Author Topic: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos  (Read 7026 times)

Fatpanda

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2008, 08:40:26 AM »
Ever thought of who made those studies, who funded the studies and where you read them … supplement companies … either they do a study and post it in their ads or a university does it where the whole project of testing is funded by a mutual interest party … again a supplement company or a magazine … mags have to advertise that to champion the idea and encourage supplements companies to advertise in their magazine … thus generate more money from the advertisers who will make money from readers

Of course the damage has done already and a lot of people will refuse to think twice or give a thought to what I just said cause it has been the trend for the past couple of decades … if not more … just keep in mind and think when does the actual muscle building process occur … while u r sleeping i.e. u should have enough digested nutrients in your system to do that whole building process …

Not that I hate the idea of a shake post work out or say that spiking insulin won’t make you grow but u can still get the same gains from regular food … and it will actually keep some leaner (less body fat) … but again it depend on the body type



i have read many many studies on this, regardless of who funded them, they are sound well constructed studies - the results of which have been duplicated time and time again.

i am not saying that a solid meal straight after a workout won't make you grow - of course it will, but certain hormones and enzymes are higher during/immediately post workout that optimise where ingested nutrients go - the increased blood flow to the muscle during this time period also help deliver these nurtients where you want them - the muscle - waiting for an hour or 2 ibefore eating s not optimal IMO.
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Bobby

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2008, 11:06:43 AM »
Ever thought of who made those studies, who funded the studies and where you read them … supplement companies … either they do a study and post it in their ads or a university does it where the whole project of testing is funded by a mutual interest party … again a supplement company or a magazine … mags have to advertise that to champion the idea and encourage supplements companies to advertise in their magazine … thus generate more money from the advertisers who will make money from readers

Of course the damage has done already and a lot of people will refuse to think twice or give a thought to what I just said cause it has been the trend for the past couple of decades … if not more … just keep in mind and think when does the actual muscle building process occur … while u r sleeping i.e. u should have enough digested nutrients in your system to do that whole building process …

Not that I hate the idea of a shake post work out or say that spiking insulin won’t make you grow but u can still get the same gains from regular food … and it will actually keep some leaner (less body fat) … but again it depend on the body type



What do you think about dextrose, glucose in it's purest form, taken pwo?
tank u jesus

aliamini

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 11:18:08 AM »
I am sure a lot of us have read many many studies … the only hormone that u will get with a fast digesting carb is insulin … it will store th nutrients in you blood stream … which will be done any way at a slower pace if u take in any other starch carb

During work out shake are a whole different story … here are some of my post on another post regarding some of your comments.



Protein is a bit hard to digest fast … even the fastest (Isolate takes around 40min when you body is depleted and you stomach is empty (hydrolyzed is out of the question now)

What I am recommending to a lot of the guys is … make a during the training shake … the follow is up with a post shake or a meal … the during shake should be very simple supplements digestion wise and should have very fast digesting and metabolizing components … what I recommend (and I mentioned it on this board I guess) take 40-60g fast digesting card (dextrose or vitargo) + 5-10g creatine + 5-10g BCAA + Glutamine (controversial if you are using argentine during or prior to your workout)

Drink it half way through you r work out when your blood flow is at it s maxed and you can feel the pump … and finish it 10 – 15 minutes before you conclude your training session …

People who take fast digesting carb + protein post workout to get the insulin spike and replenish glycogen and store protein (plus other micro nutrients) however they think that the protein that is stored is the protein that they took with the shake … that is wrong … the glucose takes 10 minutes to completely work in which the protein hasn’t yet … but it does store whatever protein you have in your blood stream from previous meals … and the protein that you took with the shake replenishes the blood stream.

You can have the protein shake with out without some more glucose or vitargo (depends on your diet plan and goal) post work out or just hit the next meal

If you are doing cardio after workout then you want to cut weight so keep carb during training at 30g or eliminate it

Then post workout you can take protein + slow carbs or a meal (as I said that is if you want to drop weight … and it again depends on your diet plan)

Bobby

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 12:24:29 PM »
interesting!

