Obama leaking private conversation with Bush

[Decker]

If you accept the premise that Saddam had WMD then yes, he did pose an imminent threat since he did work with and harbor terrorists.  Not the 9/11 terrorists, but islamic terrorists nonetheless.

Of course, it turned out to be wrong, but that does not make it a lie.  One can be wrong and not intentionally lying at the same time.

Yes it does make his statements a lie.  Bush said he would rely on the latest intelligence in deciding whether to go to war with Iraq.

The latest intelligence said Iraq was not threat.

Bush told the country that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US...a direct contradiction of the latest intelligence.

The WMD inspectors were finding no WMDs in IRaq.

Bush ordered the invasion regardless of that latest information putatively to disarm a country that was apparently disarmed already.

Those are acts of intention...they aren't mistakes.

How are they not lies based on the man's own criterion (latest intelligence) determining whether the US goes to war or not?

[Decker]

which is why we should just accept that we cant beat terrorism and suck it up when 4,000 of us die by terrorist hands.  we cant fight them all right?  all that jibberish that all of our presidents talk about "fighting terrorism" is a joke.  we cant hold any one country accountable.  they are all accountable.  they are all allowing terrorist sects to flourish and finance themselves. 

How did attacking Iraq battle terrorism?

By all accounts, after the invasion, the ranks of Al Qaeda swelled.

Is it some sort of reverse psychology at work here?

[OzmO]

which is why we should just accept that we cant beat terrorism and suck it up when 4,000 of us die by terrorist hands.  we cant fight them all right?  all that jibberish that all of our presidents talk about "fighting terrorism" is a joke.  we cant hold any one country accountable.  they are all accountable.  they are all allowing terrorist sects to flourish and finance themselves. 

No, we should use good judgment and discretion.

Iraq was not an example of that.

I'll give you points for that playground style comeback though 

[a_joker10]

So why did Bush tell the country the exact opposite of the CIA's determination that IRaq presented no threat to the US?

And why did the Bush office rewrite the conclusions of the CIA in a white paper distributed to the Congress (It's a summary) that was packed full of exaggerations and lies?

See I think Bush's active fraud is enough to show that he took this country to war under false pretenses.

Did Congress have access to the CIA papers?  Yes.  Was Congress lazy in relying on the president's word/paper?  Yes.

Does that somehow absolve Bush of his active fraud in going to war?  No.

In my opinion congress is culpable for what happened. Both Republican and Democrat.

They are supposed to be the ones keeping checks on these organizations.
I feel the same about FEMA.

It wasn't the president cutting out the levees to build a bridge to nowhere.

It has been far too long that the  president has been accountable for things that congress and the senate does or doesn't do.

This includes pork barreling, spending mismanagement, tax increases/decreases, security, intelligence, etc.

In the end congress has every right and duty to legislate and the President has every right and responsibility to over see it.
But the president can't make law only veto it.

[Decker]

In my opinion congress is culpable for what happened. Both Republican and Democrat.

They are supposed to be the ones keeping checks on these organizations.
I feel the same about FEMA.

It wasn't the president cutting out the levees to build a bridge to nowhere.

It has been far too long that the  president has been accountable for things that congress and the senate does or doesn't do.

This includes pork barreling, spending mismanagement, tax increases/decreases, security, intelligence, etc.

In the end congress has every right and duty to legislate and the President has every right and responsibility to over see it.
But the president can't make law only veto it.

Congress was cowed by the times.  Bush is very clever.  He knew he had the Congress in his back pocket.  Recall that he pushed for the invasion of Iraq on the heels of the 9/11 attacks.  He exploited Congressional goodwill/fears with his lies.

He started the Push for a ground war and all the democratic quotes talking about disarming Hussein do not change that. 

Only the president of the USA could have ordered that attack, not the Congress, not democrats, not the republicans, only the president.

[Soul Crusher]

How did attacking Iraq battle terrorism?

By all accounts, after the invasion, the ranks of Al Qaeda swelled.

Is it some sort of reverse psychology at work here?

The idea was that Iraq would draw terrorists lies flies to dung, and that is what happened.

We have no been attacked since 9/11 and Osama himself said Iraq was the central front in the war against the US.

We were able to kill many known terrorists and it is better to kill them there than over here.

Am I happy about the way the war was waged? No.

