In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda

[MCWAY]

I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.  Those organizations would still exist even if so much as the idea of God did not exist.  But if the idea of God did not exist at all, neither would atheists nor organized Atheism.  Therefore, Atheism is attached to and dependent on the idea of God.  This is why some might think of organized Atheism as a religion. 
 
Also, there are the former atheists turned agnostics, deists and theists who say that they came to a point in their life where denying the existence of God any longer would take more faith than accepting it...their words, not mine.

Indeed!! In fact, as you already know, one of your favorite apologists, Josh McDowell, was once an atheist. If I'm not mistaken, his conversion came (ironically enough) during a research project of his, in which he was going to show unequivocally that Jesus Christ never existed and that Christianity was a myth.

Now, he's a bona fide believer. I've seen him mainly on TV specials, in particular "Who Is This Jesus? Is He Risen?"

What's a mock church?    Do they have ritual mock prayers? They must be secret satan worshipers!!! 

Beach Bum is referring to the humanist centers, from the TIME magazine article I mentioned (and linked) earlier. The article focused specifically on the "atheist Sunday schools". The non-religious parents wanted to have their godless values and ideas reinforced, along with a support network, mirroring what Christians have with churches and Sunday school.

[Deicide]

I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.  Those organizations would still exist even if so much as the idea of God did not exist.  But if the idea of God did not exist at all, neither would atheists nor organized Atheism.  Therefore, Atheism is attached to and dependent on the idea of God.  This is why some might think of organized Atheism as a religion. 
 
Also, there are the former atheists turned agnostics, deists and theists who say that they came to a point in their life where denying the existence of God any longer would take more faith than accepting it...their words, not mine.

Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby...

[big L dawg]

Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby...

I see your parting of the sea.and raise you turning water to wine,or colt 45.

[loco]

Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby...

Without God, or even the idea of God, many people would still NOT collect stamps, but there would be neither atheists nor organized atheism.

[Deicide]

Without God, or even the idea of God, many people would still NOT collect stamps, but there would be neither atheists nor organized atheism.

That still doesn't make atheism a religion. How are ser and estar doing with you these days?

[loco]

That still doesn't make atheism a religion. How are ser and estar doing with you these days?

I did not say that atheism is a religion, only that organized atheism can't be compared to political parties, car clubs or gun clubs.

Ser and estar doing with me muy bien these days.  Gracias!

[Deicide]

I did not say that atheism is a religion, only that organized atheism can't be compared to political parties, car clubs or gun clubs.

Ser and estar doing with me muy bien these days.  Gracias!

I see. Being is not a bad thing.

[MCWAY]

The claim that people who get together for political reasons or to socialize are part of an organized religion does nothing other than denigrate your own faith.

They're not getting together merely to socialize or for political reasons. Political and social groups assemble for SPECIFIC political and social purposes;  These atheist groups come together for one specific and overriding purpose: To reaffirm their "faith" that THERE IS NO GOD. That is the primary (if not the sole) reason for the groups' existence.

That's especially true with the humanist centers. The lady interviewed stated that she notices her neighbors have church groups and families to help teach values and that are a source of strength on which to lean. That's why they pack up the minivan with the kids and head to "mock church", as Beach Bum calls it.

From reading the article, it would appear that Bum's name is appropriate. It's complete with a basic doctrine ("There is no God"), a deity (man, focusing on man's "logic" and "reason"), hymns, etc. Heck, the particular one in Palo Alto literally has a "bishop"  .

It appears the only thing missing is having deacons collect tithe and offering. Of course, if this place is run on donations.........

[Deicide]

They're not getting together merely to socialize or for political reasons. Political and social groups assemble for SPECIFIC political and social purposes;  These atheist groups come together for one specific and overriding purpose: To reaffirm their "faith" that THERE IS NO GOD. That is the primary (if not the sole) reason for the groups' existence.