I don't know the science behind it, i just take 40g protein and 40g carbs immediately after wo.

If the dex insulin spike is quicker than the whey and only stores the protein already there, it would then be wise to have your pre wo meal be really high protein i guess... i haven't given much thought to the different digestion times of the macronutrients, i just know that dex and whey are pretty much the fastest digesting carb & protein sources there is.
tank u jesus

Fatpanda

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2008, 02:51:14 PM »
I am sure a lot of us have read many many studies … the only hormone that u will get with a fast digesting carb is insulin … it will store th nutrients in you blood stream … which will be done any way at a slower pace if u take in any other starch carb


really - then perhaps you should read some more studies, like the one below, that shows insulin is NOT the only hormone that is effected by a post workout meal:

Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise
R. M. Chandler, H. K. Byrne, J. G. Patterson and J. L. Ivy
Department of Kinesiology, University of Texas at Austin 78712.

To examine the effect of carbohydrate and/or protein supplements on the hormonal state of the body after weight-training exercise, nine experienced male weight lifters were given water (Control) or an isocaloric carbohydrate (CHO; 1.5 g/kg body wt), protein (PRO; 1.38 g/kg body wt), or carbohydrate-protein (CHO/PRO; 1.06 g carbohydrate/kg body wt and 0.41 g protein/kg) supplement immediately and 2 h after a standardized weight-training workout. Venous blood samples were drawn before and immediately after exercise and during 8 h of recovery. Exercise induced elevations in lactate, glucose, testosterone, and growth hormone. CHO and CHO/PRO stimulated higher insulin concentrations than PRO and Control. CHO/PRO led to an increase in growth hormone 6 h postexercise that was greater than PRO and Control. Supplements had no effect on insulin-like growth factor I but caused a significant decline in testosterone. The decline in testosterone, however, was not associated with a decline in luteinizing hormone, suggesting an increased clearance of testosterone after supplementation. The results suggest that nutritive supplements after weight-training exercise can produce a hormonal environment during recovery that may be favorable to muscle growth by stimulating insulin and growth hormone elevations.


I agree with what you say regarding a solid meal replenishing nutrients overnight - however it is far from optimal. As the study above shows a post workout insulin spike comes from carbs and carbs/pro - but only the carb/pro group stimulated GH.

Also, insulin does not store nutrients in the blood stream - it causes the nutrients to be cleared from the blood and stored in the muscle.

what you say regarding the time it takes for protein to be broken down it somewhat correct - however if you have protein in your blood from an earlier meal or pre workout meal/drink then it would be stored in the muscle along with the glucose from the post workout meal insulin spike. However as the study above shows there is increased benefit taking protein and carbs immediately after the workout. Also i have not even addressed the issue of pro/carb insulin's effect on cortisol, waiting 2 hours for a meal would leave your body catabolic for 2 hours - not a sensible thing to do in the quest for optimum muscle mass, when it can be easily avoided by a shake or cup of milk  8)

I could go on and post more studies, however I fell the above points back my claim enough 8)
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flexingtonsteele

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2008, 02:59:15 PM »
I am sure a lot of us have read many many studies … the only hormone that u will get with a fast digesting carb is insulin … it will store th nutrients in you blood stream … which will be done any way at a slower pace if u take in any other starch carb

During work out shake are a whole different story … here are some of my post on another post regarding some of your comments.



