Author Topic: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...  (Read 21289 times)

ChessMaster250

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Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« on: September 29, 2008, 10:55:18 AM »
I am planning on doing a 6-8 weeks cycle of clen and T-3 and was wondering what is the best and most effective way to stack them. I will be using Ketotifin with the Clen to increase the length of its effectiveness. So should I take clen and T together at the same time or alternate them? if alternate, should I do two weeks clen two weeks T or should I do 3-4 weeks clen then 3-4 T? What is best?

Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 12:09:07 PM »
Take them both at the same time

ChessMaster250

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 06:40:52 PM »
Thanks for the help...Do you have a preference on the T3. I've heard different opinions on tapering down. Any advice on that? And thanks again!

tbombz

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 07:01:37 PM »
No NEED to taper up or down.......but you probably should taper up, not beceause of thyroid issues, but just to accurately gauge how your body responds to certain doseages.

Captain Equipoise

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 07:42:45 PM »
Just don't go overboard with the T3, as soon as you ramp up the dosage you're not gonna have enough energy to get out of bed in the morning and you will be flat as fuck.

unless you're getting ready for a show, I would just stick with the clen, if it's just to tighten up and get in shape, Much better then fucking with T3.

Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 08:07:50 PM »
Just don't go overboard with the T3, as soon as you ramp up the dosage you're not gonna have enough energy to get out of bed in the morning and you will be flat as fuck.

unless you're getting ready for a show, I would just stick with the clen, if it's just to tighten up and get in shape, Much better then fucking with T3.


Curious as to why you think this. Energy shot, why? Flat, why?

I've taken butt ass loads of t-3 for years and never had any of this.

Further, I actually truly believe that t-3 is one of the safer drugs to take for fat loss purposes and least damaging to the body. Can it be damaging? Yes, but not as much as many other avenues IMO.

I'm taking t-3 right now, been on it for at least 5 or 6wks now, I sleep about 5hrs a night max, sometimes not at all, and I got all the energy I need. Well, let me rephrase, I sleep 5hrs a night or less, sometimes not at all, but usually crash hard about once every 2wks or so. I don't know how or why I've gotten this way, but it doesn't seem to be bothering me and it's been this way going on about a year now.

Captain Equipoise

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 08:15:20 PM »
Curious as to why you think this. Energy shot, why? Flat, why?

I've taken butt ass loads of t-3 for years and never had any of this.

Further, I actually truly believe that t-3 is one of the safer drugs to take for fat loss purposes and least damaging to the body. Can it be damaging? Yes, but not as much as many other avenues IMO.

I'm taking t-3 right now, been on it for at least 5 or 6wks now, I sleep about 5hrs a night max, sometimes not at all, and I got all the energy I need. Well, let me rephrase, I sleep 5hrs a night or less, sometimes not at all, but usually crash hard about once every 2wks or so. I don't know how or why I've gotten this way, but it doesn't seem to be bothering me and it's been this way going on about a year now.

Quote from wikipedia:
"T3 increases the basal metabolic rate and thus increases the body's oxygen and energy
consumption."


the loss of energy is part of how T3 works , in short T3 functions by burning through everything in your body, thus sapping you of energy, because your body is constantly burning fuel , and at a significantly higher rate then in homeostasis.

As far as why it makes you flat? because t3 is higly catabolic, it does not discriminate what it burns for energy, muscle, fat, etc. unless you're on a good stack of anabolics (which the original poster didn't mention) I would advise against going on T3 for the significant muscle loss. I've used t3 many times over the years as well, personally have always felt drained of energy on it, sleepy, tired and unless I was on a ton of gear, muscle was very flat looking.

Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 08:17:53 PM »
Quote from wikipedia:
"T3 increases the basal metabolic rate and thus increases the body's oxygen and energy
consumption."


the loss of energy is part of how T3 works , in short T3 functions by burning through everything in your body, thus sapping you of energy, because your body is constantly burning fuel , and at a significantly higher rate then in homeostasis.

As far as why it makes you flat? because t3 is higly catabolic, it does not discriminate what it burns for energy, muscle, fat, etc. unless you're on a good stack of anabolics (which the original poster didn't mention) I would advise against going on T3 for the significant muscle loss. I've used t3 many times over the years as well, personally have always felt drained of energy on it, sleepy, tired and unless I was on a ton of gear, muscle was very flat looking.