However, the fact of the matter is that there have been no terrorist attacks against the U.S. since 2001, unlike during when Clinton was president and the Cole, WTC, and the Kobar Towers were all bombed.

[Decker]

The idea was that Iraq would draw terrorists lies flies to dung, and that is what happened.

If you call less than 15% of the Iraqi resistance some sort of terrorist magnet, then you might have something.

We have no been attacked since 9/11 and Osama himself said Iraq was the central front in the war against the US.

How is this relevant?  Wasn't once enough?

We were able to kill many known terrorists and it is better to kill them there than over here.

That's a talking point.

Am I happy about the way the war was waged? No.

However, the fact of the matter is that there have been no terrorist attacks against the U.S. since 2001, unlike during when Clinton was president and the Cole, WTC, and the Kobar Towers were all bombed.

How many people died in those attacks on Clinton's watch?

Now McVeigh, the disgruntled rightwinger who bombed the Murrah Building, there's one terrorist Clinton did catch.

[Soul Crusher]

Congress was cowed by the times.  Bush is very clever.  He knew he had the Congress in his back pocket.  Recall that he pushed for the invasion of Iraq on the heels of the 9/11 attacks.  He exploited Congressional goodwill/fears with his lies.

He started the Push for a ground war and all the democratic quotes talking about disarming Hussein do not change that. 

Only the president of the USA could have ordered that attack, not the Congress, not democrats, not the republicans, only the president.

I thought he was dumbest president ever??? 

Its amazing someone so dumb was able to fool the brilliant MENSA members in the RAT party. 

[Soul Crusher]

The islamic fanatic barbarians will never stop.  We have been fighting them since day one when Thomas Jefferson had to send the navy to take care of the Barbary Pirates.  Pershing had to deal with these savages too as had the rest of the world since islam became a major religion.  It is a religion of war and agression and will always be till the end of time.

The islamic fanatics will never stop, that is the point.  Only liberals and fools believe that the terrorists were done once they pulled off 9/11.

If we do not keep vigilent at all times, we will have far worse than 9/11 sooner than you think.

   

[IFBBwannaB]

The islamic fanatic barbarians will never stop.  We have been fighting them since day one when Thomas Jefferson had to send the navy to take care of the Barbary Pirates.  Pershing had to deal with these savages too as had the rest of the world since islam became a major religion.  It is a religion of war and agression and will always be till the end of time.

The islamic fanatics will never stop, that is the point.  Only liberals and fools believe that the terrorists were done once they pulled off 9/11.

If we do not keep vigilent at all times, we will have far worse than 9/11 sooner than you think.

   

Exactly , and I find it hilarious that people try to make Saddam sound like an angel, the man had and used chem/bio weapons and almost achieved nuclear capabilities and his support of terror was public  , combine all of that together and he's is a valid target.

Furthermore....I'm still trying to understand what Decker claims that Bush wanted to achieve in Iraq...the "genocide" he think that happens there? 
He got all those conspiracy theories with out a goal...just for the sake of theory 

[Decker]

I thought he was dumbest president ever??? 

Its amazing someone so dumb was able to fool the brilliant MENSA members in the RAT party. 

Let me guess, you're a freeper.

Even George Dumbya Bush could have figured that one out.

When the president of the US makes assertions about something as grave as war, it is almost beyond the pale to think that he would lie.  Bush lied.  Bush lied dozens of times.  It's documented.

Bush is stupid when he discusses anything not death or torture or theft related.  On those matters, he's quite adept.

He's a fucking parasitic predator.

[Decker]

Exactly , and I find it hilarious that people try to make Saddam sound like an angel, the man had and used chem/bio weapons and almost achieved nuclear capabilities and his support of terror was public  , combine all of that together and he's is a valid target.

Furthermore....I'm still trying to understand what Decker claims that Bush wanted to achieve in Iraq...the "genocide" he think that happens there? 
He got all those conspiracy theories with out a goal...just for the sake of theory 

What?

[Soul Crusher]

Let me guess, you're a freeper.

Even George Dumbya Bush could have figured that one out.

When the president of the US makes assertions about something as grave as war, it is almost beyond the pale to think that he would lie.  Bush lied.  Bush lied dozens of times.  It's documented.

Bush is stupid when he discusses anything not death or torture or theft related.  On those matters, he's quite adept.

He's a fucking parasitic predator.

