the denial phenomenon

[BayGBM]

Last year over in the forums at CarandDriver.com I posted a message about the trouble the big three car makers were in.  My thread was called “How to save Ford and GM.”  I got a lot of hate mail from that post for daring to suggest that American car makers were in trouble.  Several people posted messages saying Toyota is the one that needs to copy GM, that “I wouldn't worry too much about GM” that “GM's future is quite secure” and “I'm freakin' sick of hearing ‘How to save GM...’.  GM is on the upswing and will only get better.”

This week, newspaper headlines are documenting that Ford, Chrysler and, yes, GM are in serious trouble!  They are burning through a billion dollars a month, GM and Chrysler are scrambling to merge, and begging the federal government for billions to facilitate their merger.  Yesterday’s Los Angeles Times poses the question, are we facing The end of the road for U.S. carmakers?

The U.S. auto industry's downward spiral has accelerated dramatically in recent weeks. In a desperate bid for solvency, General Motors Corp. is seeking a merger with Chrysler. Chrysler has talked with Renault and Nissan about partnerships. And now Ford Motor Co., GM and Chrysler -- backed by Michigan lawmakers -- are lobbying Washington to give them cash, implying that failure to provide a bailout could doom the industry to bankruptcy . . .

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos28-2008oct28,0,1118586.story

The guys who were attacking me last year are now too busy eating crow to respond to the headlines. 

Why do people try to deny things that are so obvious?  We have seen the same thing here on getbig.  Do they really think attacking the messenger is going to make the real issues go away?  Are they afraid to admit they are wrong?  Are they just plain stupid?   

[240 is Back]

In 2003, my entire graduate class (I think it was accounting 4) and the professor all had a laugh at me, as I tried to explain my belief that there wasn't enough demand for these new homes that everyone was putting their retirement $ into.

i tried to explain that the adjustable rate would be too high - they said the dollar is just getting stronger thanks to 9/11, and that paying higher mortgages wouldn't hurt people.

I tried to explain the population here was flat, and if a recession did hit, as does following wars, then our services/tourism/construciton industries would go belly-up, and they'd move - we'd have thousands of houses sitting empty.

Most everyone in the class owned a home, many were mortgaging it to pay for a 2nd or 3rd.

Today, many of them are in some serious shit.

[Emmortal]

It's a clear problem with Americans.  Most do not have a long term plan, don't know how to save money properly, and I'm not talking about putting cash into a savings account I mean investing, and fail to see past next week.  Most live pay check to pay check and have no real drive or determination to push themselves to be better.  This is readily apparent and has been a major cause of why we are where we are today.

[Method101]

According to Bay any man who lifts weights is a closet homersexual.

[BayGBM]

That is a great story 240, but would you say they were in denial?  Many people in housing markets across the country foolishly believed housing values would continue to rise.  Your prescience shows you were playing closer attention to the facts than your classmates, but would you say they were in denial, simply defending their position, or stupid?

Have you been in touch with any of your former classmates?  I’d love to hear what they have to say now.

Any more denial stories out there?

[240 is Back]

That is a great story 240, but would you say they were in denial?  Many people in housing markets across the country foolishly believed housing values would continue to rise.  Your prescience shows you were playing closer attention to the facts than your classmates, but would you say they were in denial, simply defending their position, or stupid?
Have you been in touch with any of your former classmates?  I’d love to hear what they have to say now.
Any more denial stories out there?

I knew it was all a scam to run up the market, then have everyone cash out at 15k.
I was wrong.  it was 14k

They were in denial because they had fallen for it, and bought second homes.  Or they jsut owned one - but refused to face the fact they made a mistake paying so much.

I talk to one pretty regularly, he has a beautiful 4 BR home that's sat empty for 2 years now.  He had to move to TENN to get work.  Database programmer with an MBA (he was way smarter than me) and he ended up running a cleaning business, then losing that to a lower bidder employing illegals.  he emails me once a week asking if i'm ready to buy the place lol...

another thing people don't realize - when they're buying now, when it's low - is that many of these empty houses will be section 8 - handed to welfare people - once the bank/govt take them.  I don't want a $300k house sitting next to a welfare mom who is living there for $8 per month.  I know it's mean, but when you let people live there for free, you have drugs and drime before long.

[Reign Down]

Lets all congratulate each other on being Immensely intelligent and slap each other on the back for your extreme foresight.

Funny how you Two average Schmoe's are not in a position of high political authority with such talents.