You are right, you shouldn't run t-3 without being on cycle...I agree with that for all the reasons you stated.

I should have stated that in my first post

Captain Equipoise

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 10:28:08 PM »
You are right, you shouldn't run t-3 without being on cycle...I agree with that for all the reasons you stated.

I should have stated that in my first post

It's all good :)  T3 is a great drug when used with a good cycle, just out of curiosity which brand T3 were you using?  I've used mostly Cytomel (from Mexico) and most recently the Turkish T3 and have felt lethargic on tired on them both.

Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 05:02:44 PM »
It's all good :)  T3 is a great drug when used with a good cycle, just out of curiosity which brand T3 were you using?  I've used mostly Cytomel (from Mexico) and most recently the Turkish T3 and have felt lethargic on tired on them both.


I've used Cynomel from Germany and France, I've used Cytomel that was from the U.S. and I've used my fair share of Liquid. Out of all the liquid stuff, IBE's line seems to me to be the best liquid equivalent there is.

deadheadred

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 02:44:57 AM »
Just don't go overboard with the T3, as soon as you ramp up the dosage you're not gonna have enough energy to get out of bed in the morning and you will be flat as fuck.

unless you're getting ready for a show, I would just stick with the clen, if it's just to tighten up and get in shape, Much better then fucking with T3.

I am experiencing this lack of energy from T3 myself. After getting to work yesterday at 9am, I was so tired that I had to clear off a table in one of the back labs and sleep for an hour. Luckily, both my bosses are women that adore me so I can get away with shit like that.  ;D

rkw1969

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 09:36:29 AM »
so would running t3 only, without being on cycle, make me lose alot of muscle even if i kept protein levels up and continued lifting. i have been lifting for several years and have added alot of muscle, for me, but need to lose some fat right now. i am 40 years old and need some help.

Captain Equipoise

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 03:30:18 PM »
so would running t3 only, without being on cycle, make me lose alot of muscle even if i kept protein levels up and continued lifting. i have been lifting for several years and have added alot of muscle, for me, but need to lose some fat right now. i am 40 years old and need some help.

All the muscle you've gained in the last few years, will disappear on t3, unless you take it with some anabolics,  remember, t3 doesn't discriminate what it burns for fuel, muscle tissue included.

Your best bet is to go on some mild anabolics while you plan on using the t3, at least that will help you stay out of the catabolic zone.

Mega Man

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 09:31:12 PM »
I've used Cynomel from Germany and France, I've used Cytomel that was from the U.S. and I've used my fair share of Liquid. Out of all the liquid stuff, IBE's line seems to me to be the best liquid equivalent there is.

Arnold, I have two questions.....

What site is IBE ?

Can you take ECA stack with T3 to fight crashes or lack of energy?

And If you take t3 for just 6 weeks, will yoiu deffinately have a bad rebound of fat gain and metabolic shut down, or will you just go back to where you metabolism was before?

Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 09:35:00 PM »
Arnold, I have two questions.....

What site is IBE ?
http://www.innovative-research.net/

Can you take ECA stack with T3 to fight crashes or lack of energy?

If you're taking a strong course of AAS and eating and sleeping right, there shouldn't be any problems whatsoever. I am not a fan of ECA at all; far more in favor of clen. yes, they have some similarities, but clen does not constrict the blood vessels and suppress appetite in a negative way like ECA does.

And If you take t3 for just 6 weeks, will yoiu deffinately have a bad rebound of fat gain and metabolic shut down, or will you just go back to where you metabolism was before?

If you eat like shit, yes. If you eat like you ate while on it, no

shadowpilot

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 10:08:45 PM »
I Was getting ready to post the same question... I have been working on weightloss not really muscle building for the time being... The Army has decided if I dont loose 3lbs a month im gonna get demoted. Even if I go down in bodyfat % and not 3lbs... 

So Ive come down from 275 to 240.. im jumping up and down 240-245 and cant seem to break through. I have done nothing but Diet and Cardio for the last 3 months.. and was wanting to try something to give me a weightloss boost. Is Clen/T3 the Answer?

Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 10:49:17 PM »
I Was getting ready to post the same question... I have been working on weightloss not really muscle building for the time being... The Army has decided if I dont loose 3lbs a month im gonna get demoted. Even if I go down in bodyfat % and not 3lbs... 