That's especially true with the humanist centers. The lady interviewed stated that she notices her neighbors have church groups and families to help teach values and that are a source of strength on which to lean. That's why they pack up the minivan with the kids and head to "mock church", as Beach Bum calls it.

From reading the article, it would appear that Bum's name is appropriate. It's complete with a basic doctrine ("There is no God"), a deity (man, focusing on man's "logic" and "reason"), hymns, etc. Heck, the particular one in Palo Alto literally has a "bishop"  .

It appears the only thing missing is having deacons collect tithe and offering. Of course, if this place is run on donations.........

Bunch of fucktards....I personally would never join anything like that.

[OzmO]

Beach Bum is referring to the humanist centers, from the TIME magazine article I mentioned (and linked) earlier. The article focused specifically on the "atheist Sunday schools". The non-religious parents wanted to have their godless values and ideas reinforced, along with a support network, mirroring what Christians have with churches and Sunday school.

Teaching morality doesn't define a religion. 

[OzmO]

I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.  Those organizations would still exist even if so much as the idea of God did not exist.  But if the idea of God did not exist at all, neither would atheists nor organized Atheism.  Therefore, Atheism is attached to and dependent on the idea of God.  This is why some might think of organized Atheism as a religion. 
 
Also, there are the former atheists turned agnostics, deists and theists who say that they came to a point in their life where denying the existence of God any longer would take more faith than accepting it...their words, not mine.

Interesting point loco.

So you are saying atheism doesn't exist without religion?

Does that go fro Democrats and Republicans too?

[loco]

Interesting point loco.

So you are saying atheism doesn't exist without religion?

Does that go fro Democrats and Republicans too?

I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.  Those organizations would still exist even if so much as the idea of God did not exist.  But if the idea of God did not exist at all, neither would atheists nor organized Atheism.  Therefore, Atheism is attached to and dependent on the idea of God.  This is why some might think of organized Atheism as a religion. 
 
Also, there are the former atheists turned agnostics, deists and theists who say that they came to a point in their life where denying the existence of God any longer would take more faith than accepting it...their words, not mine.

[Deedee]

I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.  Those organizations would still exist even if so much as the idea of God did not exist.  But if the idea of God did not exist at all, neither would atheists nor organized Atheism.  Therefore, Atheism is attached to and dependent on the idea of God.  This is why some might think of organized Atheism as a religion. 

Sure they would. Atheism is simply the non-belief in a supernatural being.  If Christianity, Islam etc never existed, you would have a world populated by people who did not believe in the supernatural.  Those would be atheists.  It is the word by which we refer to people who don't believe in supernatural beings. Some would argue that atheism came first, man invented the supernatural later on.

Atheism is a label to describe that little part of people that they are not.  It doesn't label what they ARE. People who don't believe in the supernatural might wholeheartedly subscribe to existentialism, absolute idealism, romanticism, naturalism, etc... any number of belief systems.

How can atheism be a religion when all it is, is a component of many belief systems.

(this isn't aimed at you in particular loco.)

I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.

The dictionary doesn't, nor do I.  The first requirement for a religion is the belief in a deity. I would say that faith, spirituality and giving all of your heart and trust in the God you believe in are the most important aspects of a religion.  A couple of doods on this thread basically said "nah, all you need is a group of people with a cause who use the media to get their message out."  It's kind of weird for people who claim to have faith to want to align themselves with the godless and say "yeah they're just like me" but considering how consumeristic many religions have become, maybe it isn't that far fetched.


 

[Deedee]

They're not getting together merely to socialize or for political reasons. Political and social groups assemble for SPECIFIC political and social purposes;  These atheist groups come together for one specific and overriding purpose: To reaffirm their "faith" that THERE IS NO GOD. That is the primary (if not the sole) reason for the groups' existence.

From what I saw of those websites, there is a political aspect to it.  Namely the liberal left agenda against what they see as the stifling Christian agenda.  That convention website had a talk by an activist lawyer listed. Another had other topics relating to "take back our rights, don't be silent" topics.  In general in the US, religion has become very politicized, so it's only natural that the "other" side would be as well.

