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Author Topic: Hot Stove thread.  (Read 3985 times)
CalvinH
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« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2008, 11:18:06 AM »

How much does a decent seat go for to see the yanks play?


The Yanks are selling tickets to one of their preseason games against the Cubs for the same prices that were charged in 1923 Cheesy
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body88
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« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2008, 03:40:01 PM »

Damn, my Tigers are 2nd in payroll and they put a shitty product out on the field last year..


Exactly why spending as much as you can on big names wont work without homegrown depth.
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« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2008, 03:50:23 PM »


Exactly why spending as much as you can on big names wont work without homegrown depth.

We had some good homegrown talent with our pitchers but i know we went out and got Sheffield, Ordonez and Willis.
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body88
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« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2008, 08:45:23 PM »

We had some good homegrown talent with our pitchers but i know we went out and got Sheffield, Ordonez and Willis.

No Question, but my point is that in todays MLB there is more value in developing your own players than tossing tons of cash at a bunch of free agents.  Over the last few years, the sox most clutch guys were the ones they grew on their own.  The Yankees are going to be very good, but teams like the Rays will be just as good with their own talent, and teams built this way have more ability to band together as a team unit when the going get tough in the playoffs.  Like it or not, big time FA's have big egos, and if the pat and paste method worked the Yankees would have 8 titles over the last decade.  Further more, the strongest Yankee teams were nothing like their current mega rosters.
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Grape Ape
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« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2008, 06:00:11 AM »

Just remember Yankees fans, how much money did Tampa spend to win the pennet last year? 

Yes, the Rays were really good last year, and will be for a few years. 

But, remember, the only way they were able to get that that point was to finish last for 10 years and get the #1 or so pick in the draft.    That's not the way any other wants to/can afford to build a baseball team.  It's an anomaly.
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body88
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« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2008, 11:38:22 AM »

Yes, the Rays were really good last year, and will be for a few years. 

But, remember, the only way they were able to get that that point was to finish last for 10 years and get the #1 or so pick in the draft.    That's not the way any other wants to/can afford to build a baseball team.  It's an anomaly.


Neither is spending 400+ million on a bunch of allstars.  It's a healthy medium of both.  Considering the Yankees results over the last 8 years, it would be an anomaly if their spending worked this year.
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Grape Ape
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« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2008, 04:08:23 PM »

Neither is spending 400+ million on a bunch of allstars.  It's a healthy medium of both.  Considering the Yankees results over the last 8 years, it would be an anomaly if their spending worked this year.

No, it wouldn't.  This year, they spent their money on prospects who are young and in their statistical prime.  They spent it on players who were elite at their positions.  It's not being spent on aging ex-steroid users and old, broken down pitchers.

Adding that to a team is not detrimental.  The money's irrelevant if you can afford it.  The Yankees did not lose since '00 because they signed a few expensive free agents.  They lost because they spent the money poorly, had a lot of injuries, didn't develop a good enough pitching staff, and had some bad luck.

But, to your point about having a mix., they do have a great combination of home grown talent combined with them.  If Pettitte comes back or they go with Hughes OR Kennedy as their #5, 3 out of their 5 starters, their closer, some middle relief and 4 of 9 position players are all from the farm.  That comes to over 40% of the 25 man roster.
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« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2008, 02:10:18 PM »

Neither is spending 400+ million on a bunch of allstars.  It's a healthy medium of both.  Considering the Yankees results over the last 8 years, it would be an anomaly if their spending worked this year.

Why would spending work vs not work?  It all comes down to the players being acquired, not how they're acquired.  I've read that spending is what's responsible for no WS for the Yanks since 2000, which makes absolutely no sense.  What's been responsible is what is usually responsible: lack of good pitching combined with awful luck.
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body88
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« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2008, 04:00:15 PM »

Why would spending work vs not work?  It all comes down to the players being acquired, not how they're acquired.  I've read that spending is what's responsible for no WS for the Yanks since 2000, which makes absolutely no sense.  What's been responsible is what is usually responsible: lack of good pitching combined with awful luck.

