Insulin? Risk vs. Reward?!

[StillTippin]

So why don't they just make products that have what they claim on the label?  Would word of mouth not get around that their stuff works just the way it's supposed to?  I'm sure that doing things right would create a stable, loyal customer base for them would it not?
What's the point of selling bunk stuff?  Sure you'll trick a few ppl but anyone who knows anything about AAS will only buy from them once.  So they get a bit of cash one time but then miss out on repeat orders, referrals, things of that nature.  Same thing with the guys who selective scam.  What's the point?  I've had the pleasant experience of losing a decent chunk of change to someone who decided to send half my order and then just ignore me.  Ok, keep my money, he's missed out on everything I have ordered since, orders from friends and everything I will ever order in the future.  Why would you want to make say 500 dollars of pure profit one time (no cost to him since he didn't send anything) as opposed to receiving thousands of dollars over a couple of years?  Even with shitty profit margins, which I know they don't have, you would make far more money over time.  That's not including the fact that I have personally stopped more than one person from placing their own orders with said supplier.
Yeah yeah, meltdown.

[Vet]

I know you're a newb and haven't been around the game much, but you need to realize something...
since the 90's, EVER major underground lab has worked on the principle you just outlined, they start off with wayyy overdosed, crazy hyped products (ie. 320mg test e being sold as 200mg test e) within a few months word of mouth gets around and they establish themselves, then the person running the lab starts to pull back on the leash. Slowly, all of a sudden that crazy test E from X labs that was overdosed to 320mg/cc becomes 120mg/cc .. and it keeps sliding down from there..

what do you think happened to British Dragon? and other great labs from the past? exact same story.

Yup, thats basic economics.  Anyone who argues against it is either stupid or doesn't have a clue.   Establish the market, then once the market is established sell the bare minimum product and live off your reputation.  Why? Because it takes the same powder to produce one vial 300 mg/ml test as it does TWO vials of 150 mg/ml Test.  TWO vials is TWICE the profit.   Its not that hard to understand.   These are illegal drug dealers, they aren't creating testosterone because they want you to have big biceps. They are doing it to make money.   

Once the underdosed product is on the market, occasionally eat the cost and throw out a batch of vials here or there or make sure they go to new customers or established long term (loud mouthed) customers that are overdosed.  Eat that little bit of extra cost and pocket the money that they bring in.   

Its not that hard to understand.   


Honestly, if they aren't doing something like that, I'd be even more scared to buy something because they flat out are careless and don't give two shits whats in the product they are making.    Who knows what might be in that vial.   

[Vet]

So why don't they just make products that have what they claim on the label?  Would word of mouth not get around that their stuff works just the way it's supposed to?  I'm sure that doing things right would create a stable, loyal customer base for them would it not?
What's the point of selling bunk stuff?  Sure you'll trick a few ppl but anyone who knows anything about AAS will only buy from them once.  So they get a bit of cash one time but then miss out on repeat orders, referrals, things of that nature.  Same thing with the guys who selective scam.  What's the point?  I've had the pleasant experience of losing a decent chunk of change to someone who decided to send half my order and then just ignore me.  Ok, keep my money, he's missed out on everything I have ordered since, orders from friends and everything I will ever order in the future.  Why would you want to make say 500 dollars of pure profit one time (no cost to him since he didn't send anything) as opposed to receiving thousands of dollars over a couple of years?  Even with shitty profit margins, which I know they don't have, you would make far more money over time.  That's not including the fact that I have personally stopped more than one person from placing their own orders with said supplier.
Yeah yeah, meltdown.

Legitimate question because I don't know the answer:  Can you tell the difference between testosterone (as an example) thats dosed at 200 mg vs 300 mg/ml?   Or even 300 mg vs 500 mg/ml?   Think about it, you think you are dosing real product.  You have no reason to suspect it.  200 mg/ml will show some effect, but its not fully dosed. 

Now think about that and think about the guy down the street who says it does nothing.  You are taking the same product.   You are up 10 lbs and stronger.   Which one can you blieve without testing the product? 

And its not like you can run the product to the local university for analysis. 