Protein is a bit hard to digest fast … even the fastest (Isolate takes around 40min when you body is depleted and you stomach is empty (hydrolyzed is out of the question now)

What I am recommending to a lot of the guys is … make a during the training shake … the follow is up with a post shake or a meal … the during shake should be very simple supplements digestion wise and should have very fast digesting and metabolizing components … what I recommend (and I mentioned it on this board I guess) take 40-60g fast digesting card (dextrose or vitargo) + 5-10g creatine + 5-10g BCAA + Glutamine (controversial if you are using argentine during or prior to your workout)

Drink it half way through you r work out when your blood flow is at it s maxed and you can feel the pump … and finish it 10 – 15 minutes before you conclude your training session …

People who take fast digesting carb + protein post workout to get the insulin spike and replenish glycogen and store protein (plus other micro nutrients) however they think that the protein that is stored is the protein that they took with the shake … that is wrong … the glucose takes 10 minutes to completely work in which the protein hasn’t yet … but it does store whatever protein you have in your blood stream from previous meals … and the protein that you took with the shake replenishes the blood stream.

You can have the protein shake with out without some more glucose or vitargo (depends on your diet plan and goal) post work out or just hit the next meal

If you are doing cardio after workout then you want to cut weight so keep carb during training at 30g or eliminate it

Then post workout you can take protein + slow carbs or a meal (as I said that is if you want to drop weight … and it again depends on your diet plan)


solid advice bro! What I do is Take 30g waxy maize with 5g creatine and 10 grams EAA/BCAA, I start drinking it before my workout is over and finish it before my 20 min cardio.

When I get home i wait about half an hour and have a meal with the same macros that I eat during the rest of the day, just with some added carbs.

I think the PWO window/shake is totally over rated.

elite_lifter

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2008, 03:02:01 PM »
It just makes sense to have a liquid protein after a workout similar to waking up in the morning. Liquid is absorbed quick and the repair process starts immediately.
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tbombz

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2008, 03:06:02 PM »
The shake is not essential … u can have a solid meal after a workout … The whole 3 hour window post workout shake/meal is a myth … it was championed through magazines … if u have enough nutrient in your blood your body will compensate for everything … the key is to have constant protein flowing in your blood stream …

Spiking insulin is an option depending on your goals … and that should be introduced while the body is pumped up and blood flow is at its max … during workout or not more than 30 minutes post workout …

Amino acid pills are worthless … I asked some of the retail supplement shops about why do they still get amino acids … well the answer was “we sell them well and people ask for it” still people live by the myth that if u take amino acids you will be stronger … yet amino acids are protein … a delicious scope of why protein shake gives you 20-30g protein which is around 10-15 large tabs of amino acid which hurts your throat when u swallow them … and taking amino acids with protein shakes is another mistake … any type of protein must get converted to amino acids to get absorbed by the body ... meaning any type of protein will get converted to amino acids (that is the first step of the protein digestion)

I guess still people get hypnotized by the magazine ads and articles … you got to keep in mind that articles are written to market a certain product or approach to ensure the constant sale of certain product …

These days you see a lot of ads in the mags saying take glutamine + argentine pre and post workout … where if someone looks close to these to substances and how they work … they compete against each other once when getting digested … glutamine digests to ammonia and argentine to nitric oxide … where ammonia overpowers nitric oxide and you lose the benefit of it … the same reason why you should take calcium and zinc at the same time … and the zink + calcium + magnesium is one of the useless supplements that u can take

BCAA is a whole different thing as I am a big advocate of HMB … for muscle gain and some medical cases

And fructose can’t be stored as muscle glycogen or used as a source of energy … even the glycogen in the liver … which is fructose … doesn’t take it from the stomach directly … the body converts some of the blood sugar to fructose … so don’t think that is u eat only 25g fructose a day it will go to the liver … everything that goes in the stomach has to be digested and then converted and transported to wherever the body sees fit


DX

sorry alimaini you are wrong. fast proteins and carbs are very beneficial before during and after traiing.

jeez dude no offense but if you are makin a livivng in this sport as a guru i think im going to start doing the same..

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2008, 03:10:29 PM »
Shut the fuck up you retarded piece of shit.  No one likes you.  Drop dead.

MASSIVE MELTDOWN  :o


Fatpanda

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2008, 03:11:09 PM »
sorry alimaini you are wrong. fast proteins and carbs are very beneficial before during and after traiing.

jeez dude no offense but if you are makin a livivng in this sport as a guru i think im going to start doing the same..

hahahaha bump for the truth  8)
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tbombz

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2008, 03:14:32 PM »
interesting!

