Author Topic: Does the Bible condone slavery?  (Read 32849 times)

MCWAY

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #200 on: December 12, 2008, 06:56:30 AM »
I don't like getting into it with people who make it personal, and go emotional.  Not because I'm disingenuous :)

I'm no scholar but are you really going to try to claim that that whole battle was over a concubine? You know I'm sure, that there was tons of animosity going around, with anger between the tribes stewing in the pot for some time before the whole debacle. The fateful night in Gibeah started out with Levite getting no hospitality anywhere, which was a horrible breech of manners to begin with, then was threatened with sodomy, and finally they simply threw the piece of property out to the frothing at the mouth crowd like a piece of meat. That would be the concubine. Her death was just an excuse.



I never said that this feud was completely about what happened to this woman. But, this incident was the proverbial back-breaking straw (
The Benjamite rapists should have been handed over to be executed; they were not. And, that sparked the conflict.

But, that example was used to make the point. You claimed that a servant girl could be raped, and the only consequence would be having to cough up a ram. That is NOT the case.  Raping bethrothed/married women warranted the death penalty.


Deedee

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #201 on: December 12, 2008, 07:02:04 AM »

What Loco is saying is that this scenario was NOT reflected in the OT.

How so? How does it differ?

I'll respond to the Hagar thing here.  She may have enjoyed elevated pregnancy status, but was she "asked" if she wanted to "lie" with Abe in the first place? Offered an opt out "nah, I'll take a pass on the old guy"? No, as it says, she was "given." Very Handmaid's Tale. No doubt the plight of many slave girls. Hagar the Egyptian is a horrid story of slave mistreatment, (Yahweh never punished Sarah) and plenty of others were likely used and abused in the same way.

That the Levite slept like a babe while his concubine was being gang raped to death outside speaks less of the "rules" set out in the OT, but volumes of what was actually tolerated.

Indentured servitude didn't end with biblical days.  Lots of Irish and others came to the Americas that exact way a few centuries ago.  It was a harsh, terrible life, and as documentation shows, women were often sexually exploited, abused, raped, etc. A lowly slave/servant didn't have much recourse against a powerful and wealthy owner. Where would she (or he) go anyway? Today we have human trafficking. More of same.

Yet you think somehow, magically, primitive desert dwellers living thousands of years ago were  more evolved.  That's very Disney-esque.

I'm sure in 6030 people will look back at us and say, "wow, they were savages, but look how moral. They didn't rape or kill, but on the off chance they did, offenders were all punished. We can ascertain this from their books of written law."



OzmO

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #202 on: December 12, 2008, 07:09:39 AM »
That is the case, which is what Loco and I have been mentioning the whole time. In fact, they didn't even have to be bought in some cases. They could run from a cruel master and find sanctuary in Israel. And the Israelites were ordered NOT to return them to their former masters.

Another aspect, which you didn't address, is that these foreigners COULD VOLUNTARILY SELL THEMSELVES into service. That's part of the "buy the slaves" thing you just mentioned.

That's the key, here. The foreigners had say in the manner.

And, as Loco and I have both indicated, the women could marry and be elevated to being full-blown wives, with all the priveleges that Hebrew wives had.

None of that changes that fact that they were slaves and slavery was instructed by God if you, as you do, take the bible as the WOG.


Quote
As I stated earlier, look at the example of WWII. We got attacked, unprovoked, by the Japanese. They didn't relent, didn't repent, or try to make amends.

We dropped the A-Bomb and did so, KNOWING that women and children would be destroyed. Was that "immoral"?

No doubt immoral.  If we had the full power of the almighty I'm sure we could have found another way.

You see, we didn't have the power of GOD in 1945.  We were men, finding way to end a war, not God.

Quote
Then what happens to the Amalekites, Ozmo? If you assimilate them (as you've recommended in the past), you've just condoned the "slavery"; if you don't, you either destroy them or leave them to die.

Assimilating them doesn't condone slavery.  What of the refugees we took in WW2?  Did they become slaves?  What of the war criminals we incarcerated in WW2?  did they become slaves?  did they become property?  Did we will them to our children?

The Luke

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #203 on: December 12, 2008, 07:11:39 AM »
Very Handmaid's Tale.

...probably the most frightening movie ever made. Loco and McWay would fit right in.



The Luke

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #204 on: December 12, 2008, 07:13:27 AM »
I often feel the same way.

We have a group of people, attacking the Israelites without provocation, for over three centuries, targeting their feeble, destroying their crops, nearly driving them to starvation. And they'd been doing similar things to other folks as well.

But, nobody's supposed to do anything about that. No one is supposed to stop the Amalekites, least of all, the God who promised to protect and provide for them.