That and spending a ton of money on players that didn't help them win anything.  Do you think a big name FA is going to play as hard day in and day out as a very talented player who was brought up from the farm?  When big stars get their millions a lot of them get lazy.  Saying bad luck has to do with the Yankees woes is an excuse.  This is a pro team, with pro scouts and a rich history.  Spending a ton of money on free agents simply has not worked for them thus far.  Every team in the MLB can cite bad luck as their reason for losing......thats an excuse, and one that would get you laughed out of every MLB dugout.
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« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2008, 05:44:40 PM »

That and spending a ton of money on players that didn't help them win anything.  Do you think a big name FA is going to play as hard day in and day out as a very talented player who was brought up from the farm? 

Of course they do.  Derek Jeter has one of the biggest contracts in baseball and whether you love him or hate him you can't ever claim he doesn't play every single out of every game he's in.  Oh, I get it - he's "homegrown" so he's immune to money, then?  Please.  This is just fan crap - the tough, gritty home town guy vs the big, bad mercenary who doesn't care.  Funny, Manny Ramirez and Keith Foulke seemed to work out just fine for Boston in '04.  I guess they forgot they weren't homegrown.
When big stars get their millions a lot of them get lazy. 

Of course.  I'm sure you have reams of data backing this up, too.

Saying bad luck has to do with the Yankees woes is an excuse.  This is a pro team, with pro scouts and a rich history.  Spending a ton of money on free agents simply has not worked for them thus far.  Every team in the MLB can cite bad luck as their reason for losing......thats an excuse, and one that would get you laughed out of every MLB dugout.

When I say "bad luck" I'm pointing to the vagaries of baseball, not a "woe-is-us" line of argument.  Wang getting hurt running the basepaths in an interleague game is bad luck, for example.  Our lineup collectively having a down year due to injuries and lack of hitting in high leverage spots is luck.  Yes, all teams have to deal with it, and some times your team gets hit with it harder than others.  Not meant as an excuse, just a factor for any sport.  It's why every prediction for any team always starts out with "if they stay healthy..."

The point is trying to argue that the Yankees haven't won because they've signed expensive players is just silly.  It's applying the same value to a CC Sabathia as you would a Carl Pavano.  We've seen all different types of teams, homegrown, FA heavy, players traded for, win championships.  The fact that the Yankees didn't make the playoffs for the FIRST TIME since 1995 suggests that actually, their player acquisition has worked out quite well for the most part.  Winning a WS is not easy, regardless of who is on your roster.  The other team is talented and they want to win too.
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« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2009, 09:06:54 PM »

according to "ESPN" the Red sox are close to signing Smoltz.
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CalvinH
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« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2009, 11:49:06 AM »

according to "ESPN" the Red sox are close to signing Smoltz.



Looks like a done deal.
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Grape Ape
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« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2009, 12:32:08 PM »

Great upside if he can bounce back.

41 years olds coming of labrum surgury is a risk not too many teams could afford, but the sox can, so it's a good move.

After this and the Penny signing, I'm guessing Bucchholz is not in the plans right now.
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body88
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« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2009, 12:48:33 PM »

Great upside if he can bounce back.

41 years olds coming of labrum surgury is a risk not too many teams could afford, but the sox can, so it's a good move.

After this and the Penny signing, I'm guessing Bucchholz is not in the plans right now.

Depends, imo.  They need all the pitching they can get.  Maybe they are trying to work a deal, and Clay is the guy to go if that happens.
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Grape Ape
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« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2009, 01:01:54 PM »

Depends, imo.  They need all the pitching they can get.  Maybe they are trying to work a deal, and Clay is the guy to go if that happens.

I actually just posted that on my main board.  I was thinking of the rumored  Bucchholz for Saltilamaccia deals.

Somebody mentioned rumors of a Wakefield retirement.  I haven't heard this before, have you?
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