1.  I like Freerepublic.com.  Some of the posters are silly, but it is far more sane and rational than DU or Daily Kos.

2.  I dont like GWB.  From spending, to amensty for illegals, to dubai ports, to Harriet Meirs, to Prescription Drug bill, to CFR, to No Child Left Behind, to Katrina, he has been a disaster.  He is not a conservative, but a big govt. statist.

3.  GWB is so dumb that he was able to not only fool the RAT party over the Iraq war, but was able to fool the RAT party in two elections in both 2000 and 2004.  Really amazing for the dumbest president ever to beat the genius Al Gore and John Kerry.   

[bears]

No, we should use good judgment and discretion.

Iraq was not an example of that.

I'll give you points for that playground style comeback though 

it wasnt a comeback.  just an observation.  but that is your plan to combat terrorism?  use judgement and discretion?  wow.  that sounds like a real great plan.  just admit the fact that you have NO idea how to fight terrorism.  why?  because there isnt one.  simple as that. 

[bears]

How did attacking Iraq battle terrorism?

By all accounts, after the invasion, the ranks of Al Qaeda swelled.

Is it some sort of reverse psychology at work here?

what do you think bush should have done after 9/11?  honestly not trying to fight here.  just curious as to what you think bush should have done.

[Soul Crusher]

it wasnt a comeback.  just an observation.  but that is your plan to combat terrorism?  use judgement and discretion?  wow.  that sounds like a real great plan.  just admit the fact that you have NO idea how to fight terrorism.  why?  because there isnt one.  simple as that. 

The history of mankind shows that war is a reality.  War will be with us forever.  If Cain and Able could not live with each other, how are countries going to do it?

GWB had to go to war after 9/11 and Al gore would have done the same thing. 

[bears]

The history of mankind shows that war is a reality.  War will be with us forever.  If Cain and Able could not live with each other, how are countries going to do it?

GWB had to go to war after 9/11 and Al gore would have done the same thing. 

now that is one of the few honest statements ive read on this board.  you my friend are a realist.  that i can respect. 

[Decker]

what do you think bush should have done after 9/11?  honestly not trying to fight here.  just curious as to what you think bush should have done.

I think he should have worked with countries around the world to track down and bring to justice OBL and his Al Qaeda operatives.

Bush did not do that simple task.

It's simple in its clarity yet complex in its execution.  Bush doesn't do complex obviously.

[Decker]

The history of mankind shows that war is a reality.  War will be with us forever.  If Cain and Able could not live with each other, how are countries going to do it?

GWB had to go to war after 9/11 and Al gore would have done the same thing. 

Homer opined that war is part of the human condition.  We are a warlike people.

I am not such a fatalist. 

I believe in free will to the extent that it was not written in stone that a war had to happen as a result of the attacks of 9/11.

That's too easy.  Too simple and it justifies too much evil.

[garebear]

Blah, blah, blah. This is a broing as thread.

[IFBBwannaB]

I think he should have worked with countries around the world to track down and bring to justice OBL and his Al Qaeda operatives.

Bush did not do that simple task.

It's simple in its clarity yet complex in its execution.  Bush doesn't do complex obviously.

Going into Afghan had nothing to do with tracking Al Qaeda?

Other countries won't help without a major action like going into war and threatening them with sanctions, everybody prefer to sit on the sides and let other do the job, although the wave of terrorism in Europe helped the European union wake up a little.

[garebear]

Going into Afghan had nothing to do with tracking Al Qaeda?

Other countries won't help without a major action like going into war and threatening them with sanctions, everybody prefer to sit on the sides and let other do the job, although the wave of terrorism in Europe helped the European union wake up a little.

Have you ever considered switching to decaf?

[IFBBwannaB]

Have you ever considered switching to decaf?

I stopped drinking caffeine based drinks a week ago 

Thanks for asking 

[garebear]

I stopped drinking caffeine based drinks a week ago 

Thanks for asking 

You know how worried I get.

[Soul Crusher]

I think he should have worked with countries around the world to track down and bring to justice OBL and his Al Qaeda operatives.

Bush did not do that simple task.

It's simple in its clarity yet complex in its execution.  Bush doesn't do complex obviously.

That is pure 100% nonsense.  GWB for weeks told the taliban that he would not invade if they turned over Bin Laden and the people responsible.  They refused to do it.