flex wheeler says even on steroids you will never look as good as him natural

[warma]

steroids and training are the only thing making bodybuilders pro size, not genetics.

hope this helps.

fat and jealous

[Royalty]

I read Flex's book. steroids played a HUGE factor in his success people. The book is easy to read. I read it in one day back in '03

[turnerg31]

I read Flex's book. steroids played a HUGE factor in his success people. The book is easy to read. I read it in one day back in '03

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Steroids play a huge role in the success of all bodybuilders on that level.  The point that needs to be made is that not just anyone can take a huge amount of Steroids and become a professional bodybuilder. Not only a professional bodybuilder but a successful Pro Bodybuilder.  It takes a lot more than just Steroids.  Flex's genetics are among the best in the business. With or without steroids he still  possesses these same genetics.  Is it so hard to believe that if he trained naturally (for competition) that he could achieve a physique much better than most of us on this site.  Damn, half of the people posting on here probably don't even train.  Now some of you out there may be be able to say you have a physique better than Flex could possibly achieve naturally but not many.  I've trained 20+ yrs and managed to build a descent physique yet I'm not gonna sit here and say that.  Scroll back up and look at the mans pics.  You don't run into that kind of genetics everyday.  Great genetics means something, with or without Steroids.

Pat

[Viking11]

Great genetics, no doubt of that. He's also a bit of a tool.

[Fatpanda]

Yeah right, if this was true then there would be "pro size" bodybuilders everywhere you looked.  There are countless people who take steroids and train like beasts but aren't pro sized bodybuilders. I would imagine the majority of those taking steroids never reach the size and shape that they think they will when they start.  Don't downplay what it takes to be a Pro. I won't argue with the fact that drugs are involved but saying that drugs and training alone will do the trick is totally ridiculous. IMHO.

Pat

if its all genetics where were the mass monsters pre 1950's ?

no one has ever gotten to the size of the guys from the 50's onward, where was the genetics then 

why do the pro's all disappear into 150lb skeletons when they go off cycles 

guys who take steroids and do not achieve the size of a pro are doing things wrong - not enough protein and calories, poor training mostly.

i admit shape is more related to genetics, however with the proper training even this can be affected.

[turnerg31]

if its all genetics where were the mass monsters pre 1950's ?

no one has ever gotten to the size of the guys from the 50's onward, where was the genetics then 

why do the pro's all disappear into 150lb skeletons when they go off cycles 

guys who take steroids and do not achieve the size of a pro are doing things wrong - not enough protein and calories, poor training mostly.

i admit shape is more related to genetics, however with the proper training even this can be affected.

Theres no argument here that Steroids play a big part. Everyone has agreed on that. Just like with most drugs, Steroids can have different effects on different people. Theres not just one general rule that says if two guys take the exact same type and dosage, even if their training and diet are the same, they will have the exact same results.  That's one of the complications involved when using Steroids.  The point we are making here is that Flex's genetics would allow him an advantage competing naturally or with Steroids, over most of us posting on this board, weather we use or not. That's what the original thread was about.  How many of you think you have the physique (natural or on roids) to go head to head with Flex (natural) if he started seriously training to compete?  If you do, please post a pic so I can see for myself. I'm not saying that there aren't people out there that may be able to hang but I seriously doubt there are very many here reading this post.  I might be wrong but lets just take a look and judge for ourselves.

PT

[Fatpanda]

Theres no argument here that Steroids play a big part. Everyone has agreed on that. Just like with most drugs, Steroids can have different effects on different people. Theres not just one general rule that says if two guys take the exact same type and dosage, even if their training and diet are the same, they will have the exact same results.  That's one of the complications involved when using Steroids.  The point we are making here is that Flex's genetics would allow him an advantage competing naturally or with Steroids, over most of us posting on this board, weather we use or not. That's what the original thread was about.  How many of you think you have the physique (natural or on roids) to go head to head with Flex (natural) if he started seriously training to compete?  If you do, please post a pic so I can see for myself. I'm not saying that there aren't people out there that may be able to hang but I seriously doubt there are very many here reading this post.  I might be wrong but lets just take a look and judge for ourselves.

PT

firstly - flex isn't natural, he still takes insulin gh and i would bet clen too.

secondly  - anybody who eats right, takes real gear, and works out right would beat a natural flex in a bodybuilding contest, just like they would beat a natural levrone, and a natural prince ans a natural 'insert name here'.

thirdly - there has never been a single study - from thousands done on steroids that showed a non responder to gear. some may get different sides, but muscle gain is always statistically the same.

[Gino30]

.

