Obama beating McCain in national polls

[WeenTang]

240, you hate bush, explain to me how he ruined the housing market?

He can't, Bush had nothing to do with it.  Liberals just think the government should run everything, so when something goes wrong they blame the government.  And boy do they love bashing Bush.

Here's what happened.  Around 6 - 7 years ago, democratic congressman, state politicians, and media started grandstanding about how mortgages were not equally distributed by race.  They had nice catch phrases about how "every American should have RIGHT to home ownership."  This put a lot of pressure on mortgages company's to come up with alternative forms of mortgages.  Instead of standing up to these loud mouth politicians and telling them they have no idea what they were talking about, the mortgage company's came up with interest only mortgage, adjustable rate mortgage, and other risky financing schemes.  The mortgage company's greatly reduced their wealth requirements and started giving people more financing than they could realisticly afford.

These mortgages worked well for a while.  Then the economy took a dive.  And the morons who took out an exorbiant mortgage, could no longer pay.  Therefore, we had an incredible increase in foreclosures.  Meanwhile, financial institutions were using these risky mortgages to gaurantee certain securities.  When the mortgages foreclose, the securities were worthless, and we had the financial sector problems.

To sum up, the mortgage crisis is the fault of the greedy mortgage companies, the morons who took out mortgages they couldn't afford, and dumbass financial institutions who didn't understand what was gauranteeing their securities.  And it all started by politicians getting involved in private business.

And now Obama wants to bail out all of these people who made terrible decisions, at the expense of the responsible tax payer who DIDN'T over-extend their debt.

[240 is Back]

He can't, Bush had nothing to do with it.

Wrong.   But have a cookie.

Liberals just think ...

You look ignorant when you start blanket statements like that.  Please stop embarassing your fellow republicans with the name-calling.  That's FOX propaganda you're repeating.  Most smart republicans take all media with a grain of salt, FOX news included.  Anyone who starts a sentence with "Libs think..." shows they see it as an "Us against them" game, not an issue of right and wrong.

Tell me... should the 2 repub senators caught in sex scandals in 2007 resign?

[WeenTang]

Looks like I missed several posts.  Sorry for assuming 240 was a liberal.

I agree with most of what 240 said, especially about Obama.  But I don't agree with Bush having anything to do with lowering the credit rating limits that lead to all the bad mortgages.  Financial institutions determine who they lend to and how much they lend.

[240 is Back]

Looks like I missed several posts.  Sorry for assuming 240 was a liberal.

I agree with most of what 240 said, especially about Obama.  But I don't agree with Bush having anything to do with lowering the credit rating limits that lead to all the bad mortgages.  Financial institutions determine who they lend to and how much they lend.

No worries.  I'm a lifelong republican voter who isn't too thrilled with the big govt growth, heavy borrowing, elective wars, and other abuses under the current neoconservative agenda.

I take many shots at both parties.  I love politics and admit both sides need to fix things.  Many people ignore the flaws of their own party.  That's like ignoring your ugly lawn and bitching about the neighbor's yard.  No, you should admit your lawn sucks, water and mow it, and have the nicest yard in the block.

[240 is Back]

The Bush-Cheney Administration eliminated government supervision of financial and other markets, and privatized the government's traditional responsibilities from mine safety inspection even to waging Iraq war and occupation.

It gave hefty tax cuts to big business and the wealthy at the expense of the working and middle income classes, and abetted Wall Street's financial games.

It also ignored the lessons of the bank failures of the 1930s: that unregulated, unsupervised financial markets inevitably produce financial frauds and catastrophic market failure and depress the economy.

Wall Street increasingly wriggled free from New Deal regulations that maintained the financial market safety. Wall Street created a "shadow non-banking" banking system that completely bypassed government supervision

[Brixtonbulldog]

Wrong.   But have a cookie.


You look ignorant when you start blanket statements like that.  Please stop embarassing your fellow republicans with the name-calling.  That's FOX propaganda you're repeating.  Most smart republicans take all media with a grain of salt, FOX news included.  Anyone who starts a sentence with "Libs think..." shows they see it as an "Us against them" game, not an issue of right and wrong.