So Ive come down from 275 to 240.. im jumping up and down 240-245 and cant seem to break through. I have done nothing but Diet and Cardio for the last 3 months.. and was wanting to try something to give me a weightloss boost. Is Clen/T3 the Answer?

It will help, but it's not the end all to end all.

Post your diet and cardio regiment and lets see if we can pin point some things that you can do to improve that as well.

Rimbaud

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2008, 06:09:08 AM »
I Was getting ready to post the same question... I have been working on weightloss not really muscle building for the time being... The Army has decided if I dont loose 3lbs a month im gonna get demoted. Even if I go down in bodyfat % and not 3lbs... 

So Ive come down from 275 to 240.. im jumping up and down 240-245 and cant seem to break through. I have done nothing but Diet and Cardio for the last 3 months.. and was wanting to try something to give me a weightloss boost. Is Clen/T3 the Answer?

Like Arnold said it's not the end all be all. However, I think a little clen would help you.

tolliscd

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2008, 03:04:06 PM »
I agree with what AJ said. that being said if you can get  T3 (Trijodthyronin, Cytomel)   Berlin-Chemie, Germany  its pink pills that come in bottle of 60 with 50mcgs per tab!! BY far the best T-3 i have used and it goes for about 15 to 16 dolllars a bottle. Try and get this brand. It really made a difference than the cynomel i was using possibly cuz that was mexican t-3 25mcgs tabs. But the about mentioned is a solid product.

Always run a cycle while on t-3, like someone mentioned your body doesnt not discriminate against what it is burning (muscle or fat) ramp up your test doseage while running t-3. IMO also i would run clen with the t-3. If you are wanting to burn fat then combining the 2 is a far better option than just running one as they 2 compounds work differently in the body!! I dont know if there is a right or wrong answer on the ECA stack with the t-3, clen combo. ITs really up to the person and how your body responds. If you feel it will benefit you and you are tired on the t-3 the run some vasopro ephedrine or lipodrene or stimrex or somthing. I would only do this is you feel the need. If your diet and cardio are in check and the t-3 and clen i dont see a need to run the ECA combo but this is again a personal decision based on ones own body and how it responds.
Best of luck

shadowpilot

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2008, 07:15:19 PM »
Sorry it takes me a while to resond im still in Iraq and am limited to internet.

My day usually goes something like this

8pm wake up
9pm Start work
930 pm - I have a sandwich wrap, usually consists of Turkey and Cheese W/ lettace, tomato, onions, and Jalopenos. (No mayo or mustard)
1130pm - I have a Salad W/ Light dressing, and usually a side of fruit.
5am Breakfast - 4 Hardboiled Egg whites, and a bowl of Ceareal, with Soy milk and toast.
930am Get off work and head home
945-11am Gym, (ill describe below)
11am I grab a tuna sandwich and take off the bread. and I eat an Apple.
12-2pm is my personal time... Time for emails phone and phone calls.
2pm - 8pm I sleep

As for my workouts...
Mon, Wed, Fri  I do mixed cardio. we have a treadmil, bike, eliptical, and stairs. I usually do each one for 10 min. And increase the difficulty every min for the first 5 min. Then after 5 min I restart where I Was.

Tuesdays Are my Run days, I usually bust out 2 miles in 15 min then stop and bike 3 miles in 9, and alternate for the next hour or so.

Thursdays are my Bike/ Eliptical days, I alternate every 15 min.

****Each day I start with 25X4 Pushups and situps as a warm up.


Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2008, 10:47:23 PM »
Sorry it takes me a while to resond im still in Iraq and am limited to internet.

My day usually goes something like this
Bro, I don't know how it is in your particular situation over there. Some of my buddies who have been deployed have said that trying to stay on a good eating plan is easy over there, but I realize every situation could be different. I'll write it out though assuming yours is like theirs


8pm wake up
9pm Start work
When you wake up, eat, don't wait an hour and a half, eat when you get up.

930 pm - I have a sandwich wrap, usually consists of Turkey and Cheese W/ lettace, tomato, onions, and Jalopenos. (No mayo or mustard)
If you're trying to lose weight, mustard is fine..eat all you want, it won't hurt a thing. However, if you're trying to lose weight, it's best to limit fruit, and if you're struggling, it's usually best to cut it out all together until you get the weight off. Yes, I know there are health benefits to fruit, but there is nothing in fruit that you need that you can't get somewhere else.