I guess, by certain folks standards, the USA shouldn't have knocked Hitler and Nazi Germany out the box. Destroying that empire must have been immoral, because our bombs and missiles killed Nazi women and their children. We shouldn't have put the A-Bomb on Japan, for their hitting us at Pearl Harbor or their continued attacks on us.

As for the priest issue, we've discussed that before as well. For their three-centuries-plus of assaults on Israel (and other nations), the edict was that Amalek was to be completely wiped out, everyone and everything. So, if Samuel were not relaying the Lord's instruction, why is he ANGRY that Saul spared the Amalekite king (and a few others), along with the choice livestock and booty of war? Why does Saul end up LOSING THE THRONE of Israel, because of his actions?


There's a difference here.  We didn't commit genocide.  And based on what you just said, God didn't make good on his promises at first.

Deedee

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #205 on: December 12, 2008, 07:15:29 AM »
The word "punished" is from the Hebrew word, naqam, which means to avenge or take revenge, or vengeance to be taken for blood.

With no other form of punishment listed, there appears to be but one punishment for a man who kills his servant.......DEATH!!!

That's what was being discussed, earlier: What happens to the MASTER who kills his servant, a MASTER whose "slave" dies at his hand.



i just don't see where that is so evident, as again, the death penalty is clearly stated as punishment right before and after this admonishment. Vengeance doesn't necessarily mean death. Maiming a slave bought freedom, whereas a free man would have enjoyed an eye for an eye justice.  Why then would a slave enjoy equal justice for murder? That, plus the fact that the punishment for an ox goring was decidedly different depending on whether the victim was slave or free, leads me to interpret it otherwise.

MCWAY

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #206 on: December 12, 2008, 07:18:13 AM »
Dedee and Ozmo,


Your hammering away against a brick wall of stoopid here... check out McWay's explanation for Yahweh's edict that Hebrew soldiers were to kill all the elderly and children during their genocidal pogroms:

...can you imagine that?

Blood soaked Hebrew savages charging through the streets of a burning city staving in the heads of screaming toddlers dropped by their butchered parents, shouting: "Karma!" ...cave in another newborns skull: "Karma!" ...hacking into a crib with a blunt edged bronze machete: "Karma!"

Samuel pretty much summed it up, here.

Then Samuel said, "Bring me Agag, the king of the Amalekites." And Agag came to him cheerfully. And Agag said, "Surely the bitterness of death is past." But Samuel said, "As your sword has made women childless, so shall your mother be childless among women." And Samuel hewed Agag to pieces before the LORD at Gilgal.  

As the saying goes, again, "You reap what you sow" or, if you prefer, "Karma", "what goes around comes around", etc.

Imagine some deluded sword brandishing fundie explaining in Hebrew to a proto-arabic speaking Canaanite child: "Sorry, kid, my storm-god-in-a-box wants you dead".



The Luke

PS-some excellent posts though... I like Dedee's style.

Or, imagine some screwball skeptic, having to tell the Israelite children, "Sorry, I know these Amalekite people have been killing your friends, their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, etc., and scorching the crops so you can't eat. But, God can't do anything to stop them, or some atheists/agnostics will accuse Him of being a big, bad meanie some 3000+ years from now."


Deedee

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #207 on: December 12, 2008, 07:22:20 AM »
I see your point, however it still amazes me the lengths people will go to justify their believes even the face of simple straight forward verses.  We have Hebrew soldiers being told to kill infants because some priest says "god" told him to do it.  And then thousands of years later with all our advancements in society we still have people who will try to justify it.  And, to the best of my experiences on this forum, these are good honorable people who will at times fiddle with intellectual dishonesty to maintain their beliefs.

PS- I agree, i love DeeDee's style.  Always have.

I don't understand what the big deal about slavery is.  It isn't as though some form of it hasn't been a part of our world since the beginning of time, and it's not like Yahweh invented it. If I were a believer I would just assert that God knew it would always be with us, so wrote down a few rules as to how best to deal with the unfortunates.

I always liked your posts too Ozmo.  We share many of the same views.  We're moderates.  :)

The Luke

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #208 on: December 12, 2008, 07:35:49 AM »
Or, imagine some screwball skeptic, having to tell the Israelite children, "Sorry, I know these Amalekite people have been killing your friends, their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, etc., and scorching the crops so you can't eat. But, God can't do anything to stop them, or some atheists/agnostics will accuse Him of being a big, bad meanie some 3000+ years from now."


...aren't the children innocent of their parents crimes?

Surely a newborn baby can't be macheted to death because his parents were bandits?

Maybe their god told them to kill Israelite children?