I don't know the science behind it, i just take 40g protein and 40g carbs immediately after wo.

If the dex insulin spike is quicker than the whey and only stores the protein already there, it would then be wise to have your pre wo meal be really high protein i guess... i haven't given much thought to the different digestion times of the macronutrients, i just know that dex and whey are pretty much the fastest digesting carb & protein sources there is.
yes very smart bobby..ive been taking note of the digestion rates for a long time.. year or two... i always tell people to take pre workout whey along with post workout whey...

Bobby

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2008, 03:28:05 PM »
yes very smart bobby..ive been taking note of the digestion rates for a long time.. year or two... i always tell people to take pre workout whey along with post workout whey...

i used to do that. Whey before, dex + whey after. Didn't like it though, "eating" right before the wo. So i stopped with the pre wo whey shake. maybe i should up the p in the meal before however... :D
tank u jesus

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2008, 04:00:21 PM »
post workout root beer or chocolate milk is best.

You need to lay off those root beers and choc milk, quaker.
 
They aren't doing your physique any favors.

michael arvilla

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2008, 04:09:19 PM »
I didn't read all the responses but....it's a shake immediatley after training,then a whole food protein meal usually within an hour or so of the shake (this is just what i believe in/works for me)

QuakerOats

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2008, 04:13:48 PM »
You need to lay off those root beers and choc milk, quaker.
 
They aren't doing your physique any favors.
you're welcome to post your own pictures looking better than me anytime. :D

Cleanest Natural

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2008, 04:21:43 PM »

Relentless

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2008, 04:59:41 PM »


Add some mushrooms and that picture is perfect!

Relentless

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2008, 05:00:51 PM »
you're welcome to post your own pictures looking better than me anytime. :D

I could post a few that were taken a couple of months ago, but that's not real time. 

You'll see some pics soon.

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2008, 10:34:44 PM »
Dave Palumbo reccomends waxy maize, straight carbs and digests immediately.  It has been working for me.

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2008, 10:52:34 PM »
Naturalfag83 aka bluto doesn't care about the advice most of you gave him. Its the same damn questions recycled over and over again. He never bothers posting it in the nutrition section because trolling is frowned upon there.

Just a ploy to gain acceptance.


LatsMcGee

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2008, 10:53:58 PM »
Naturalfag83 aka bluto doesn't care about the advice most of you gave him. Its the same damn questions recycled over and over again. He never bothers posting it in the nutrition section because trolling is frowned upon there.

Just a ploy to gain acceptance.



Yes Natural Wonder is a boring piece of shit.  Someone should end his existence as soon as possible.

ironjoe

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2008, 10:58:01 PM »
as soon as i finish training i have a protien shake and then within the hour i eat a solid meal.
usually steak or chicken. some sort of lean meat with either rice or potatoes


x2

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2008, 11:41:48 PM »
Anyone who thinks the shake and solid meal post workout is absolutely necessary has ever tried without?
If yes, how does it compare concerning your goals in change of body composition?

tbombz

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2008, 11:43:09 PM »
Anyone who thinks the shake and solid meal post workout is absolutely necessary has ever tried without?
If yes, how does it compare concerning your goals in change of body composition?
yes i have. when i dropped the shake and switched to whole food it didnt seem like it made a difference. but when i reincoprporated the shake i noticed that it did indeed have a big effect on recovery time and overall growth.

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Re: post workout nutrtion and what i saw in videos
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2008, 11:46:05 PM »
yes i have. when i dropped the shake and switched to whole food it didnt seem like it made a difference. but when i reincoprporated the shake i noticed that it did indeed have a big effect on recovery time and overall growth.

First you dropped the shake and no difference, then you re-added it and it made a difference? Sounds strange.
And how exactly did you determine the improved changes in body composition?