[StillTippin]

Legitimate question because I don't know the answer:  Can you tell the difference between testosterone (as an example) thats dosed at 200 mg vs 300 mg/ml?   Or even 300 mg vs 500 mg/ml?   Think about it, you think you are dosing real product.  You have no reason to suspect it.  200 mg/ml will show some effect, but its not fully dosed. 

Now think about that and think about the guy down the street who says it does nothing.  You are taking the same product.   You are up 10 lbs and stronger.   Which one can you blieve without testing the product? 

And its not like you can run the product to the local university for analysis. 

Very true, no one can use test and tell you exactly how many mgs are in there just on feel.  A lab test is the only way and that's not really a viable option for the vast majority.  BUT, it is possible to tell if something is underdosed.  If you are just not getting the results you should be then there is a good chance your gear is underdosed.  Now the results someone should be getting and what they think they should be getting is a whole different can of worms that is based on a ton of variables.

With me, although I have limited experience with steroids, I do not show a strong placebo effect with any supplement or drug of any kind.  I am skeptical until I see results.  Of all the supplements I've tried I've only come across a handful that impressed me or did what they said they would even though other guys in the gym would rave about certain things.  I think they wanted to believe that they didn't just waste their money and that they really were gaining 11383.92538924932043% more muscle because of the 400 bucks they just shelled out.

I would wager that anyone like that would have an even stronger placebo effect from steroids as they would expect more from them.  I wish I could gain just by believing that the cooking oil I just shot was going to slap 10lbs of beef on me lol.

[tbombz]

i dont really think its smart to discuss methodologies of selling illegal items but i will say that  sellign poor quality products is short sighted and will not lead to the most amount of $ in the long run. i know several people who are in the business of selling illegal goods and they pride themselves in always having the best quality products.

[Emmortal]

i dont really think its smart to discuss methodologies of selling illegal items but i will say that  sellign poor quality products is short sighted and will not lead to the most amount of $ in the long run. i know several people who are in the business of selling illegal goods and they pride themselves in always having the best quality products.

That may very well be true of local drug dealers, it's quite the different story when selling a product from overseas where there is very little ramifications of selling a bunk product to someone.  The way Captain EQ stated is pretty much how the big UGL's have ran their businesses for quite some time.  I do however notice that the domestic UGL's seem to go the route Tbombz said, higher quality products most of the time.

[Vet]

i dont really think its smart to discuss methodologies of selling illegal items but i will say that  sellign poor quality products is short sighted and will not lead to the most amount of $ in the long run. i know several people who are in the business of selling illegal goods and they pride themselves in always having the best quality products.

Do they pride them selves or is that the bullshit line they give you to get you to buy their stuff?   Any dealer worth a shit will tell you their stuff is the absolute best there is and nothing compares.  Thats their line to get you to buy their product.   The same holds true with supplement companies.   


I realize I'm being cynical here, but you have to think in terms of reality.  These guys don't give a shit if you gain muscle. They are selling illegal drugs to MAKE MONEY.  Its that simple. 

[Overload]

That may very well be true of local drug dealers, it's quite the different story when selling a product from overseas where there is very little ramifications of selling a bunk product to someone.  The way Captain EQ stated is pretty much how the big UGL's have ran their businesses for quite some time.  I do however notice that the domestic UGL's seem to go the route Tbombz said, higher quality products most of the time.

Local dealers are like that because they REQUIRE a steady stream of customers to keep them making money.

The top dogs are the ones who pinch because they always can find other customers or just change names . Axio/BD/IP

All big dealers cut somewhere at some time.

There are a few UGL around that provide top notch gear, but good luck finding them. Now that we have limited access to testing gear, things are going to get much worse.

There was a local guy making his own stuff about 8 years ago around here. he was a very intelligent man and made gear dosed very accurately, we even tested it several times over a few years, always spot on. well his powder man got greedy and started pinching, the brewer had no idea until a few unhappy customers gave him some lab results. he made things right but lost his ass and lost the powder man...things work strangely in this game. he now works nights packaging equipment in a stockyard making about 12 an hour, used to be rolling in cash, he used to leave his Vette parked out in front of the gym with the top down, keys in the ignition and the radio playing. He just didn't care because he had so much money, plus everyone at the gym knew him and nobody would mess with him for that reason.