[Bear]

It's possible that I am taking the thread out of context. I am not familiar with the context of which Flex made this statement or his intent. If he meant that on steroids, the person that he was talking to wouldn't look as good as he does if Flex trained to compete naturally or did he mean the person won't look as good as Flex does now.   I'm not sure how Flex is training right now or if he is training at all. I've seen several pics of him and he looks pretty much like a regular guy. I may be reading into it a little. I was thinking he meant that if he (Flex) were to train at a level to become a Natural   I think everyone that has posted here has agreed that Flex Wheeler possesses genetics that most of us can only dream about.  That being said, doesn't it make sense that if he trained to be the best natural bodybuilder in the world that those same genetics he used to compete while juicing may take him to a level better than most of the guys you know that are juicing.  I don't think he's focused on that right now but I'm just throwing that out there.  I think there is a really big misconception in the boybuilding world that everyone who is taking steroids becomes a massive, and ripped Hulk of a man ready to take the stage and compete.  That's just not the case. You may have guys in your gym that are juicin and you don't even know it based on their results.  Steroids are not a miracle drug.  No doubt they work. It still takes a lot more than Steroids alone to build a world class physique.

Agreed. I knew a guy who looked average but I happened to know he trained because we went to the same gym. Dude basically had zilchio muscularity bar a bit of shoulders. Turns out he's been juicing for a while, he just had literally no idea how to train properly. Like I always say about ginetics as well, if the person taking the most juice looked the best then, Palumbo would have made pro, Kovacs wouldn't look pathetic with small legs etc, and Kamali wouldn't be fighting a losing battle to have arms above 16". Lots of people don't respond particularly well, and even if they got massive, you still need the shape. Silvio Samuel beats Dennis James, but not because Dennis James does less drugs.

[turnerg31]

firstly - flex isn't natural, he still takes insulin gh and i would bet clen too.

secondly  - anybody who eats right, takes real gear, and works out right would beat a natural flex in a bodybuilding contest, just like they would beat a natural levrone, and a natural prince ans a natural 'insert name here'.

thirdly - there has never been a single study - from thousands done on steroids that showed a non responder to gear. some may get different sides, but muscle gain is always statistically the same.

I don't know where you've been but I personally know plenty of clowns on gear that look like shit. I wouldn't categorize them as non responders. More like they didn't get the response they anticipated.  I'm pretty sure we all know a few of these. Like you said, it takes a lot more than just the use of Steroids alone. And I beg to differ on the muscle gains being generally the same. That's ridiculous. It's pretty common knowledge that results are going to vary from individual to individual. I, ( now this is just my opinion ) personally believe that if Flex Wheeler dedicated himself to Natural Bodybuilding like he did when he was competing that he could build a very impressive physique. He's got all the tools.  That's just my opinion.

Pat

[Fatpanda]

Silvio Samuel beats Dennis James, but not because Dennis James does less drugs.

no he doesn't. dennis james blows him away in every dept.

I don't know where you've been but I personally know plenty of clowns on gear that look like shit. I wouldn't categorize them as non responders. More like they didn't get the response they anticipated.  I'm pretty sure we all know a few of these. Like you said, it takes a lot more than just the use of Steroids alone. And I beg to differ on the muscle gains being generally the same. That's ridiculous. It's pretty common knowledge that results are going to vary from individual to individual. I, ( now this is just my opinion ) personally believe that if Flex Wheeler dedicated himself to Natural Bodybuilding like he did when he was competing that he could build a very impressive physique. He's got all the tools.  That's just my opinion.

Pat

i know guys that take gear and look like shit too, and i wouldn't class them as non responders either - the gear was fake/underdosed or they had shity diets and or training with no progressive resistance.

you might not agree but on human grade gear, in every study i have read on gear, everyone put on statistically the same amount of mass.

as i said shape may be genetic to a point, same with muscle insertions, but training can make a difference to muscle shape over time.

look at ronnie coleman, probably the greatest ever seen in the genetics dept ( apart from dillet maybe), yet flex blew him away for years - despite ronnie being older. back then i bet there wasn't a soul on planet earth that would have said ronnie had better genetics that flex, and when ronnie was on the olympia stage the first time he couldn't touch wheeler.

then he teams up with chad, increases his protein and gear and BOOM a genetic marvel is born 

[turnerg31]

no he doesn't. dennis james blows him away in every dept.

i know guys that take gear and look like shit too, and i wouldn't class them as non responders either - the gear was fake/underdosed or they had shity diets and or training with no progressive resistance.

you might not agree but on human grade gear, in every study i have read on gear, everyone put on statistically the same amount of mass.

as i said shape may be genetic to a point, same with muscle insertions, but training can make a difference to muscle shape over time.