The Luke   

Deedee

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #209 on: December 12, 2008, 07:36:03 AM »
I never said that this feud was completely about what happened to this woman. But, this incident was the proverbial back-breaking straw (
The Benjamite rapists should have been handed over to be executed; they were not. And, that sparked the conflict.

But, that example was used to make the point. You claimed that a servant girl could be raped, and the only consequence would be having to cough up a ram. That is NOT the case.  Raping bethrothed/married women warranted the death penalty.



But not slave girls. If one was pressured to have sex, the coughing up of a ram sacrifice pretty much obliterated the offense. According to the passage I quoted for you.

Deedee

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #210 on: December 12, 2008, 07:40:54 AM »
...probably the most frightening movie ever made. Loco and McWay would fit right in.



The Luke

lol! The book was frightening too, but that Hagar-like scene in the movie where Robert Duvall, Natasha Richardson and Faye Dunaway consummate the relationship is truly grotesque.

OzmO

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #211 on: December 12, 2008, 08:01:22 AM »
I don't understand what the big deal about slavery is.  It isn't as though some form of it hasn't been a part of our world since the beginning of time, and it's not like Yahweh invented it. If I were a believer I would just assert that God knew it would always be with us, so wrote down a few rules as to how best to deal with the unfortunates.

I always liked your posts too Ozmo.  We share many of the same views.  We're moderates.  :)

Thanks DeeDee  :)

It's the immorality of slavery not being denounced by God but instead being instructed by God that's not Godly.  That's the issue I'm debating.

OzmO

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #212 on: December 12, 2008, 08:11:59 AM »


Or, imagine some screwball skeptic, having to tell the Israelite children, "Sorry, I know these Amalekite people have been killing your friends, their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, etc., and scorching the crops so you can't eat. But, God can't do anything to stop them, or some atheists/agnostics will accuse Him of being a big, bad meanie some 3000+ years from now."



Although i don't agree with you post at all, it made me laugh pretty good  lol   ;D

MCWAY

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #213 on: December 12, 2008, 08:53:53 AM »
How so? How does it differ?

I'll respond to the Hagar thing here.  She may have enjoyed elevated pregnancy status, but was she "asked" if she wanted to "lie" with Abe in the first place? Offered an opt out "nah, I'll take a pass on the old guy"? No, as it says, she was "given." Very Handmaid's Tale. No doubt the plight of many slave girls. Hagar the Egyptian is a horrid story of slave mistreatment, (Yahweh never punished Sarah) and plenty of others were likely used and abused in the same way.

Hagar left, when Sarah started mistreating her. And, only under advisement by the angel of the Lord (and the promise of Ishmael's being prosperous) did she return. So, I'd say that, if she weren't cool with marrying Abe and found that to be a form of mistreatment, she could have departed.

And remember that the beef between the two started, because Hagar apparently started flaunting her pregnancy in Sarah's face. If I'm not mistaken, few things scarred the soul of an Anicent Near East woman more than not being able to have children. Getting poked in the eye with that by your handmaid-turned-rival wife couldn't have set well with her (notwithstanding the fact that it was Sarah's idea in the first place).


That the Levite slept like a babe while his concubine was being gang raped to death outside speaks less of the "rules" set out in the OT, but volumes of what was actually tolerated.

Point taken. But, the text states that the houseguest handed over the Levite's concubine (he actually offered both her and his own daughter).

Either the Levite wasn't there when it happen. Or, he did hand her over to those Benjamites, failing to add that part to his report to the Israelite elders.

That doesn't dismiss the fact that the rapists were to be punished by death for their deeds.


Indentured servitude didn't end with biblical days.  Lots of Irish and others came to the Americas that exact way a few centuries ago.  It was a harsh, terrible life, and as documentation shows, women were often sexually exploited, abused, raped, etc. A lowly slave/servant didn't have much recourse against a powerful and wealthy owner. Where would she (or he) go anyway? Today we have human trafficking. More of same.

Yet you think somehow, magically, primitive desert dwellers living thousands of years ago were  more evolved.  That's very Disney-esque.


I'm sure in 6030 people will look back at us and say, "wow, they were savages, but look how moral. They didn't rape or kill, but on the off chance they did, offenders were all punished. We can ascertain this from their books of written law."


No one said that these offenses didn't occur. But, when they did, there were stiff consequences for that happening. Are we more "evolved" than those folks were? By and large, we don't execute rapists today. In fact, the U.S. Supreme Court just overturned a LA state law that gave the death penalty to child rapists, claming it was "cruel and unusual punishment" to execute these dudes, simply because the girl survived the abuse.

