Author Topic: I hope all the opponents of abortion are willing to personally adopt all of  (Read 5856 times)

tu_holmes

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I agree.  It really makes no sense.  There is no provable link between abortion and crime.

Reminds me of Minority Report.  :)

You just don't like the statistical correlation, so you ignore... That's fine, but it's still a correlation.

Just like correlations in sports teams do actually count... 90% of the time if you're a football team and you run less yardage and you throw less yardage, you lose... The same can be said of these statistics.

While you may not like the statistics... You can not say there is no correlation because you want there to be none.

Roe v. Wade and time show there is a direct correlation between the drop in crime in the 90s and the fact that almost exactly 20 years earlier abortion was legalized across the board.

You might not like it... but statistics show that is the only correlating item that holds true.

Policing tactics didn't do it... or else many cities where they had more police per capita would have had less crime, but they did not... many times they had more.

So if you say it wasn't abortion, then it is up to YOU to show me what changed to cause the drop in crime in the early - mid 90s.

My statistics correlate... do yours?


bears

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Actually, yes we did have a mass influx of criminals... Notice how Crime was on a rampant rise until the mid 90s?

You will probably ignore the statistics because you don't like them... but there are a few facts you should think about.

1. Most crimes occur by those between the ages of 15 and 30.
2. Crime was on a rampant spike until the early 90s... Even so much that Clinton mentioned it in a state of the Union address.
3. Roe v. Wade was 1973.
4. After 1994 crime started to tumble by huge percentages.

Now... you take those 4 facts and you put them together... and YES... a large portion of those 45 Million would probably be criminals.

You said your mother had you when she was 15... Great... Notice how she WANTED you... Those who were aborted were NOT wanted.

Those who are NOT wanted will by most statistical standpoints become criminals.

Your situation isn't even relevant to my points what so ever.

abortion was never meant to be a means to cure social ills.  it was meant to be a last resort for women who found themselves in very bad situations.  you are seriously misguided.  adolf hitler had ideas similar to yours at one time.  you need to seriously rethink how you defend abortion.  the people who passed roe v wade and had their heart in the right place would never want to associate themselves with a person who thought like you.  

lets take your misguided and ignorant argument a little further.  you know we can deter crime even more in this country if we didnt allow people who make under 15k a year to have babies?  the overwhelming majority of our felons are from very low income households.  do you think we should mandate abortions for lower income families?   do you know how much money we could be saving if we euthanized all of our old and indigent?  we could wipe out the national debt in under 10 years.

Dos Equis

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You just don't like the statistical correlation, so you ignore... That's fine, but it's still a correlation.

Just like correlations in sports teams do actually count... 90% of the time if you're a football team and you run less yardage and you throw less yardage, you lose... The same can be said of these statistics.

While you may not like the statistics... You can not say there is no correlation because you want there to be none.

Roe v. Wade and time show there is a direct correlation between the drop in crime in the 90s and the fact that almost exactly 20 years earlier abortion was legalized across the board.

You might not like it... but statistics show that is the only correlating item that holds true.

Policing tactics didn't do it... or else many cities where they had more police per capita would have had less crime, but they did not... many times they had more.

So if you say it wasn't abortion, then it is up to YOU to show me what changed to cause the drop in crime in the early - mid 90s.

My statistics correlate... do yours?



I ignore things that don't make any dang sense.  You have nothing that shows a direct relationship between abortion and crime.  It is literally impossible for you or anyone to show that an aborted baby would have become a criminal.  

Where are the statistics that show specific "unwanted" babies who were not aborted actually became criminals?      

bears

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oh yeah and the statistics are my side as well.

Dan-O

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You just don't like the statistical correlation, so you ignore... That's fine, but it's still a correlation.

Just like correlations in sports teams do actually count... 90% of the time if you're a football team and you run less yardage and you throw less yardage, you lose... The same can be said of these statistics.

While you may not like the statistics... You can not say there is no correlation because you want there to be none.

Roe v. Wade and time show there is a direct correlation between the drop in crime in the 90s and the fact that almost exactly 20 years earlier abortion was legalized across the board.

You might not like it... but statistics show that is the only correlating item that holds true.

Policing tactics didn't do it... or else many cities where they had more police per capita would have had less crime, but they did not... many times they had more.

So if you say it wasn't abortion, then it is up to YOU to show me what changed to cause the drop in crime in the early - mid 90s.

My statistics correlate... do yours?



Who gives a shit about your statistics?  Is that even the point?

I'm sure if we pre-emptively executed potential criminals (who've already been born), the statistics would also show a decrease in crime. ::)

tu_holmes

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abortion was never meant to be a means to cure social ills.  it was meant to be a last resort for women who found themselves in very bad situations.  you are seriously misguided.  adolf hitler had ideas similar to yours at one time.  you need to seriously rethink how you defend abortion.  the people who passed roe v wade and had their heart in the right place would never want to associate themselves with a person who thought like you.  

lets take your misguided and ignorant argument a little further.  you know we can deter crime even more in this country if we didnt allow people who make under 15k a year to have babies?  the overwhelming majority of our felons are from very low income households.  do you think we should mandate abortions for lower income families?   do you know how much money we could be saving if we euthanized all of our old and indigent?  we could wipe out the national debt in under 10 years.

