Max-OT discussion here/ various links for the protocol inside

[Mr. Smooth]

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum so if this has already been discussed in detail please for give my ignorance. Has anyone tried the Max-OT workout at :

http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/register.asp  

To sum it up it consists of one workout per body part per week. All workouts are very heavy 4-6 reps and low volume. I’ve been trying it for a while with good gains in strength but not much size increase. Does anyone else have experience with this plan?

[Hedgehog]

Yes I've tried it.

I would say it's a pretty decent workout protocol.

The problems being with the mumbo jumbo that the AST guys puts into it (Cribb, Delia). There's a lot of demagogic nonsense, how the program will only work if you follow it to the point, and how each and every exercise has been evaluated to be fitting into the protocol.

I think there are needs for training with higher reps at times, to strengthen joints and such. I like how they've built the protocol around massbuilding excersises though.

I tried it for cycle, and was not overly impressed. Didn't get any strength or mass gains. I changed from a powerlifting routine to Max-OT. Donät know if that had anything to do with my results.

I believe you will get strong and big with Max-OT.

I am a proponent of HST. Which has a thread on this board.

YIP
Zack

[soldat]

Cool I have started this "officially" today.  I did all last week to famaliarize myself with poundages.  Hedge you are totally right about Delia's B.S.  Like most people, however I can sift through it.

Also, I am going to try their little stack of whoremoans.  So I am excited about what may come of this.

[jianjohn24]

MAX-OT, I've started this week as well, it seems like a legit program, but after 4-6 reps of certain exercises, I just don't feel as drained like when I do 8-10 reps.  I've also noticed decreased muscle soreness, anybody else notice this on MAX-oT?  I checked ast's website and they claim that soreness is not an indicator of muscle growth, but I thought that the doms is good cuz it indicates that you've created muscle damage.....can anyone clue me in?

[soldat]

Well like I said before I took a week to get familiarized with the poundage because I knew I wouldn't get sore (in most cases).

To offset this I really go for failure at the fourth rep and if I don't feel pleased with the feeling I will do an extra set.  But that is just me...don't tell Paul Delia.

Still, there are body parts that this workout will not get sore.  Biceps, Triceps, Back, Calves, and Forearms are come to mind.  Usually I bomb the hell outta these so obviously 3 to 4 sets at 4-6 reps will not fatigue the muscle in that respect.  

However, they are good workouts none-the-less.  I need some strength training anyway

[Hedgehog]

Well like I said before I took a week to get familiarized with the poundage because I knew I wouldn't get sore (in most cases).

To offset this I really go for failure at the fourth rep and if I don't feel pleased with the feeling I will do an extra set.  But that is just me...don't tell Paul Delia.

Still, there are body parts that this workout will not get sore.  Biceps, Triceps, Back, Calves, and Forearms are come to mind.  Usually I bomb the hell outta these so obviously 3 to 4 sets at 4-6 reps will not fatigue the muscle in that respect.  

However, they are good workouts none-the-less.  I need some strength training anyway

The good thing is that the protocol will target a bigger percentage of your Type 2a and Type 2x fibers (fast twitch). If you've been doing slightly higher reps in the past, you're more than likely going to get a good increase due to this new type of rep scheme.

Your increased strength will be beneficial in the future, no doubt.

YIP
Zack

[jianjohn24]

Hey whaddya guys think about Max-oT cardio?

[Hedgehog]

Hey whaddya guys think about Max-oT cardio?

Actually, that is the one part of Max-OT which I feel makes the most sense, and is also something which resembles the cardio that I do myself currently.

I'm probably doing cardio with higher intensity, and with shorter intervals, but nonetheless, it involves basically the same principles of raising the matabolism and getting the endocrine system primed for fat burn.

YIP
Zack

[soldat]

I need to starting doing some cardio period.  I usually run, and I can run fairly well.  I don't think Max OT Cardio is right for me.

I just finished my first week of the weight lifting program and I am having fun with it.

[soldat]

I thought it would be a good idea to keep this thread updated.  

I am still doing the Max OT program and have moved into the "2nd program/phase" of workouts.

Currently I am very pleased with this program, I am setting new set records almost every workout.  This alone feels great, but I am also developing additional size as well.  Nothing major, but I had mentioned either here or in a previous thread that I am in a "cutting" mode.  I haved gained three pounds, and have lost body fat, which is a good thing.  I need to measure my gains in my muscle groups, but I have been sort of lazy about it.

[Hedgehog]

Soldat,
Thought I encourage you (read: harass you) to keep us up to date with your progress.

Always good to see different training protocols getting tested.

YIP
Zack

[soldat]

Thanks man!

I can do that.  I will post more in the future.  I just started this new addition so I am interested to see the difference.

How long did you try it?  How does it differ from you HST (is this correct?) method.

[Hedgehog]

I tried Max-OT for one cycle of 12 weeks (believe it is 12 weeks at least), two years ago.

It differs quite a bit from HST, mostly in the frequency and the weights used.

Whereas Max-OT trains a muscle group in a split with heavy weights at 4-6 reps once every six day or seven days, HST uses fullbody workouts with progressively heavier weights, and progressively lower reps throughout the cycle.

Meaning, you start with a real light weight at a higher reps (15), and not even close to failure. Then you work your way upwards, and into lower reps. The last two weeks have you doing negative 5reps.

Max-OT will yield great results, no doubt in my mind. Also, I believe it to be slightly easier to follow for newbies than HST.