You're right about the indentured servant thing. But, what you left out what that, when the abuses became too frequent and out of control, the Irish settlers had the option of leaving. So, those in the slave trade ended up getting slaves that were very conspicuous (i.e. black people), deemed them "chattel", and were designed to be slaves for life.

They were kidnapped from their homeland (contrary to Biblical law); they were severely beaten and killed (with no punishment given to those responsible); the women were indeed RAPED (repeatedly and often, with no penalty at all to their assailants). Any children produced from this received NO inheritance, not even freedom.

If you did any of those things to an OT servant (Hebrew or non-Hebrew), you got severely punished for such.




MCWAY

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #214 on: December 12, 2008, 09:13:17 AM »

...aren't the children innocent of their parents crimes?

Surely a newborn baby can't be macheted to death because his parents were bandits?

Children are innocent of being delinquent on the mortgage of their parent's homes, too. But, if the parents lose their jobs (particularly, for doing something that got them fired), the kids are going to get tossed on the streets, as well.

Children can be deformed, because their mothers smoke crack or drink alcohol. They can have AIDS, because their mothers were permiscuous. They can starve, because their mothers are strung out on dope or running the streets doing wrong.

Sometimes in life, kids pay for their parents' wrongdoing. Or, as the saying goes, "the sins of the fathers get passed onto the sons".




Maybe their god told them to kill Israelite children?


The Luke  

And the provocation for that would be........


MCWAY

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #215 on: December 12, 2008, 09:23:31 AM »
But not slave girls. If one was pressured to have sex, the coughing up of a ram sacrifice pretty much obliterated the offense. According to the passage I quoted for you.

Pressured by whom? The verse you quote talks about lying carnally with a woman. That implies consent. Otherwise it's rape. Add to that the provision about not offering up daughters to be whores.

In terms of purity, offering up a slave girl for prostitution was much the same as doing do to your own daughter.

Even a master had to marry a servant girl, before having sex with her, which means he had to provide for her as a wife. And, if he dismissed her, her firstborn child became the heir and got the master-turned-husband's estate, once he died.

The Luke

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #216 on: December 12, 2008, 09:27:12 AM »
Children are innocent of being delinquent on the mortgage of their parent's homes, too. But, if the parents lose their jobs (particularly, for doing something that got them fired), the kids are going to get tossed on the streets, as well.

Children can be deformed, because their mothers smoke crack or drink alcohol. They can have AIDS, because their mothers were permiscuous. They can starve, because their mothers are strung out on dope or running the streets doing wrong.

...you are so right. That is exactly the same thing as genocide and butchering newborn babies to death in their cribs.

And the provocation for that would be........

...Perhaps the Canaanite god ordered his followers to kill Hebrew children the same way Yahweh ordered the slaughter of Canaanite children?

But then again, you don't believe in the existence of the Canaanite god... that would just be silly right? Some imaginary storm god contained in a box who insists on his followers killing other people's children.

Totally ridiculous right.


The Luke

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #217 on: December 12, 2008, 09:32:18 AM »
...you are so right. That is exactly the same thing as genocide and butchering newborn babies to death in their cribs.

...Perhaps the Canaanite god ordered his followers to kill Hebrew children the same way Yahweh ordered the slaughter of Canaanite children?

But then again, you don't believe in the existence of the Canaanite god... that would just be silly right? Some imaginary storm god contained in a box who insists on his followers killing other people's children.

Totally ridiculous right.


The Luke

We also need to keep in mind that this account is written by the Hebrews.  So it's perfectly reasonable to think they would embellish and exaggerate the "evilness" of the Amalikites.

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #218 on: December 12, 2008, 10:01:58 AM »
...you are so right. That is exactly the same thing as genocide and butchering newborn babies to death in their cribs.

No, this is to make the point that, when people do wrong, others (including their children) may suffer the consequences for it. What happened to the Amalekites was that principle, taken to the extreme.


...Perhaps the Canaanite god ordered his followers to kill Hebrew children the same way Yahweh ordered the slaughter of Canaanite children?

1) Where are the Amalekites ordered to do that and why (notwithstanding the issue that the Amalekites jumped the Israelites, as they were leaving Egypt).

2) On a unrelated (but back to the topic at hand) note, what is this punishment for a master killing a servant, that is NOT the death penalty?


But then again, you don't believe in the existence of the Canaanite god... that would just be silly right? Some imaginary storm god contained in a box who insists on his followers killing other people's children.

Totally ridiculous right.


The Luke

Who said I didn't? The enemies of Israel worshipped other gods (Baal, Dagon, etc.). Of course, they didn't fare too well, when matching up with you-know-who, as Elijah demonstrated. But that's another issue.