If you're struggling to lose weight, drop the cheese, it's just more unneeded calories.

1130pm - I have a Salad W/ Light dressing, and usually a side of fruit.
Drop the Light Dressing. Almost all light dressings still have lots of sugar, they call them light because they are low in fat. The fat in dressings is not the problem, it's the sugar. Find a sugar free Balsamic or Italian or use oil & vinegar.

...also, again, drop the fruit


5am Breakfast - 4 Hardboiled Egg whites, and a bowl of Ceareal, with Soy milk and toast.

Cereal, there is no place for cereal on a weight loss diet. Same goes for toast. Soy milk, if it's got any sugar in it, then absolutely toss the stuff in the trash. Plus, Soy is a poor choice for protein IMO

930am Get off work and head home
945-11am Gym, (ill describe below)


11am I grab a tuna sandwich and take off the bread. and I eat an Apple.

...again, fruit
12-2pm is my personal time... Time for emails phone and phone calls.
2pm - 8pm I sleep

As for my workouts...
Mon, Wed, Fri  I do mixed cardio. we have a treadmil, bike, eliptical, and stairs. I usually do each one for 10 min. And increase the difficulty every min for the first 5 min. Then after 5 min I restart where I Was.

Tuesdays Are my Run days, I usually bust out 2 miles in 15 min then stop and bike 3 miles in 9, and alternate for the next hour or so.

Thursdays are my Bike/ Eliptical days, I alternate every 15 min.

****Each day I start with 25X4 Pushups and situps as a warm up.



Try steady paced cardio, stay in the 130 beats per minute range for the entire time...this is much more adequate for pure fat loss.

Notes on all I said:

*Drop the fruit
*Drop the bread
*Drop the Soy
*Drop the cheese
*Drop the cereal
*Drop the light dressing if it has sugar in it (there are some that don't but most do)

*Your 11:30p.m. meal, does it have protein with it? The way you wrote it out I am assuming no. Maybe there is meat in the salad, I don't know. Point being, there should be protein in every meal.

*Carbs should be limited, that's why the bread, cereal and all the fruit are not recommended.

*You should add in good fats, lean cuts of healthy fatty meats, nuts peanut butter, olive oil, whole eggs, fish oil, etc. You should rely on fats more then carbs for losing weight.

More notes on the fruit:

With my clients trying to lose weight, if they're a competitor fruit is taken out on day one. If they're not a competitor I limit their fruit intake to one piece per day...if this is the case I have them eat it in their first meal or the meal before they go to the gym. If weight loss stagnates, we cut it out all together until the weight is dropped.

tbombz

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2008, 03:50:38 AM »
Small pieces of fruit stagered throughout a low carb diet will be beneficial.


Keep some carbs in your diet (probably best to sip on some sugars throughout your workout), or make sure every time you start to look 'flat" that you have a re-feed day. You'd don't have to worry about spiking your thyroid with carbs(cause your taking exogenous thyroid) but you do need to worry about keeping your body burning subcutaneous fat not just intramuscular triglycerides (a side effect of prolonged low carb no/carb dieting).

I wouldnt eat a large amount of dietary fat. Keep it to veggies and proteins, and add in extra fish oil and evening primrose. Any extra fat besides that will just slow down the fat loss (youll spend time burning dietary fat instead of bodyfat).

get in somewhere between 300-400g meat protein everyday.

pre workout drink 30-50g whey isolate ( a must when using t3 on low/no carbs )

Arnold jr

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2008, 08:24:14 AM »
Small pieces of fruit stagered throughout a low carb diet will be beneficial.


Keep some carbs in your diet (probably best to sip on some sugars throughout your workout), or make sure every time you start to look 'flat" that you have a re-feed day. You'd don't have to worry about spiking your thyroid with carbs(cause your taking exogenous thyroid) but you do need to worry about keeping your body burning subcutaneous fat not just intramuscular triglycerides (a side effect of prolonged low carb no/carb dieting).

I wouldnt eat a large amount of dietary fat. Keep it to veggies and proteins, and add in extra fish oil and evening primrose. Any extra fat besides that will just slow down the fat loss (youll spend time burning dietary fat instead of bodyfat).

get in somewhere between 300-400g meat protein everyday.

pre workout drink 30-50g whey isolate ( a must when using t3 on low/no carbs )

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I disagree with just about everything you said in that post.