Tell me... should the 2 repub senators caught in sex scandals in 2007 resign?

Why insult someone who speaks the truth?  Sounds like you just don't like hearing it.

[The Coach]

Looks like I missed several posts.  Sorry for assuming 240 was a liberal.

I agree with most of what 240 said, especially about Obama.  But I don't agree with Bush having anything to do with lowering the credit rating limits that lead to all the bad mortgages.  Financial institutions determine who they lend to and how much they lend.

No need to be sorry....it's an easy assumption.

[Brixtonbulldog]

The Bush-Cheney Administration eliminated government supervision of financial and other markets, and privatized the government's traditional responsibilities from mine safety inspection even to waging Iraq war and occupation.

It gave hefty tax cuts to big business and the wealthy at the expense of the working and middle income classes, and abetted Wall Street's financial games.

It also ignored the lessons of the bank failures of the 1930s: that unregulated, unsupervised financial markets inevitably produce financial frauds and catastrophic market failure and depress the economy.

Wall Street increasingly wriggled free from New Deal regulations that maintained the financial market safety. Wall Street created a "shadow non-banking" banking system that completely bypassed government supervision

Things probably done because private entities tend to run things better than gov't beurocracy.  And of course business will get the largest tax breaks considering the percentage more they pay already.

You call yourself conservative but you consistently deviate from the principle that free markets thrive when gov'ts don't interfere.

[240 is Back]

Why insult someone who speaks the truth?  Sounds like you just don't like hearing it.

You use the word "lib" a lot too.

it's a shame.  You make it about "Us vs. them" and therefore excuse a great deal of abuse and pilferage the republican party is guilty of.

I'm not the only one who feels this way about terms like that used to degrade those who actually have a lot of factual evidence to back up their positions (manufactured case for war, letting 911 happen, billions in stolen $ and guns in iraq).  The fact that Bush is at 28% approval and mccain is in rough shape for November, speaks volumes.

[240 is Back]

No need to be sorry....it's an easy assumption.

Again, if you want to go there, let's compare resumes.

I've been married once.  Carried guns for 11 years.  Church going.  Law abiding.  Lifetime republican voter.

Your turn..... lib

[240 is Back]

You call yourself conservative but you consistently deviate from the principle that free markets thrive when gov'ts don't interfere.

Interesting.  When the Federal Reserve used taxpayer $ and rescued Bears Sterns, a large PRIVATE investment bank, so that the Board wouldn't have to return their bonuses, did you disagree with that? 

[Brixtonbulldog]

You use the word "lib" a lot too.

it's a shame.  You make it about "Us vs. them" and therefore excuse a great deal of abuse and pilferage the republican party is guilty of.

I'm not the only one who feels this way about terms like that used to degrade those who actually have a lot of factual evidence to back up their positions (manufactured case for war, letting 911 happen, billions in stolen $ and guns in iraq).  The fact that Bush is at 28% approval and mccain is in rough shape for November, speaks volumes.

All you're doing is the same things that make conservatives in congress impotent.  You refuse to place blame on the shoulders of the people who deserve it while the left throws it's own garbage on you daily.  You keep acting like you're "above the battle" when all you're doing is losing the hearts and minds of Americans who only get to see the other side blaming CONSERVATIVES. 

[Brixtonbulldog]

Again, if you want to go there, let's compare resumes.

I've been married once.  Carried guns for 11 years.  Church going.  Law abiding.  Lifetime republican voter.

Your turn..... lib

You forgot turncoat, unhelpful, and dilusional.  I guess you call yourself a "maverick."

[240 is Back]

All you're doing is the same things that make conservatives in congress impotent.  You refuse to place blame on the shoulders of the people who deserve it while the left throws it's own garbage on you daily.  You keep acting like you're "above the battle" when all you're doing is losing the hearts and minds of Americans who only get to see the other side blaming CONSERVATIVES. 

I prefer to address POLICY.  Repubs owned policy from 01 to 07.  Dems have been in congressional control for a grand total of 18 months, and Bush keeps vetoing their asses.

