Grape Ape and McWay,
Do either of you believe Vladimir Putin is a believing Christian? He wore a crucifix lapel pin?
Do either of you believe Mother Theresa was a believing Christian? Her personal letters very explicitly delineate her 50 year crisis of faith that resulted in her admitting that she couldn't even bring herself to believe though she wanted to.
Her personal letters are simply her expression, during her times of grief and despair. They aren't much different than the lamentations of Job, when he went through his trials. She felt that God had abandoned her at times, just as Job did
Job 30 (NASB):
Job 30:1 "But now those younger than I mock me, Whose fathers I disdained to put with the dogs of my flock.
Job 30:2 "Indeed, what {good was} the strength of their hands to me? Vigor had perished from them.
Job 30:3 "From want and famine they are gaunt Who gnaw the dry ground by night in waste and desolation,
Job 30:4 Who pluck mallow by the bushes, And whose food is the root of the broom shrub.
Job 30:5 "They are driven from the community; They shout against them as {against} a thief,
Job 30:6 So that they dwell in dreadful valleys, In holes of the earth and of the rocks.
Job 30:7 "Among the bushes they cry out; Under the nettles they are gathered together.
Job 30:8 "Fools, even those without a name, They were scourged from the land.
Job 30:9 "And now I have become their taunt, I have even become a byword to them.
Job 30:10 "They abhor me {and} stand aloof from me, And they do not refrain from spitting at my face.
Job 30:11 "Because He has loosed His bowstring and afflicted me, They have cast off the bridle before me.
Job 30:12 "On the right hand their brood arises; They thrust aside my feet and build up against me their ways of destruction.
Job 30:13 "They break up my path, They profit from my destruction; No one restrains them.
Job 30:14 "As {through} a wide breach they come, Amid the tempest they roll on.
Job 30:15 "Terrors are turned against me; They pursue my honor as the wind, And my prosperity has passed away like a cloud.
Job 30:16 "And now my soul is poured out within me; Days of affliction have seized me.
Job 30:17 "At night it pierces my bones within me, And my gnawing {pains} take no rest.
Job 30:18 "By a great force my garment is distorted; It binds me about as the collar of my coat.
Job 30:19 "He has cast me into the mire, And I have become like dust and ashes.
Job 30:20 "I cry out to You for help, but You do not answer me; I stand up, and You turn Your attention against me.
Job 30:21 "You have become cruel to me; With the might of Your hand You persecute me.
Job 30:22 "You lift me up to the wind {and} cause me to ride; And You dissolve me in a storm.
Job 30:23 "For I know that You will bring me to death And to the house of meeting for all living.
Job 30:24 "Yet does not one in a heap of ruins stretch out {his} hand, Or in his disaster therefore cry out for help?
Job 30:25 "Have I not wept for the one whose life is hard? Was not my soul grieved for the needy?
Job 30:26 "When I expected good, then evil came; When I waited for light, then darkness came.
Job 30:27 "I am seething within and cannot relax; Days of affliction confront me.
Job 30:28 "I go about mourning without comfort; I stand up in the assembly {and} cry out for help.
Job 30:29 "I have become a brother to jackals And a companion of ostriches.
Job 30:30 "My skin turns black on me, And my bones burn with fever.
Job 30:31 "Therefore my harp is turned to mourning, And my flute to the sound of those who weep. Those are the laments of a man who lost his fortune and family. Yet, AT NO TIME does he doubt that God exists. On the contrary, much like MT, Job thinks that God either does not love him anymore or is punishing him for some inexplicable reason.
And in case you missed it, MT specifically asked that her letters be destroyed, because would put the emphasis on her instead of Jesus. That's hardly a concern someone would have, if he/she didn't believe that He existed. In fact, one of her letters (which you conveniently missed states,
"I want the work to remain only His"). She wanted the work that she did to be for the glory of God, the absolute LAST thing that would be on the mind of an atheist.
Do either of you believe Pope Benedict is a believing Christian? As head of the Holy Office (also known as the Holy See or more infamously as The Inquisition) he sent letters demanding priests and bishops all across the US and Europe send any and all evidence of child molestation to the Holy See so that proper compensation could be calculated... he then destroyed all this evidence and refused to help any of the prosecutions.
Are these the actions of someone who GENUINELY believed he would someday be judged by God? When you are complicit in and enabler of organised, covered-up mass child rape, at what point does that become criminal? At what point does that become immoral? At what point does that become un-Christian?
If these accusations are accurate, such actions are un-Christian. But, how does that make Benedict an atheist, what you claimed he was?
Do either of you really believe any intellectual is a genuine religious believer? American politics is the only arena in which intellectuals profess religious faith... where are the religious intellectuals in any other field of human endeavor?
Only in American politics? Boy are you off your rocker or what?
As for where the intellectuals are....Hmmmm....There's:
Louis Pasteur, Dr. Robin Crossman, Dr. Duane Gish, Dr. Kurt Wise, Dr. D. James Kennedy (2000 Most Oustanding Intellectuals of the 20th Century); RADM (Ret.) Barry Black, Dr. Bruce Metgzer, Dr. Ben Carson, Jay Sekulow.....stop me anytime you like.
The bottom line is that silly statement of yours is based on little more than your atheist bias, which has no root when it comes to actual fact, regarding intellect and religious belief. And, that still doesn't erase the fact that YOU have stated your would-be support for two guys, who shouldn't even register on your radar, because they claim to be Christians.
That alone, by your standards, makes them "morons" and unfit for public office. But, since you have some interest in them or even like them (re: Obama), you've had to resort to foolish claims that they're actually atheists on the down-low. Laughable, yet pitiful.
