triceps

[envier]

Did my triceps on fri and they are still soar today(sun) suppose to train chest mon. Would you wait till tues to train chest or go ahead with it on mon. Just swiiched to a new rotation and a bit more volume, I would imagine I will get used 2 it after awile. Think?

[laurion]

Sometimes people pre-exhaust their tri's before working chest to target the larger muscle better.....
Know what I mean?

[candidizzle]

Sometimes people pre-exhaust their tri's before working chest to target the larger muscle better.....
Know what I mean?

yeah but then again somepeople pre exhaust their chest before doing chest to better isolate the chest

[laurion]

yeah but then again somepeople pre exhaust their chest before doing chest to better isolate the chest

Okay so I guess I'll be clear and say whatever works best for his body he should do it, but trying something new won't hurt. 

The most important thing is to do is to go by what your body is telling you if you start chest training and you feel like you should wait, then wait.

[candidizzle]

IMO if your training chest correctly you be putting much stress at all on the triceps. i think guys use too much weight and end up being forced to use triceps to help the weight up.

[laurion]

IMO if your training chest correctly you be putting much stress at all on the triceps. i think guys use too much weight and end up being forced to use triceps to help the weight up.

Quote for truth.

[Bluto]

youll probably be fine. hard to put in more rest days as you use tri's in a no of exercises

[pumpster]

Usually those with less experience might worry about sticking to the schedule; from my experience trying both approaches there's no advantage whatsoever to work through soreness, and in theory there's an updside to waiting. A day or two delay until recovered makes absolutely no difference in cases like this.

[The Coach]

Did my triceps on fri and they are still soar today(sun) suppose to train chest mon. Would you wait till tues to train chest or go ahead with it on mon. Just swiiched to a new rotation and a bit more volume, I would imagine I will get used 2 it after awile. Think?

No. Unless it's an injury, train.

[wes]

Start your week off by training legs on Monday................zi llions do chest on Monday,so it just makes sense plus your upperbody gets another day of rest.

[Montague]

Did my triceps on fri and they are still soar today(sun) suppose to train chest mon. Would you wait till tues to train chest or go ahead with it on mon. Just swiiched to a new rotation and a bit more volume, I would imagine I will get used 2 it after awile. Think?

The only “consequence” of waiting another day is more rest/recovery time, which is never a bad thing.

It may take a few weeks for your body to adjust to the new split.
You may also want to make some minor adjustments to your chest training like taking a slightly wider grip and flaring your elbows out more to transfer a bit more stress away from the triceps and placing it on the chest fibers.

You could also, as mentioned above, pre-exhaust the chest with something like flyes, and then move onto a compound movement (presses). The chest has already worked and thus should fatigue before the weaker triceps.

[JasonH]

Sometimes people pre-exhaust their tri's before working chest to target the larger muscle better.....
Know what I mean?

yeah but then again somepeople pre exhaust their chest before doing chest to better isolate the chest

Pre-exhaustion's a waste of time - all it does is give you a pump ahead of schedule and draws energy away from the big basic exercies that you should be doing hard and heavy to begin with. I went through a stage of doing pre-exhaustion and it did absolutely nothing for me - in fact I don't know anyone in my gym who does it.

[pumpster]

Pre-exhaustion's a waste of time - all it does is give you a pump ahead of schedule and draws energy away from the big basic exercies that you should be doing hard and heavy to begin with. I went through a stage of doing pre-exhaustion and it did absolutely nothing for me - in fact I don't know anyone in my gym who does it.

Don't know about it being a waste of time, or adhering only to the stock ideas recycled from world war I about just sticking to "hard and heavy" basics. Go heavy on any exercise and size will be realized.

[envier]

Thanks for all the great replies! lots of good info-went ahead and trained chest today was not soar when I got up but just to be sure took a slightly wider grip as suggested which went well actualy got a couple of exra reps when I hit my top weights! As for the precxaustion- have tried before and it seemed to be usful to break out of a training rutt. But I am in agreement that nothing works better than the strait heavy sets. Great posts!

[laurion]

Pre-exhaustion's a waste of time - all it does is give you a pump ahead of schedule and draws energy away from the big basic exercies that you should be doing hard and heavy to begin with. I went through a stage of doing pre-exhaustion and it did absolutely nothing for me - in fact I don't know anyone in my gym who does it.

As with any response like this I like to point out that to some people this method works great for growth and for others it may do nothing so IMO try it for awhile and see what it does for you.  I also think anything you can do to change your routine no matter how small will cause your muscle to try and accommodate for the change by growing, and if you continue to go heavy all the time every workout you stand a good chance of getting injured remember anything in moderation.

[Charlys69]

In my training schedule i always separate Chest and Triceps for 3-4 days (if i don´t train them together in 1 session, like in a pull-push
system). 2 Days after triceps it´s not enough time to recuperate. But i always feeled that my tri´s where sore 2 day after i trained them, but on day 3 they feel ok, and the chest training is also good on that day.
I think you wait until the morning of the chest training day and then make yout decison if you train chest that day or 1 day later.

[Painlayer69]

Yeah.... there isnt really a downside to waiting another day.....But Being sore is just part of the game, And it WILL become part of your life if you stick with it.

I'd say just train man.