So you're saying it should be about old people now?

Sorry to burst your bubble there big guy, but I'm simply showing the statistical truth to the situation... I am not saying abortion is right or wrong in my statement.

But, since you seem to want to know it anyway.

Hell yes, I'm pro-choice, because I've got two kids and if I happen to get unfortunate enough to have a condom break or something, I don't want to have 3rd kid... especially one out of wedlock.

So what?

I have two kids I love to death and do everything for... You think all of a sudden I'm a bad guy because I don't think a mistake should be shoved at someone.

Wah for you... The other reality that no one likes, especially the pro-lifers is that todays youth while perhaps not pro-choice and may be pro-life are certainly fine with abortion being the way it is.

I think the funny part is that the people who talk about personal responsibility are the people who are injecting their beliefs in someone else's life.

Here's a tip... if you're not the one knocked up, or you're not the one who knocked the chick up... Guess what?

It's not really any of your business...

Unless you admit of course you're really just a busy body who wants to make everyone do what they want them to do.

Is that you?

tu_holmes

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Who gives a shit about your statistics?  Is that even the point?

I'm sure if we pre-emptively executed potential criminals (who've already been born), the statistics would also show a decrease in crime. ::)

Yes they would show a decrease.

tu_holmes

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I ignore things that don't make any dang sense.  You have nothing that shows a direct relationship between abortion and crime.  It is literally impossible for you or anyone to show that an aborted baby would have become a criminal.  

Where are the statistics that show specific "unwanted" babies who not aborted actually became criminals?      

You can't show that statistic beach because they weren't alive yet...

Again... My analysis shows real cause and effect, and you can't dispute it with any other causality... so you ignore it.

Fine by me.

Dos Equis

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You can't show that statistic beach because they weren't alive yet...

Again... My analysis shows real cause and effect, and you can't dispute it with any other causality... so you ignore it.

Fine by me.

Yes I am ignoring the contention that "unwanted" babies aborted since Roe v. Wade reduced the crime rate, because there is zero proof.  Tu this really makes no sense. 

tu_holmes

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Yes I am ignoring the contention that "unwanted" babies aborted since Roe v. Wade reduced the crime rate, because there is zero proof.  Tu this really makes no sense. 

Beach... There is direct timeline correlations... You just ignore what you want.

Continue down the path of ignorance Beach.

Dos Equis

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Beach... There is direct timeline correlations... You just ignore what you want.

Continue down the path of ignorance Beach.

No there is zero evidence of cause and effect.  Show it to me.  You have a link?  I'll read it.

bears

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So you're saying it should be about old people now?

Sorry to burst your bubble there big guy, but I'm simply showing the statistical truth to the situation... I am not saying abortion is right or wrong in my statement.

YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT THINK THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT.

But, since you seem to want to know it anyway.

Hell yes, I'm pro-choice, because I've got two kids and if I happen to get unfortunate enough to have a condom break or something, I don't want to have 3rd kid... especially one out of wedlock.

So what?

I have two kids I love to death and do everything for... You think all of a sudden I'm a bad guy because I don't think a mistake should be shoved at someone.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE 2 KIDS DOESNT EXCUSE YOU FROM ANY FURTHER PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  WHAT A JOKE.

Wah for you... The other reality that no one likes, especially the pro-lifers is that todays youth while perhaps not pro-choice and may be pro-life are certainly fine with abortion being the way it is.

THATS BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE COMPLETELY INTOLERANT OF A PRO LIFE PERSONS OPINION.  POT MEET KETTLE.

I think the funny part is that the people who talk about personal responsibility are the people who are injecting their beliefs in someone else's life.

Here's a tip... if you're not the one knocked up, or you're not the one who knocked the chick up... Guess what?

It's not really any of your business...

IF MURDER OF A BABY IS LEGALIZED IN A COUNTRY WHERE I AM A TAX PAYING CITIZEN.  YEAH IT IS MY BUSINESS.

Unless you admit of course you're really just a busy body who wants to make everyone do what they want them to do.

NO I WANT TO TAKE A STAND FOR MEN WHO BELIEVE IN TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND I WANT MY SON TO SEE HIS FATHER TAKING THAT STAND.  YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT TO HAVE OR NOT HAVE AN OPINION ON.
 
Is that you?

Dan-O

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Yes they would show a decrease.

So your argument is that reduced crime statistics justify those 45 million abortions performed since 1973.