HST relies very much on the discipline of the trainer to never go heavier or more reps than what the protocol dictates. If you repeatedly goes to failure on HST, you will soon get overtrained.


YIP
Zack

[Stubborn]

Keep up with the updates please, Soldat! I am considering a new training method and with all I've heard of Max-OT I may have to try it. Maybe next time you can include your stats like height, weight, measurements and progress since the program started? That would be great!

Peace!

[soldat]

Keep up with the updates please, Soldat! I am considering a new training method and with all I've heard of Max-OT I may have to try it. Maybe next time you can include your stats like height, weight, measurements and progress since the program started? That would be great!

Peace!

This is where I f'ed up.  I should have taken measurements before I started.  I am going to do them this weekend, but that is after 4 weeks on the program.  I do have another 8 weeks to go, but those first 4 weeks give much to cynicism...or questioning the creditability of the program's effectiveness for that matter.

Each time I break into the next phase I will give an update of where I am at and briefly describe the "experience" (thanks Hedge).


Hey Hedgehog, do you have any reference material readily available on HST?  I think I may have read a thread about it from you.

[Hedgehog]

Hey Hedgehog, do you have any reference material readily available on HST?  I think I may have read a thread about it from you.

Sure do:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=498

There's a link within that thread to the HST website.

YIP
Zack

[BurningWithRage]

its crap and the basic principles are stealing from all common logic of lifting !

[Hedgehog]

its crap and the basic principles are stealing from all common logic of lifting !

Are you referring to HST or Max-OT?

YIP
Zack

[soldat]

The world may never know...

[BurningWithRage]

its crap and the basic principles are stealing from all common logic of lifting !

Are you referring to HST or Max-OT?

YIP
Zack

Max-ot

[soldat]

I thought it would be a good idea to keep this thread updated.  

I am still doing the Max OT program and have moved into the "2nd program/phase" of workouts.

Currently I am very pleased with this program, I am setting new set records almost every workout.  This alone feels great, but I am also developing additional size as well.  Nothing major, but I had mentioned either here or in a previous thread that I am in a "cutting" mode.  I haved gained three pounds, and have lost body fat, which is a good thing.  I need to measure my gains in my muscle groups, but I have been sort of lazy about it.

Well now I have moved into the 3rd phase of the program.  However I am confused on where I go from here.  Before, in the other stages, you are given precise workouts to do.  Now (as best as I can tell) there are types of workouts to pick.  So I need to sit down and figure out what the hell I want to do, but I digress.

This program is great.  My strength levels have continued to rise every week.  What used to be a "maximum" lift are now my minimums on the program, I talking consistent, not "I am glad I ate my Wheaties today."  I have also continued to gain size without gaining too much fat.  This of course isn't exclusively thanks to the program, but also to my diet as well.  I am currently @ 210 lbs.

Well enough bull-shit I will share some of my new records.

Leg Press 900/4 three times and 950/4 once (most recent)  I have done mid 800's consitantly throughout.  Using this type of Leg Press


Standing Calf Raises
Have improved from 580lbs to performing sets of 600's and 700's consistently.   Using a device similar in construction to this...


Deadlift has improved to 415 for 4 reps consistently

Incline Bench has gone up to 315 for 4-5 reps consistently

On all the dumbbell pressing movements I have moved into 120lbs, which is an improvement.

I am proud of the last two, because for the longest time I was on a plateau.

There are other big improvements that I have made, but these are the ones that I am most happy for so I will stop.

I don't know what else to say this post is too fucking long anyway...so I guess if I think of anything else I will post it.

[Hedgehog]

Looks like you probably have a reached some into those fast twitch Type 2b, while managing to recruiting mostly Type 2a fibers. Type 2 are the bigger muscle fibre, and I think many bodybuilders does the mistake of not, at least for periods of time, train with few and heavy reps.

If you've downregulated the total volume of work, that might be another reason for the success.

Nonetheless, great results. I think you should stick to MAx-OT for AT LEAST two more cycles. Don't get caught in that "mix things up" mindset, if what you currently doing is working just fine. There's plenty of room for alternative excersises within the Max-OT protocol.

...and to think that I don't even consider Max-OT the best...

YIP
Zack

[Stubborn]

Wow! Great results Soldat! I am torn between HST and Max-OT for my next program, but it may have to be the latter. Sounds like it works great!

Well, whichever I choose, I will be sure to keep everyone updated on whats going on with it.

Thanks for the updates! Keep'em coming!

Peace!

[jianjohn24]

Hey Soldat, are u following the Max OT principles to a "T"?  I've checked out the program and I've noticed for some of the back routines, they'll recommend like 6-8 sets or something like that.  Do you add sets, or do u actually stick with the guidelines?  And what if u feel like u didn't train intensely enuff during a certain exercise?  Do u add anutha set, or dat's it?

[soldat]

The first 2 weeks or so I didn't follow it exactly because it was a time for me to get used to it.  

From then on I follow it to the letter, because I have learned that if I do push myself to the "Max"   I won't need to do another set.  The problem comes that sometimes I can't get a spot or maybe I don't get the required reps that I needed to or want to, then I will add another set.  This is basically for punishment for not completing what I needed to do.

I think you are slightly confused about the set scheme.  There isn't any workout that does more than 3.  

As far as reps go, 4-6 is the average, with some 6-8's, 12's and 20's for Abs and in the latter stages you are to do 50 pull-ups (I knew this was coming, because I am familiar with Skip's training protocols).