[candidizzle]

Pre-exhaustion's a waste of time - all it does is give you a pump ahead of schedule and draws energy away from the big basic exercies that you should be doing hard and heavy to begin with. I went through a stage of doing pre-exhaustion and it did absolutely nothing for me - in fact I don't know anyone in my gym who does it.

for inexperienced bodybuilders doing pre exhaust can be a great way to teach them to isolate.   i do two types of pre exhaust methods... one is with light weight high reps and i use an isolation movement. example would be cable crossovers. i do that before heavy benching. this allows for more stress on the chest and less on the tris and shoulders.    another method i use is total exaustion. i do this to make sure a muscle is NOT used in a movement. and example would be working out traps before delts. by doing this, it makes it very easy to do thing like side laterals with very little , if any at all, trap involvement. but you have to really kill you traps and get them totally exhausted.

[laurion]

for inexperienced bodybuilders doing pre exhaust can be a great way to teach them to isolate.   i do two types of pre exhaust methods... one is with light weight high reps and i use an isolation movement. example would be cable crossovers. i do that before heavy benching. this allows for more stress on the chest and less on the tris and shoulders.    another method i use is total exaustion. i do this to make sure a muscle is NOT used in a movement. and example would be working out traps before delts. by doing this, it makes it very easy to do thing like side laterals with very little , if any at all, trap involvement. but you have to really kill you traps and get them totally exhausted.

Quoted candidizzle for truth? 

[Zach Trowbridge]

Sometimes people pre-exhaust their tri's before working chest to target the larger muscle better.....
Know what I mean?

No, that's about the worst idea you can have.  If you pre-exhaust a small assistance muscle, there is no way that you can use sufficient weight to overload the bigger, stronger muscle.  Your chest may handle 300 lbs on a flat press but if your triceps give out at 225, then you didn't fatigue the chest, you fatigued the triceps.

For a practical example try training forearms and biceps before a back workout and see how far you get.

[Bobby]

Pre-exhaustion's a waste of time - all it does is give you a pump ahead of schedule and draws energy away from the big basic exercies that you should be doing hard and heavy to begin with. I went through a stage of doing pre-exhaustion and it did absolutely nothing for me - in fact I don't know anyone in my gym who does it.

+1 compound movements is always at the start of the workout

[laurion]

No, that's about the worst idea you can have.  If you pre-exhaust a small assistance muscle, there is no way that you can use sufficient weight to overload the bigger, stronger muscle.  Your chest may handle 300 lbs on a flat press but if your triceps give out at 225, then you didn't fatigue the chest, you fatigued the triceps. WHAT?

For a practical example try training forearms and biceps before a back workout and see how far you get.

Just a little different than tricep before chest don't you think?
Obviously you have to drop the weight when training chest after pre-exhausting triceps, but anyone who has lifted for awhile will agree it's not about the weight you lift but how you lift the weight.  Yes if you lift heavy weights you will grow but you don't have to be strong to be big.  Also refer to the correction above, you may need to develop whats called "the mind muscle connection."  I try to keep all my pressing movements in the muscle I'm working... it's not that hard, of course you'll feel it in the triceps too but to say "you didn't fatigue the chest" is just a little ignorant of how weight training is done.  I will also repeat everyone should keep an open mind for what works for them, trying something with good form while listening to your body will never steer you wrong.

[laurion]

No, that's about the worst idea you can have.  If you pre-exhaust a small assistance muscle, there is no way that you can use sufficient weight to overload the bigger, stronger muscle.  Your chest may handle 300 lbs on a flat press but if your triceps give out at 225, then you didn't fatigue the chest, you fatigued the triceps.

For a practical example try training forearms and biceps before a back workout and see how far you get.

By the way you may have to decrease the weight used in this situation as well, but if you use your arms as hooks as you are supposed to you can still exhaust your back.  It's all about focus my friend, focus.

[makiavelous]

First reply on getbig....As we all know soreness (not pain or injury) is the best sign that a BB has trained a muscle group correctly.  As a matter of fact if this doesn´t occur, in my personal experience, one has done very little but maintainence.  In theory and historically the muscle tissue should not be trained when still sore as this is counter productive, the muscle tissue is in the reconstruction process.  But once again in my experience I have seen that the human body is a machine that adapts quickly, especially to training.  Thus, shocking the muscle is one of my favorite training principles especially for lagging body parts.  So either way, resting the tri or training it you will get results.

[Zach Trowbridge]

Just a little different than tricep before chest don't you think?
Obviously you have to drop the weight when training chest after pre-exhausting triceps, but anyone who has lifted for awhile will agree it's not about the weight you lift but how you lift the weight.  Yes if you lift heavy weights you will grow but you don't have to be strong to be big.  Also refer to the correction above, you may need to develop whats called "the mind muscle connection."  I try to keep all my pressing movements in the muscle I'm working... it's not that hard, of course you'll feel it in the triceps too but to say "you didn't fatigue the chest" is just a little ignorant of how weight training is done.  I will also repeat everyone should keep an open mind for what works for them, trying something with good form while listening to your body will never steer you wrong.

It is just as much about how much weight you lift as how you lift the weight, or else everybody would be walking around with pink dumbbells in hand.  Not heavy weight for heavy weight's sake, but you have to overload the muscle to force it to grow.  When you pre-exhaust the triceps before chest, it has the exact OPPOSITE effect compared to pre-exhausting the chest with flyes.  Doing flyes first makes the chest the weakest muscle group in the movement, making it first to fail.  Pre-exhausting the triceps makes the chest the STRONGEST muscle in the movement, therefore defeating the purpose.  Period.  No matter how good of a "mind muscle connection" you have, it's the same reason you don't do biceps before back, abs and low back before heavy squats and deadlifts, etc.  Fatiguing your stabilizing muscles first puts you in a higher likelihood for injury, and is a terrible idea.