I'm pointing out flaws here in positions of both parties.  I can bash obama all night too, quite happily  But I admit the repubs did allow pvt banks to issue predatory loans despite major historical precedent.  Can you?

[Brixtonbulldog]

Interesting.  When the Federal Reserve used taxpayer $ and rescued Bears Sterns, a large PRIVATE investment bank, so that the Board wouldn't have to return their bonuses, did you disagree with that? 

I don't believe in NO gov't.. I believe in very LIMITED gov't.  I don't know much about that event but I would probably disagree with it.  Although, on that note, I don't see why we would disagree on it.

[240 is Back]

You forgot turncoat, unhelpful, and dilusional.  I guess you call yourself a "maverick."

I'm a global realist.  We let 911 happen to justify invading arabia for oil control and permanent bases.

Do you agree or disagree so far?

[240 is Back]

I don't believe in NO gov't.. I believe in very LIMITED gov't.  I don't know much about that event but I would probably disagree with it.  Although, on that note, I don't see why we would disagree on it.

I see.

So you're okay with $2 bil of our tax dollars going to keep a private bank afloat, 2 weeks after it gave out hundreds of million in bonuses to its staff despite the fact they KNEW they were on the verge of collapse?

[WeenTang]

Interesting.  When the Federal Reserve used taxpayer $ and rescued Bears Sterns, a large PRIVATE investment bank, so that the Board wouldn't have to return their bonuses, did you disagree with that? 

I strongly disagreed with it.  We have become too unwilling to let large businesses that make terrible decisions and are no longer providing the best services/products fail.  It's the backbone of capitalism to clean out weak companies and let stronger companies grow.

[Brixtonbulldog]

I prefer to address POLICY.  Repubs owned policy from 01 to 07.  Dems have been in congressional control for a grand total of 18 months, and Bush keeps vetoing their asses.

I'm pointing out flaws here in positions of both parties.  I can bash obama all night too, quite happily   But I admit the repubs did allow pvt banks to issue predatory loans despite major historical precedent.  Can you?

I'm glad he's vetoing the shit outta them.

I don't agree with favors any more than you do but tax breaks for people who already pay too much and privatization are two things I mostly agree with as a conservative.

[240 is Back]

I'm glad he's vetoing the shit outta them.

Congress asked Bush for non-binding goals of the war in iraq so that success could be measured.

Bush vetoed it.

You're a military man.  Do you like the idea of fighting a war with no finish line? 

[Brixtonbulldog]

I'm a global realist.  We let 911 happen to justify invading arabia for oil control and permanent bases.

Do you agree or disagree so far?

More like a monumental idiot.  You make an ass out of yourself every time you open up the 9/11 can of worms and your pathetic attempts to convince getbiggers only shows your desperation.

We let it happen?  Please..

[Brixtonbulldog]

I see.

So you're okay with $2 bil of our tax dollars going to keep a private bank afloat, 2 weeks after it gave out hundreds of million in bonuses to its staff despite the fact they KNEW they were on the verge of collapse?

Re-read my post jack.. I think you're not getting me.

[240 is Back]

I strongly disagreed with it.  We have become too unwilling to let large businesses that make terrible decisions and are no longer providing the best services/products fail.  It's the backbone of capitalism to clean out weak companies and let stronger companies grow.

Yep.  And those people are bear Stearns KNEW they were about to go insolvent. So they cleaned out their treasury by giving themselves record bonuses, right before it was time to pay the bills.  

THEN they went to the FED with a tin cup and asked for help, and said "If you let us go under, other banks will fail and the market will take a hit".  The Fed, and BUSH, caved.

They kept their bonuses.

[grab an umbrella]

I have to disagree with your last statement 240, our government hasn't spent a dime on the bear stearns acquisition, its a security policy.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Congress asked Bush for non-binding goals of the war in iraq so that success could be measured.

Bush vetoed it.

You're a military man.  Do you like the idea of fighting a war with no finish line? 

This is the first time we've fought a war like this and considering how it's aspects could drastically change almost overnight it becomes a very cloudy day when you try to attach conditions.