I have faith that it won't rain tomorrow.  Doesn't mean I worship rain or sunshine.  You can also say that people worship man as a deity, but you're talking metaphorically, and all interpretations are subjective.  But that's like playing the "what animal do you see in the cloud" game.

That's especially true with the humanist centers. The lady interviewed stated that she notices her neighbors have church groups and families to help teach values and that are a source of strength on which to lean. That's why they pack up the minivan with the kids and head to "mock church", as Beach Bum calls it.

From reading the article, it would appear that Bum's name is appropriate. It's complete with a basic doctrine ("There is no God"), a deity (man, focusing on man's "logic" and "reason"), hymns, etc. Heck, the particular one in Palo Alto literally has a "bishop"  .

It appears the only thing missing is having deacons collect tithe and offering. Of course, if this place is run on donations.........

That's one humanist center.  Kooky people.

[big L dawg]

my work buddy said his chuch pastor was telling them they should vote mccain.do you guys feel this is ok?

[Dos Equis]

Meaning... you can't, because I didn't put any words into your mouth.
 . . .

Yes, I know you've already stated that all it takes for a group to be considered a religion is getting their message out via mass media. 

Talk about illustrating my point.  Where exactly did I state this?   

[Dos Equis]

I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.  Those organizations would still exist even if so much as the idea of God did not exist.  But if the idea of God did not exist at all, neither would atheists nor organized Atheism.  Therefore, Atheism is attached to and dependent on the idea of God.  This is why some might think of organized Atheism as a religion. 
 

Great point.

[Dos Equis]

Indeed!! In fact, as you already know, one of your favorite apologists, Josh McDowell, was once an atheist. If I'm not mistaken, his conversion came (ironically enough) during a research project of his, in which he was going to show unequivocally that Jesus Christ never existed and that Christianity was a myth.

Now, he's a bona fide believer. I've seen him mainly on TV specials, in particular "Who Is This Jesus? Is He Risen?"

Beach Bum is referring to the humanist centers, from the TIME magazine article I mentioned (and linked) earlier. The article focused specifically on the "atheist Sunday schools". The non-religious parents wanted to have their godless values and ideas reinforced, along with a support network, mirroring what Christians have with churches and Sunday school.

lol . . . It is . . . absurd  to say these places aren't an attempt to mimic traditional churches. 

[MCWAY]

my work buddy said his chuch pastor was telling them they should vote mccain.do you guys feel this is ok?

It's OK.....IF you want folks like the ACLU all up in your business. It's more about issues, not the candidates themselves. Case in point. Rod Parsley, from World Harvest Church (in Ohio), took a lot of flak for backing the state's marriage amendment in 2004. He is often cited as touting the Republican party. However, many of his critics didn't seem to notice that he had a number of Democrats at that rally, who also supported the Ohio's marriage amendment.

From what I saw of those websites, there is a political aspect to it.  Namely the liberal left agenda against what they see as the stifling Christian agenda.  That convention website had a talk by an activist lawyer listed. Another had other topics relating to "take back our rights, don't be silent" topics.  In general in the US, religion has become very politicized, so it's only natural that the "other" side would be as well.

You can oppose what's known as the "religious right" WITHOUT abandoning your faith in God (or any other supernatural entities). That may be part of the agenda. But, mere political opposition is NOT the primary reason why they assemble. It's beyond politics; this is about philosophy, about "doctrine". BTW, I’d love to know what atheists are supposedly trying to “take back”, considering that no one stripped them of any rights, in the first place.

That's one humanist center.  Kooky people.

That's the one referenced in the article. However, I'm sure that the other have similar practices. If you find one that differs, please list it here.

[Deicide]

It's OK.....IF you want folks like the ACLU all up in your business. It's more about issues, not the candidates themselves. Case in point. Rod Parsley, from World Harvest Church (in Ohio), took a lot of flak for backing the state's marriage amendment back in 2004. He is often cited as backing the Republican party. However, many of his critics didn't seem to notice that he had a number of Democrats at that rally, who also backed the Ohio's marriage amendment.