We can talk about anything on here within the MODS stated limits, they already know 10 times more than we ever could, we would be niave to think any less. people have been selling drugs for so long, the only thing they need to look for is new edges in network tracking technology/shipping to keep up or stay ahead of the sources. Each of us means nothing to them and the things we say on here they have known for years.

Shit, we had guys posting pics of suitcases full of amps a few years ago for no apparent reason...they are still around too.

[StillTippin]

Shit, we had guys posting pics of suitcases full of amps a few years ago for no apparent reason...they are still around too.

What?  I want to see that, lol.

[Overload]

What?  I want to see that, lol.

This was about 3 years ago, maybe less.

Guys would just start posts with pics of suitcases full of gear...nothing else to say except "do you like?"

Then we had a few guys posting pics of their stash and others would post for comparison. those were the days!

Things have changed...lol

[Vet]

This was about 3 years ago, maybe less.

Guys would just start posts with pics of suitcases full of gear...nothing else to say except "do you like?"

Then we had a few guys posting pics of their stash and others would post for comparison. those were the days!

Things have changed...lol

I remember those pictures.  There was one with more EQ and Winstrol in it than what is in the pharmacy of one of the largest equine practices in this country.   

That was back when I didn't post much, just lurked and read. 

[tbombz]

Do they pride them selves or is that the bullshit line they give you to get you to buy their stuff?   

witht hings like weed ecstacy coke and mushrooms, its very easy to tell if its the truth or just some bullshit. i dont mess with that stuff anymore, weed and mushrooms on occasion, but show me a sack of any one of those (except ecstacy) and ill be able to tell you its quality.   

[Captain Equipoise]

I remember those pictures.  There was one with more EQ and Winstrol in it than what is in the pharmacy of one of the largest equine practices in this country.   

That was back when I didn't post much, just lurked and read. 

OMG!!! I remember those good old days... some guys would post pictures of a warehouse palette with the plastic wrap still around the boxes, about 6 feet high

[musclehedz]

I meet with my "coach" to game plan for my show that I have coming up in may. We planned out my 12 week bulker and 12 week cutter. My bulker is based on 1,000 mgs. of test/week, 400 mg. Equipoise/week, 50 mg. d-bol ED 1st 5 weeks, 20 mg. Nolva ED. pretty standard bulker, I've never ran over 500 mg. a week ever so I'm expecting some pretty dramatic results from this. He also wants me to slam some insulin right after I workout. I know that insulin is extremely dangerous and will literally kill you if dosed wrong. How good are the results from it? Are they worth the risk? I don't think I'm willing to do it but I figured I'd ask....

Yes it can be dangerous, but you have to be a total retard to run into trouble. I have been using it for 3 weeks now, and it's great. I see a large increase in muscle mass, the muscles really start to fill out and you have incredible pumps during workouts.

Just start with 4IU and increase the dosage with 1IU (upto a max of 10IU) Always have some simple carbs with you in case you feel a hypo coming up.

Take 15grams of carbs for each IU right after the injection. Decrease it to 10g if you feel you can take it. Only use short acting insulin to prevent fat gains. Take simple carbs right after the injection, 45m/1h later take slow carbs with protein and another meal 2h after the injection. Monitor bloodsugar when you start using it for the first time.

[tbombz]

Yes it can be dangerous, but you have to be a total retard to run into trouble. I have been using it for 3 weeks now, and it's great. I see a large increase in muscle mass, the muscles really start to fill out and you have incredible pumps during workouts.

Just start with 4IU and increase the dosage with 1IU (upto a max of 10IU) Always have some simple carbs with you in case you feel a hypo coming up.

Take 15grams of carbs for each IU right after the injection. Decrease it to 10g if you feel you can take it. Only use short acting insulin to prevent fat gains. Take simple carbs right after the injection, 45m/1h later take slow carbs with protein and another meal 2h after the injection. Monitor bloodsugar when you start using it for the first time.