Tell me how should the Global credit crisis be solved, in detail please.


ta ta

[ironneck]

american cars are dying...they have nowhere near the efficiency of european and japanese cars,it would take gm and co years to develope an engine like bmw,mercedes and co have

[BayGBM]

american cars are dying...they have nowhere near the efficiency of european and japanese cars,it would take gm and co years to develope an engine like bmw,mercedes and co have

Don't say that in the forums on caranddriver.com; you will get hate mail and death threats! 

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

Don't say that in the forums on caranddriver.com; you will get hate mail and death threats! 

Reminds me of youtube comments like "That rice POS has no torque" or "my GMC truck with pushrods would smoke that ugly jap car anytime" hahaha.

[arce377]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.


- Mark Twain

[NarcissisticDeity]

Last year over in the forums at CarandDriver.com I posted a message about the trouble the big three car makers were in.  My thread was called “How to save Ford and GM.”  I got a lot of hate mail from that post for daring to suggest that American car makers were in trouble.  Several people posted messages saying Toyota is the one that needs to copy GM, that “I wouldn't worry too much about GM” that “GM's future is quite secure” and “I'm freakin' sick of hearing ‘How to save GM...’.  GM is on the upswing and will only get better.”

This week, newspaper headlines are documenting that Ford, Chrysler and, yes, GM are in serious trouble!  They are burning through a billion dollars a month, GM and Chrysler are scrambling to merge, and begging the federal government for billions to facilitate their merger.  Yesterday’s Los Angeles Times poses the question, are we facing The end of the road for U.S. carmakers?

The U.S. auto industry's downward spiral has accelerated dramatically in recent weeks. In a desperate bid for solvency, General Motors Corp. is seeking a merger with Chrysler. Chrysler has talked with Renault and Nissan about partnerships. And now Ford Motor Co., GM and Chrysler -- backed by Michigan lawmakers -- are lobbying Washington to give them cash, implying that failure to provide a bailout could doom the industry to bankruptcy . . .

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos28-2008oct28,0,1118586.story

The guys who were attacking me last year are now too busy eating crow to respond to the headlines. 

Why do people try to deny things that are so obvious?  We have seen the same thing here on getbig.  Do they really think attacking the messenger is going to make the real issues go away?  Are they afraid to admit they are wrong?  Are they just plain stupid?   

The Big 3 have been in trouble for 25 years now that's nothing new , Toyota listened to what customers wanted and gave it to them , fuck the big 3 they gave us shit for years and now their chickens have come home to roost

[Bobby]

It's a clear problem with Americans.  Most do not have a long term plan, don't know how to save money properly, and I'm not talking about putting cash into a savings account I mean investing, and fail to see past next week.  Most live pay check to pay check and have no real drive or determination to push themselves to be better.  This is readily apparent and has been a major cause of why we are where we are today.

That's true for A LOT of ppl all around the world though

[Tapeworm]

Lol.  "C'mon, put 'em up, put 'em up!"

[webcake]

What's this got to do with G4P?

[HBeef]

In 2003, my entire graduate class (I think it was accounting 4) and the professor all had a laugh at me, as I tried to explain my belief that there wasn't enough demand for these new homes that everyone was putting their retirement $ into.

i tried to explain that the adjustable rate would be too high - they said the dollar is just getting stronger thanks to 9/11, and that paying higher mortgages wouldn't hurt people.

I tried to explain the population here was flat, and if a recession did hit, as does following wars, then our services/tourism/construciton industries would go belly-up, and they'd move - we'd have thousands of houses sitting empty.

Most everyone in the class owned a home, many were mortgaging it to pay for a 2nd or 3rd.

Today, many of them are in some serious shit.

ROFL

PH LLB

[sinbad]

There has been alot of denial from people who live in the Detroit metro area. There is a belief that the big 3 will always be there, even from people who wouldn't think about buying a car from them. My Mother has a ridicules amount of Ford Stock(both parents 45yr Ford employees) and we have urged her for years to sell that stock and she just refused, now it is virtually worthless. When I would talk to Big 3 employees and ask them why they aren't focusing on more fuel effient cars, they would say we will when there is more of a demand, and I would tell you need to be ahead of the curve and planning for the future, not wait until the demand is here, then it will be too late.

[DK II]

Last year over in the forums at CarandDriver.com I posted a message about the trouble the big three car makers were in.  My thread was called “How to save Ford and GM.”  I got a lot of hate mail from that post for daring to suggest that American car makers were in trouble.  Several people posted messages saying Toyota is the one that needs to copy GM, that “I wouldn't worry too much about GM” that “GM's future is quite secure” and “I'm freakin' sick of hearing ‘How to save GM...’.  GM is on the upswing and will only get better.”