For starters, this guy's primary concern is dropping body weight, he has no choice...the last thing he needs to do is add in sugar to his diet form any source at all.

As far as it goes when "looking flat" this means absolutely nothing...who cares? The goal is weight loss and body fat reduction, the goal is not how big can he look all pumped up. Even if it was and this has always been something that eeked the shit out of me. Being flatter looking while dieting means nothing, it is not an accurate gauge to progress.

Dietary fat: when you get your body to start relying on dietary fat as it's primary source of fuel and energy, you then trigger it to burn stored body fat when the dietary intake of fat is burned. When your body is almost relying solely on glycogen for fuel, when glycogen stores get low your body will pull the glycogen it needs from muscle tissue. Yes, you will still burn fat, but at a loss of muscle tissue, therefore slowing down your metabolism and making fat loss even harder.

Yes, carbs can be eaten on a diet, yes, you can lose body fat on a low fat diet...you can lose weight in many ways that are not similar to what I laid out. But I truly believe that for optimal fat loss, dietary fat is important and sugars have no place in the diet whatsoever. And when we're talking about someone who is struggling with fat loss, these things become even more important.

tbombz

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2008, 08:33:59 AM »

For starters, this guy's primary concern is dropping body weight, he has no choice...the last thing he needs to do is add in sugar to his diet form any source at all.
I didnt advocate adding in any sugar, except maybe to drink while he is working out. On t3 your going to be burnign through a shit load of energy, and probably a whole lot of amino acids(muscle tissue) while working out. the sugar would prevent this from occuring.

As far as it goes when "looking flat" this means absolutely nothing...who cares? The goal is weight loss and body fat reduction, the goal is not how big can he look all pumped up. Even if it was and this has always been something that eeked the shit out of me. Being flatter looking while dieting means nothing, it is not an accurate gauge to progress.
Being flat DOES matter. the longer you are depleted and the flatter you are, the more likely you are to release cortisol and to become catabolic. also, you need glycogen to lift weights without eaing muscle. and you also needs carbs and glycogen in your system to be able to metabolize fat.


Dietary fat: when you get your body to start relying on dietary fat as it's primary source of fuel and energy, you then trigger it to burn stored body fat when the dietary intake of fat is burned. When your body is almost relying solely on glycogen for fuel, when glycogen stores get low your body will pull the glycogen it needs from muscle tissue. Yes, you will still burn fat, but at a loss of muscle tissue, therefore slowing down your metabolism and making fat loss even harder.  No. whether or not your body uses fats for fuel is based on the availability of carbohydrates, NOT THE PRESENCE OF DIETARY FAT. when carbs get low, you use fat. automatically. your body has regulatory hormones that make it work this way.


Yes, carbs can be eaten on a diet, yes, you can lose body fat on a low fat diet...you can lose weight in many ways that are not similar to what I laid out. But I truly believe that for optimal fat loss, dietary fat is important and sugars have no place in the diet whatsoever. And when we're talking about someone who is struggling with fat loss, these things become even more important.

certain essential fats are important. omega 3 omega 6 and to a very small extent omega 9.  supplementing with fish oils and evening primorose oils will boost fat metabolism and overall BMR (and aid in protein synthesis), butadding in other sources of dietary fat will not be of any benefit to fat loss goals


Rimbaud

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Re: Clen and T3 Stack? Please Advise...
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2008, 09:12:28 AM »
Small pieces of fruit stagered throughout a low carb diet will be beneficial.


Keep some carbs in your diet (probably best to sip on some sugars throughout your workout), or make sure every time you start to look 'flat" that you have a re-feed day. You'd don't have to worry about spiking your thyroid with carbs(cause your taking exogenous thyroid) but you do need to worry about keeping your body burning subcutaneous fat not just intramuscular triglycerides (a side effect of prolonged low carb no/carb dieting).

I wouldnt eat a large amount of dietary fat. Keep it to veggies and proteins, and add in extra fish oil and evening primrose. Any extra fat besides that will just slow down the fat loss (youll spend time burning dietary fat instead of bodyfat).

get in somewhere between 300-400g meat protein everyday.

pre workout drink 30-50g whey isolate ( a must when using t3 on low/no carbs )

Overkill.