let me be clear about my first statement. I said that the morales and values of christians are what this country was founded on. I stand by that. These men shaped and created our constitution based on their beliefs. The very fact that the first thing they put into the constitution was the right to freely practice any religion and forbidding the goverment to interfer with said belief was at the time astonishing.
The Treaty with Tripoli was a treaty with the muslim rulers of north africa. They simply stated what was in the first amendment. The goverment was not founded on the christian religion, but by rather men of christian faith. This sentiment is echoed earlier when Washington addressed a Jewish group telling them that "all possess like liberty of conscient and immunties of citizenship. "
I think this goes against the grain, but there was a supreme court decision "Holy trinity V. United States in 1892 in which Justice David Brewer declared that the United States of America is a Christian Nation. This was really just the judges personal opinion but it should still be noted.
The thing I never understand is where in the constitution is defines the separation of church and state? I know it protects religious freedoms, but where is the separation of church and state in the constitution? I am not a constitutional scholar so if someone knows please tell me.
The bottom line is that the US was NOT founed to be officially Christian or any religion, but was formed by the principlas and beliefs of christian men. The goverment was founded to be neurtral on religous matters so that people could decide what is best for them. Because of this we are the most free society in the world to practice any religion (or non ) we choose.
You automatically make the assumption that just because many of the Founding Fathers held a christian belief that it was the single factor determining the morals and values of the Constitution. Since they above all aimed for a secular state,
the proof burden is upon you to demonstrate that their christian beliefs actually played any role in this. Just so you know, most of them were deists and Freemasons contrary to popular belief.
Do you also believe that people would lack common sense and morals without the christian faith? (which is absolute bullshit btw)
The supreme court decision you mentioned is although a good point, irrelevant to the discussion. 1892 is a time way after the era of the Founding Fathers and it was also popular to debate creationism vs evolution in the courthouses of that time. Which really should have been a non issue since it never was the state's business to favor a particular religious world view.
The Constitution never use the exact wording "church and state is to be kept separate" but I think the first amendment makes this issue pretty clear:
"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."Thomas Jefferson also made an interpretation of the First Amendment in 1802 in a letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association with the quote "...wall of separation between church and State."
The treaty of Tripoli went through the entire Senate 1797 and all the members of it received a copy and later voted on the matter. The votes were unanimous! They all accepted the reasoning of
"As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion...".
