and bottom of plate,) then while not allowing your "wheel" to leave a straight line in front of your body slowly lower it to first position leaving it a quarter turned with hands on top and bottom, last slowly turn the plate back to hands on sides and raise it back to in front of your face repeating it for your other sides delt.  Lastly the "shoulder around the world" I hold the plate in front of my head then slowly rotate it around the back of my head in a circular pattern.  After I started doing these things I feel like my caps are finally starting to come out!!  I also heard somewhere that most people really need more rear delt size to give the "cap" the illusion of size so I've been pre-exhausting them, I start shoulder day with them every time.

Hope this helps you as much as it has me, everyone is different though.

[benchmstr]

I have lagging delts i cant seem to keep them up to par with the rest of my body because of them even my bench is very low. Wondering if you guys could please give me ANY advice on this matter below you will find my delt routine.


Side laterals, 15,15,12,10
DB presses, 10,8,8,6
Front bb presses,10,8,6,6
upright rows,10,10,10,10
rear delt flyes ( on an inclined bench ) 15,12,10,10

Please give me ANY help with shoulders as you guys can thank you

you are doing entirely to much for shoulders.

bench

[mitchyboy]

Wow, there is so much conflicting info on this 1 page its scary

[Painlayer69]

Thanx alot laurion that does actually help a little i will have to try and see how it affects my delts.

And benchmstr, How am i doing to much for delts? Mine is a pretty simple routine seen in alot of magazines. I did think two presses in one session would be to much after it made my shoulders ache when moving to the second press.

What is your routine???

[triple_pickle]

dude, 20 sets for shoulders is way too much.  my routine is:

good warmup
presses 3 work sets
side laterals 3 sets
rear delt raises 2 sets

[PANDAEMONIUM]

I have lagging delts i cant seem to keep them up to par with the rest of my body because of them even my bench is very low. Wondering if you guys could please give me ANY advice on this matter below you will find my delt routine.


Side laterals, 15,15,12,10
DB presses, 10,8,8,6
Front bb presses,10,8,6,6
upright rows,10,10,10,10
rear delt flyes ( on an inclined bench ) 15,12,10,10

Please give me ANY help with shoulders as you guys can thank you

Laterals are fine, and even front raises, but make sure you do very light weight and high reps on those.  Remember that the shoulder girdle is one of the "weakest links" in the body.  Heavy (whatever is "heavy" for you) laterals, front raises, etc., if not done strictly--and they usually aren't if they're "heavy" and done for lower reps--can seriously compromise your shoulder health if you're not careful.

[MisterMagoo]

LESS.

i'm starting to honestly believe that shoulders can be built if you do enough pressing and add some rear delt work. people rely on laterals too much, like doing five variants of flyes for chest instead of just benching.

[PANDAEMONIUM]

LESS.

i'm starting to honestly believe that shoulders can be built if you do enough pressing and add some rear delt work. people rely on laterals too much, like doing five variants of flyes for chest instead of just benching.

x2

Flyes, IMO, are useless.  Stick with heavy pressing movements.  That's where you get the most gains.  All the rest is just gravy.  And I'm not talking about "ball gravy", in case that fruit loop "Gone Away" is reading this

[MisterMagoo]

x2

Flyes, IMO, are useless.  Stick with heavy pressing movements.  That's where you get the most gains.  All the rest is just gravy.  And I'm not talking about "ball gravy", in case that fruit loop "Gone Away" is reading this

wicked ripped me apart in my log for doing far too much damn shoulder work and i think it's paying off. my standing shoulder press popped up 20 pounds for a set of 6 and 185 was easier seated than it had been before.

[benchmstr]

Thanx alot laurion that does actually help a little i will have to try and see how it affects my delts.

And benchmstr, How am i doing to much for delts? Mine is a pretty simple routine seen in alot of magazines. I did think two presses in one session would be to much after it made my shoulders ache when moving to the second press.

What is your routine???

i work out three times a week with what i refere to as a modified hst program.if i feel that i overtrained during my last workout i may change the movement a little so i can still stimulate the muscle group completely.

so when i do shoulder it usually goes as fallowes

side laterals-2X10 for warm-up only
standing shoulder press with Olympic bar-as many as i want

if i over do it the last work out i do this

side laterals-2x10 warm up only
rear laterals-2x10 warm up only
upright rows-usually only two sets because shoulders are still weak from the last workout,but i still use heavy weight.

i used to do the same type shit as you do for shoulders,when i stopped working out the traditional way and went to the way i work out now everything changed for the better.there is a mental barrier that you have get over or you will never understand what i am talking about.

bench

[GoneAway]

Thanx guys really appreciate it i will give the drop sets on the laterals a try that sounds like it could help alot with shape.

first of all, do you want shape or strength?

And benchmstr, How am i doing to much for delts? Mine is a pretty simple routine seen in alot of magazines.

that might be your problem - overtraining.

the magazines show routines mainly for those on steroids - who can handle the workload and usually just work one bodypart per week. plenty of rest time and a much faster recovery than natural trainers, assuming ur natural.

[natural al]

I have lagging delts i cant seem to keep them up to par with the rest of my body because of them even my bench is very low. Wondering if you guys could please give me ANY advice on this matter below you will find my delt routine.


Side laterals, 15,15,12,10
DB presses, 10,8,8,6
Front bb presses,10,8,6,6
upright rows,10,10,10,10
rear delt flyes ( on an inclined bench ) 15,12,10,10

Please give me ANY help with shoulders as you guys can thank you

drop all the excessive warm up sets, this is fine:

Side laterals, 15,15,12,10

after that go right to your heavy sets, all you do with the excessive warm ups is waste energy so front BB press should work like this:

Front bb presses-6,6

and so on.

[Painlayer69]

Lol yeah guys im still natural, I want both strength and shape, But i probably should stop what ive been doing and listen.

So..... i should do less for shoulders and i could get more??

[mass 04]

Lol yeah guys im still natural, I want both strength and shape, But i probably should stop what ive been doing and listen.

So..... i should do less for shoulders and i could get more??

I would personally do one press, a side and rear lateral and some upright rows with a bb or some db's.

Also try to space shoulder and chest workouts 2-3 days apart IMO.

[triple_pickle]

So..... i should do less for shoulders and i could get more??

yes, you've been overtraining

so when i do shoulder it usually goes as fallowes

side laterals-2X10 for warm-up only
standing shoulder press with Olympic bar-as many as i want

that sounds like a good plan, i will try this for a couple of months