look at Ronnie Coleman, probably the greatest ever seen in the genetics dept ( apart from dillet maybe), yet flex blew him away for years - despite ronnie being older. back then i bet there wasn't a soul on planet earth that would have said ronnie had better genetics that flex, and when ronnie was on the olympia stage the first time he couldn't touch wheeler.

then he teams up with chad, increases his protein and gear and BOOM a genetic marvel is born 

Well, you did say one thing right, "A Genetic Marvel was Born".  Ronnie was born with great genes and it was just a matter of time before he did exactly what you said. He got with the right people and starting making the right moves. (be that increased steroid use, protein, whatever) How do you think Ronnie would fair if he never competed in the IFBB and focused his attentions toward being a Natural Pro. Same situation as Flex. Incredible genes to begin with. Obviously possesses the drive, dedication and determination to get it done.  Don't you think he would most likely be a very successful Natural Pro.  I know this is hypothetical but work with me a little bit.  I hope you would agree that guys like Ronnie and Flex don't come around that often and they would probably excel should they pursue Natural Bodybuilding or it's "Evil Twin Brother".  (just kidding) I have nothing against guys who decide to use.  Anyway, can I get an agreement on at least that?

By the way, (hypothetically) how many guys on this site do you know that could beat Ronnie or Flex if they dedicated themselves to the pursuit of Natural Bodybuilding in the same manner as they did with their Pro careers in the IFBB?

Pat

[Fatpanda]

Well, you did say one thing right, "A Genetic Marvel was Born".  Ronnie was born with great genes and it was just a matter of time before he did exactly what you said. He got with the right people and starting making the right moves. (be that increased steroid use, protein, whatever) How do you think Ronnie would fair if he never competed in the IFBB and focused his attentions toward being a Natural Pro. Same situation as Flex. Incredible genes to begin with. Obviously possesses the drive, dedication and determination to get it done.  Don't you think he would most likely be a very successful Natural Pro.  I know this is hypothetical but work with me a little bit.  I hope you would agree that guys like Ronnie and Flex don't come around that often and they would probably excel should they pursue Natural Bodybuilding or it's "Evil Twin Brother".  (just kidding) I have nothing against guys who decide to use.  Anyway, can I get an agreement on at least that?

By the way, (hypothetically) how many guys on this site do you know that could beat Ronnie or Flex if they dedicated themselves to the pursuit of Natural Bodybuilding in the same manner as they did with their Pro careers in the IFBB?

Pat

or perhaps the gene thing is just an excuse made up by people who don't diet or workout right as an excuse. Perhaps it was eating right, and more drugs that got ronnie where he was.

the thing with ronnie, he did workout correctly before he got with chad - by natural standards that was 1/3 of the pie - so he did look good already, when he got with brian dobson he took gear, thats 2/3 of the pie, he grew again, and won a few contests. then he got with chad, sorted his nurtition and optimised his drug use, thats 3/3 of the pie and a top bodybuilder is born.

no one would have believed ronnie was a genetic marvel in 1995, just as no pro is a genetic marvel untill they take the gear and increase their food.

[turnerg31]

no one would have believed ronnie was a genetic marvel in 1995, just as no pro is a genetic marvel untill they take the gear and increase their food.

Ok, this is the last one I got on this thread.  First, when referring to genetics we are talking about genes. When talking about genes you're talking about something you are born with and not something that can be altered by training, drugs, grape kool aide or anything else.  It's genetic, inherent, you're born with it. Anyway, I beg to differ when you say nobody saw the genetic potential of Ronnie in the early days.  I've read stories of individuals who met Ronnie when he first started serious training and they swear up and down they could see the genetic potential in him from Jump Street.  I don't know because obviously I wasn't there.  Here are some pics from the Ronnie's early days.  I'm not exactly sure when they were taken but it's obvious it was a pretty long time ago.  Tell me if you can't see a future Mr. O. in this young Ronnie Coleman.  Come on now, tell the truth!!!!!!!

Ok, that's it for me. I'm out. Time for me to go get right and get my genetic potential on. Gotta hit some shoulders tonight.  Thanks for the conversation. 

Ronnie Colemans Record Pre 1995

1995 IFBB Grand Prix France -- 4th
1995 IFBB Grand Prix Russia -- 6th
1995 IFBB Grand Prix Ukraine -- 3rd
1995 IFBB Night of Champions -- 3rd
1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 11th
1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 15th
1993 IFBB Chicago Pro Invitational -- 6th
1993 IFBB Grand Prix France -- 4th
1993 IFBB Grand Prix Germany -- 6th
1993 IFBB Niagara Falls Pro Invitational -- 6th
1991 NPC Nationals -- 4th Heavyweight
1991 IFBB World Amateur Championships -- 1st Heavyweight
1990 NPC Nationals -- 3rd Heavyweight
1990 Mr. Texas -- 1st Heavyweight & Overall

[Mr.1derful]

Flex would be a dismal failure as a natural competitor.  A large aspect of his genetic advantage is his response to gear.  Without it, as we have seen, he would simply be skinny.  And we would never be able to see what his physique would truly be capable of naturally, as he lacks any measure of work ethic.