This week, newspaper headlines are documenting that Ford, Chrysler and, yes, GM are in serious trouble!  They are burning through a billion dollars a month, GM and Chrysler are scrambling to merge, and begging the federal government for billions to facilitate their merger.  Yesterday’s Los Angeles Times poses the question, are we facing The end of the road for U.S. carmakers?

The U.S. auto industry's downward spiral has accelerated dramatically in recent weeks. In a desperate bid for solvency, General Motors Corp. is seeking a merger with Chrysler. Chrysler has talked with Renault and Nissan about partnerships. And now Ford Motor Co., GM and Chrysler -- backed by Michigan lawmakers -- are lobbying Washington to give them cash, implying that failure to provide a bailout could doom the industry to bankruptcy . . .

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos28-2008oct28,0,1118586.story

The guys who were attacking me last year are now too busy eating crow to respond to the headlines. 

Why do people try to deny things that are so obvious?  We have seen the same thing here on getbig.  Do they really think attacking the messenger is going to make the real issues go away?  Are they afraid to admit they are wrong?  Are they just plain stupid?   

ahaahahahaahahahaahahaa, that's the dumbest thing i heard in a while!!

[BayGBM]

ahaahahahaahahahaahahaa, that's the dumbest thing i heard in a while!!

I swear I am not making this stuff up!  That is what one guy said when I pointed out that GM was in trouble more than a year ago.  The thread is still on the forums at caranddriver.com if you care to read it for yourself.

In the same thread, someone posted a pic of a Corvette and said that Toyota needed to copy it (the 'vette).  Then someone retorted by observing that “Toyota could build a car better than the Corvette [if they wanted to]. Toyota would much rather make cars that sell half-a-million copies per year. There isn't a hole lot of money to be made on Vettes. If GM is depending on the Corvette to save them, they're in deep doodoo.”

The American car lovers on caranddriver.com are in serious denial... even now

[DK II]

I swear I am not making this stuff up!  That is what one guy said when I pointed out that GM was in trouble more than a year ago.  The thread is still on the forums at caranddriver.com if you care to read it for yourself.

In the same thread, someone posted a pic of a Corvette and said that Toyota needed to copy it (the 'vette).  Then someone retorted by observing that “Toyota could build a car better than the Corvette [if they wanted to]. Toyota would much rather make cars that sell half-a-million copies per year. There isn't a hole lot of money to be made on Vettes. If GM is depending on the Corvette to save them, they're in deep doodoo.”

The American car lovers on caranddriver.com are in serious denial... even now

The american car industry is the worst in the world. They are about 20 years back in time.

In the last years, they tried to copy as much of the Toyota production system as they could, but due to the different attitude failed miserably in most cases. It's so funny that, if you examine the TPS a bit deeper, most ideas were originally from america. William Edwards Deming, Peter Drucker and a few others. Toyoda Kiichiro and Ohno Taiichi just made these things come to life.

The german car makers aren't as bad as the US, but still in deep shit. The japanese seem to be the only ones that understood where the problems lie and Toyota will still be no 1 when GM and Chrysler aren't no more.

[QuakerOats]

99 percent of getbiggers drive Lambo's and Ferrari's so this thread is worthless.

[ironneck]

toyota is on 8th place in the world's biggest company ranking...that says everything

[DK II]

99 percent of getbiggers drive Lambo's and Ferrari's so this thread is worthless.

Your posts are worthless, that is all.

 

[Parker]

american cars are dying...they have nowhere near the efficiency of european and japanese cars,it would take gm and co years to develope an engine like bmw,mercedes and co have

GM's four cylinders are on par with honda in terms of reliability and power output, and they are on par with Toyota's 2JZ-GE legendary reliability. In terms of diesels yeah, the Americans are lagging.

Caddy's is coming up...the CTS-V makes the M5 look tame.

But you do know that BMW uses GM trannys...and so did Rolls Royce at one time...

[DK II]

GM's four cylinders are on par with honda in terms of reliability and power output, and they are on par with Toyota's 2JZ-GE legendary reliability. In terms of diesels yeah, the Americans are lagging.

Caddy's is coming up...the CTS-V makes the M5 look tame.

But you do know that BMW uses GM trannys...and so did Rolls Royce at one time...

You are looking into the wrong direction, my friend.

The future automobile is not about power output, it's about efficiency.

American cars suck in this category, i can ride a Honda or Toyota for 800 miles with one filling, an american car stops at the gasoline statino after 150 miles.

PLUS: Japanese carmakers invest into the future, you have electric cars in Japan from 2009 (Both Mitsubishi and Honda are ready for the market) and fuell cells have been running in Tokyo for a few years now.