10iu makes no sense and is rediculous ...the body releases more than the equivelant of 10iu insulin on its own..

[Captain Equipoise]

10iu makes no sense and is rediculous ...the body releases more than the equivelant of 10iu insulin on its own..

Maybe you should try 40iu's post workout, since you're such an expert... let us know how you do

[tbombz]

Maybe you should try 40iu's post workout, since you're such an expert... let us know how you do

is that supposed to be one of those " kill yourself" jokes ? because if it is it is retarded..lol.. 40iu could be used quite safely as long as sufficient carbohydrate intake was consumed...

[Van_Bilderass]

10iu makes no sense and is rediculous ...the body releases more than the equivelant of 10iu insulin on its own..

I suspect the body can easily release more than the equivalent of 20IUs too, if taking a big carb/protein shake.

I think the Russian text I posted earlier in this thread said the athletes supplemented with 1IU (one) per 150lbs of BW a couple of times a week. Ben Johnson's trainer mentioned similar protocols. The BALCO athletes did 3IU after workouts. So they feel it must do something even at such low dosage.

Palmbo may not be completely honest, don't know, but he has written that he recommends only 2IU once a day "if you need it".

[4thAD]

This was about 3 years ago, maybe less.

Guys would just start posts with pics of suitcases full of gear...nothing else to say except "do you like?"

Then we had a few guys posting pics of their stash and others would post for comparison. those were the days!

Things have changed...lol

Yeah I remember those pics. I remember one guy from this board (wont mention any names) posted a pic of boxes just overflowing with packed 10ml bottles of gear. Those were cool times to experience. SSB used to have threads where people used to just post pics of their stash, and the amounts of gear guys had was just incredible. Some of it was really good gear for very cheap. $25.00 for 20ml TE and prices like that.

[tbombz]

I suspect the body can easily release more than the equivalent of 20IUs too, if taking a big carb/protein shake.

I think the Russian text I posted earlier in this thread said the athletes supplemented with 1IU (one) per 150lbs of BW a couple of times a week. Ben Johnson's trainer mentioned similar protocols. The BALCO athletes did 3IU after workouts. So they feel it must do something even at such low dosage.

Palmbo may not be completely honest, don't know, but he has written that he recommends only 2IU once a day "if you need it".

what would you speculate the reason behind such a low doseage beiing effective  would be ?   in your opinion at what level would insulin become supraphysiological  ?

[musclehedz]

Maybe you should try 40iu's post workout, since you're such an expert... let us know how you do

Haha, with 20 IU you need like 200grams of sugar. This will make you very fat is no time.

Even on 10IU i can get low with bloodsugar (2.4mmol yesterday at the 2h mark with humalog) I rather use it safely. 10IU is great for recovery and some mass gains.

[Fatpanda]

Haha, with 20 IU you need like 200grams of sugar. This will make you very fat is no time.

Even on 10IU i can get low with bloodsugar (2.4mmol yesterday at the 2h mark with humalog) I rather use it safely. 10IU is great for recovery and some mass gains.

my post earlier showed a candy bar produces the same amount of insulin as a 10iu shot 

[abc123]

Haha, with 20 IU you need like 200grams of sugar. This will make you very fat is no time.

Even on 10IU i can get low with bloodsugar (2.4mmol yesterday at the 2h mark with humalog) I rather use it safely. 10IU is great for recovery and some mass gains.

I take 20 IU preworkout and consume about 400 grams of carbs within that two hour period and don't get fat.  In fact, I stay very lean this way.  It's the only time I really eat carbs.

[tbombz]

carbs intake isnt what will make you fat with insulin, its fat intake that will do it.

[DIVISION]

Yeah I remember those pics. I remember one guy from this board (wont mention any names) posted a pic of boxes just overflowing with packed 10ml bottles of gear. Those were cool times to experience. SSB used to have threads where people used to just post pics of their stash, and the amounts of gear guys had was just incredible. Some of it was really good gear for very cheap. $25.00 for 20ml TE and prices like that.

SSB was a disaster waiting to happen.

At the time, I warned people left and right that open source boards were a bad idea.

They laughed, but look who's laughing now (LE).   



DIV