I find it amusing that Flex has such an air of arrogance about him.   Even if one were to acknowledge him as a genetic superior, is that a logical basis for such arrogance?  An admittance that only a token effort was needed for his accomplishments does little to form a credible legacy for him.  He lacks the intellect to realize that his comments and conduct only serve to detract from what he achieved in his career.  

[Fatpanda]

Ok, this is the last one I got on this thread.  First, when referring to genetics we are talking about genes. When talking about genes you're talking about something you are born with and not something that can be altered by training, drugs, grape kool aide or anything else.  It's genetic, inherent, you're born with it. Anyway, I beg to differ when you say nobody saw the genetic potential of Ronnie in the early days.  I've read stories of individuals who met Ronnie when he first started serious training and they swear up and down they could see the genetic potential in him from Jump Street.  I don't know because obviously I wasn't there.  Here are some pics from the Ronnie's early days.  I'm not exactly sure when they were taken but it's obvious it was a pretty long time ago.  Tell me if you can't see a future Mr. O. in this young Ronnie Coleman.  Come on now, tell the truth!!!!!!!

Ok, that's it for me. I'm out. Time for me to go get right and get my genetic potential on. Gotta hit some shoulders tonight.  Thanks for the conversation. 

Ronnie Colemans Record Pre 1995

1995 IFBB Grand Prix France -- 4th
1995 IFBB Grand Prix Russia -- 6th
1995 IFBB Grand Prix Ukraine -- 3rd
1995 IFBB Night of Champions -- 3rd
1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 11th
1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 15th
1993 IFBB Chicago Pro Invitational -- 6th
1993 IFBB Grand Prix France -- 4th
1993 IFBB Grand Prix Germany -- 6th
1993 IFBB Niagara Falls Pro Invitational -- 6th
1991 NPC Nationals -- 4th Heavyweight
1991 IFBB World Amateur Championships -- 1st Heavyweight
1990 NPC Nationals -- 3rd Heavyweight
1990 Mr. Texas -- 1st Heavyweight & Overall

clearly he didn't look like a genetic marvel at the mr o 94, or 95 where he finished 15th and 11th  unless you are claiming everyone of those contestants that finished above him were genetically superior?

isn't it more likely that the extra food and more drugs made him the 300lb monster we all know now.

those pics were after that period i would have thought as he has a met-rx hat on. he was much smaller untill around 1997.

[PJim]

Ok, this is the last one I got on this thread.  First, when referring to genetics we are talking about genes. When talking about genes you're talking about something you are born with and not something that can be altered by training, drugs, grape kool aide or anything else.  It's genetic, inherent, you're born with it. Anyway, I beg to differ when you say nobody saw the genetic potential of Ronnie in the early days.  I've read stories of individuals who met Ronnie when he first started serious training and they swear up and down they could see the genetic potential in him from Jump Street.  I don't know because obviously I wasn't there.  Here are some pics from the Ronnie's early days.  I'm not exactly sure when they were taken but it's obvious it was a pretty long time ago.  Tell me if you can't see a future Mr. O. in this young Ronnie Coleman.  Come on now, tell the truth!!!!!!!

Ok, that's it for me. I'm out. Time for me to go get right and get my genetic potential on. Gotta hit some shoulders tonight.  Thanks for the conversation. 

Ronnie Colemans Record Pre 1995

1995 IFBB Grand Prix France -- 4th
1995 IFBB Grand Prix Russia -- 6th
1995 IFBB Grand Prix Ukraine -- 3rd
1995 IFBB Night of Champions -- 3rd
1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 11th
1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 15th
1993 IFBB Chicago Pro Invitational -- 6th
1993 IFBB Grand Prix France -- 4th
1993 IFBB Grand Prix Germany -- 6th
1993 IFBB Niagara Falls Pro Invitational -- 6th
1991 NPC Nationals -- 4th Heavyweight
1991 IFBB World Amateur Championships -- 1st Heavyweight
1990 NPC Nationals -- 3rd Heavyweight
1990 Mr. Texas -- 1st Heavyweight & Overall

Damn, Ron is in better condition there than any Olympia win, check the striated quads in the last photo