You can oppose what's known as the "religious right" WITHOUT abandoning your faith in God (or any other supernatural entities). That may be part of the agenda. But, mere political opposition is NOT the primary reason why they assemble. It's beyond politics; this is about philosophy, about "doctrine". BTW, I’d love to know what atheists are supposedly trying to “take back”, considering that no one stripped them of any rights, in the first place.

Why do you think belief in Zeus and Ares is so wrong?

[loco]

Why do you think belief in Zeus and Ares is so wrong?

They are real, except they are not gods.  They are fallen angels who are now in spiritual prisons until judgement day.     

Genesis 6:4
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

2 Peter 2:4
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment"

Jude 1:6
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

[loco]

Sure they would. Atheism is simply the non-belief in a supernatural being.  If Christianity, Islam etc never existed, you would have a world populated by people who did not believe in the supernatural.  Those would be atheists.  It is the word by which we refer to people who don't believe in supernatural beings. Some would argue that atheism came first, man invented the supernatural later on.

Atheism is a label to describe that little part of people that they are not.  It doesn't label what they ARE. People who don't believe in the supernatural might wholeheartedly subscribe to existentialism, absolute idealism, romanticism, naturalism, etc... any number of belief systems.

How can atheism be a religion when all it is, is a component of many belief systems.

(this isn't aimed at you in particular loco.)


The dictionary doesn't, nor do I.  The first requirement for a religion is the belief in a deity. I would say that faith, spirituality and giving all of your heart and trust in the God you believe in are the most important aspects of a religion.  A couple of doods on this thread basically said "nah, all you need is a group of people with a cause who use the media to get their message out."  It's kind of weird for people who claim to have faith to want to align themselves with the godless and say "yeah they're just like me" but considering how consumeristic many religions have become, maybe it isn't that far fetched.

I was not referring to religion itself.  I was referring to God, the belief or idea of God.  God can still exist without religion, and religion can exist without God.  Just look at the Maradonian Church religion I posted above.  These people gather, worship, exalt and pray to whom they consider to be, not a god, but the greatest football player ever.  This isn't just a soccer fan club, it is an official religion without God in it.

Religion was not there in the beginning, but God was.  Religions came later.

We could argue that atheism is not a religion, but anybody can make a religion out of anything.  In the case of those atheists in the Time magazine article that MCWAY posted, they clearly have made an organized religion out of atheism.

[MCWAY]

Why do you think belief in Zeus and Ares is so wrong?

That’s a question you should ask yourself, Deicide.

[MCWAY]

Sure they would. Atheism is simply the non-belief in a supernatural being.  If Christianity, Islam etc never existed, you would have a world populated by people who did not believe in the supernatural.  Those would be atheists.  It is the word by which we refer to people who don't believe in supernatural beings. Some would argue that atheism came first, man invented the supernatural later on.

Atheism is a label to describe that little part of people that they are not.  It doesn't label what they ARE. People who don't believe in the supernatural might wholeheartedly subscribe to existentialism, absolute idealism, romanticism, naturalism, etc... any number of belief systems.

How can atheism be a religion when all it is, is a component of many belief systems.

All of those systems have ONE common doctrine: The belief that there is no supernatural being. In its place, they put a natural being/entity (usually, MAN) as the object of worship and reverence. Or, as the apostle Paul put it, they worship the created, instead of the Creator.

[MCWAY]

Teaching morality doesn't define a religion. 

It isn’t the mere teaching of morality, Ozmo. It’s the SOURCE of such. Whose morals are they teaching? Who do they claim has the ULTIMATE authority of determining right and wrong?

My point is that, if God is not that ultimate authority, then it is man. And, if such is the case, then man is the highest sentient being, whose views and ethics are being revered and “worshipped”. That effectively makes man the “deity” of atheism, a natural “deity” vs. a supernatural one.