So would you advocate pre-emptive executions of potential criminals if it would result in reduced crime statistics?  Really???  That's a scary place to go if you want to follow your course of logic but that's what you're implying.

tu_holmes

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So your argument is that reduced crime statistics justify those 45 million abortions performed since 1973.

So would you advocate pre-emptive executions of potential criminals if it would result in reduced crime statistics?  Really???  That's a scary place to go if you want to follow your course of logic but that's what you're implying.

No... I'm not saying that... I'm just showing statistical correlation.

You can make your own mind up about whether or not it's worth it... I'm just relaying facts.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong... Just tossing the statistical analysis out there for people.

Buffgeek

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Dude, you seriously don't read very well... As I wrote, but you couldn't comprehend... Most of those babies were UNWANTED.

Unwanted children become criminals... No... everyone who was born wasn't a criminal... but the unwanted ones would have had a predisposition to lean towards crime.

No one is talking about YOU or your situation... I'm talking about those who were aborted... Aborted because they were unwanted.

Stop acting like it's about you personally... It's not.



Actually dude its you who doesnt comprehend very well apparently.  The only reason I bring up my situation is because its very typical of the unwanted pregnancys that end up in abortion. A young ass teenager gets knocked up... who wants a kid at 15?? Back in the day it was shot gun wedding. you had sex now you take care of your responsabilites. Once abortions were legalized that was not the case.

The assumption you are making is that all of these babies because they were unwanted would have turned out to be criminal is stupid because there is a nice little thing built into our species that makes you attatched to your children. They might have not like the situation, but they would have provided for their child as best they could. Its not like all of these children woud be abused neglected, etc.... you have no way of knowing.

Buffgeek

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You just don't like the statistical correlation, so you ignore... That's fine, but it's still a correlation.

Just like correlations in sports teams do actually count... 90% of the time if you're a football team and you run less yardage and you throw less yardage, you lose... The same can be said of these statistics.

While you may not like the statistics... You can not say there is no correlation because you want there to be none.

Roe v. Wade and time show there is a direct correlation between the drop in crime in the 90s and the fact that almost exactly 20 years earlier abortion was legalized across the board.

You might not like it... but statistics show that is the only correlating item that holds true.

Policing tactics didn't do it... or else many cities where they had more police per capita would have had less crime, but they did not... many times they had more.

So if you say it wasn't abortion, then it is up to YOU to show me what changed to cause the drop in crime in the early - mid 90s.

My statistics correlate... do yours?



First thing they teach in psychology....

Coorelation does not = Causation.....


There are so many other factors involved with your "Theory" it makes my head spin..

Buffgeek

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So you're saying it should be about old people now?

Sorry to burst your bubble there big guy, but I'm simply showing the statistical truth to the situation... I am not saying abortion is right or wrong in my statement.

But, since you seem to want to know it anyway.

Hell yes, I'm pro-choice, because I've got two kids and if I happen to get unfortunate enough to have a condom break or something, I don't want to have 3rd kid... especially one out of wedlock.

So what?

I have two kids I love to death and do everything for... You think all of a sudden I'm a bad guy because I don't think a mistake should be shoved at someone.

Wah for you... The other reality that no one likes, especially the pro-lifers is that todays youth while perhaps not pro-choice and may be pro-life are certainly fine with abortion being the way it is.

I think the funny part is that the people who talk about personal responsibility are the people who are injecting their beliefs in someone else's life.

Here's a tip... if you're not the one knocked up, or you're not the one who knocked the chick up... Guess what?

It's not really any of your business...

Unless you admit of course you're really just a busy body who wants to make everyone do what they want them to do.

Is that you?

See everything you have said here is irrelevant.

It comes down to this. Either you think that a pregnant woment is carrying a human life or you think that what she is carrying will become human life.

If you think they are carrying a human life, then you feel that life should be protected just like the rest of us under the constitution.

If you think that they are carrying something that could will eventually be human life then you can easily justify ending its existence before it becomes "human"

If you think they are carrying human life and you think that its ok to end that life to avoid an inconvience, then in my opinion you are a special kind of asshole.

24KT

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That whole crime statistic argument is so lame--so let's kill the unwanted kids in case they turn out to be criminals??!?  Sounds just a wee bit Orwellian if you really stop and think about it.  Or maybe a wee bit Minority Report-ish.  Or both, really.


The reasoning was fine by you when Rumsfeld used it
w

tu_holmes

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See everything you have said here is irrelevant.

It comes down to this. Either you think that a pregnant woment is carrying a human life or you think that what she is carrying will become human life.

If you think they are carrying a human life, then you feel that life should be protected just like the rest of us under the constitution.

If you think that they are carrying something that could will eventually be human life then you can easily justify ending its existence before it becomes "human"

If you think they are carrying human life and you think that its ok to end that life to avoid an inconvience, then in my opinion you are a special kind of asshole.

Haha...

Thanks!

bears

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The reasoning was fine by you when Rumsfeld used it

ad hominem argument.  and was it fine by him?