We also need to keep in mind that this account is written by the Hebrews.  So it's perfectly reasonable to think they would embellish and exaggerate the "evilness" of the Amalikites.

But, as Loco asked, on the other thread, why would they embellish about being instructed to destroy them completely, WITHOUT taking their gold, silver, and choice lifestock (something the Israelites were actually HAPPY to have)? And, why did their king get dismissed and ultimately replaced for doing that?


The Luke

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #219 on: December 12, 2008, 10:09:02 AM »
Who said I didn't? The enemies of Israel worshipped other gods (Baal, Dagon, etc.). Of course, they didn't fare too well, when matching up with you-know-who, as Elijah demonstrated. But that's another issue.

...are you saying you believe Baal, Dagon and the other heathen gods were real gods like Yahweh, but were trounced by Yahweh?

You believe the Middle East was home to several actual real life gods with attendant followers 3000 years ago?


The Luke

OzmO

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #220 on: December 12, 2008, 10:15:49 AM »


But, as Loco asked, on the other thread, why would they embellish about being instructed to destroy them completely, WITHOUT taking their gold, silver, and choice lifestock (something the Israelites were actually HAPPY to have)? And, why did their king get dismissed and ultimately replaced for doing that?



Who knows that they didn't?  Remember, this is historical record written by the victors with out the INTERNET, pictures, video, media or CNN.  Who knows that that wasn't just used as a scapegoat for disposing the king?

The claim that a race of people is evil down to the infant or destined to be evil is ludicrous.   

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #221 on: December 12, 2008, 10:32:02 AM »
Who knows that they didn't?  Remember, this is historical record written by the victors with out the INTERNET, pictures, video, media or CNN.  Who knows that that wasn't just used as a scapegoat for disposing the king?

The claim that a race of people is evil down to the infant or destined to be evil is ludicrous.   

The Israelites weren't the victors against Babylon, Greece, or Rome. And, they spent a good hunk of time bowing to the Phillistines. Yet, they wrote the historical record in their dealings with these people. And, unless you have some information to the contrary, I will take the Biblical account as valid.

A scapegoat?

Israel just kicked the crap out of an enemy that had been dogging them for over 300 years. Their king is groveling at their feet. The people are doing the backstroke in Amalekite gold and silver, with some new cows and sheep to boot.

Yet, they're MAD at Saul and want him gone?    ???

On the contrary, they were THRILLED, elated by their victory. But, the Lord was anything but thrilled, because Saul didn't follow directions and he lied about the situation to Samuel (who, even in his anger about the situation, did NOT want Saul displaced from being king).

The claim isn't that they were evil down to the infant. The point is that the infants suffered, because of the behavior of their evil parents. That happens unfortunately in many areas of life, then and now.






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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #222 on: December 12, 2008, 10:39:08 AM »
Maybe Saul didn't kill enough of the children?


The Luke

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #223 on: December 12, 2008, 11:50:09 AM »
The Israelites weren't the victors against Babylon, Greece, or Rome. And, they spent a good hunk of time bowing to the Phillistines. Yet, they wrote the historical record in their dealings with these people. And, unless you have some information to the contrary, I will take the Biblical account as valid.

A scapegoat?

Israel just kicked the crap out of an enemy that had been dogging them for over 300 years. Their king is groveling at their feet. The people are doing the backstroke in Amalekite gold and silver, with some new cows and sheep to boot.

Yet, they're MAD at Saul and want him gone?    ???

On the contrary, they were THRILLED, elated by their victory. But, the Lord was anything but thrilled, because Saul didn't follow directions and he lied about the situation to Samuel (who, even in his anger about the situation, did NOT want Saul displaced from being king).

The claim isn't that they were evil down to the infant. The point is that the infants suffered, because of the behavior of their evil parents. That happens unfortunately in many areas of life, then and now.


That's the problem with historical record.  Much of it derives from one source and I guess you have decided to choose to believe the one source you have.  It's understandable although not objective.  But what is totally objective these days?  Even with all our technology and multiple sources there is still an absence of objectivity to one degree or another.

In the end, however, you have an act of genocide on god's orders. 

how often did this happen?

# "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
# "...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV

MCWAY

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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?
« Reply #224 on: December 12, 2008, 12:25:38 PM »
That's the problem with historical record.  Much of it derives from one source and I guess you have decided to choose to believe the one source you have.  It's understandable although not objective.  But what is totally objective these days?  Even with all our technology and multiple sources there is still an absence of objectivity to one degree or another.

In the end, however, you have an act of genocide on god's orders. 

how often did this happen?

# "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
# "...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV

A number of times. The reason for it happening..........

Deut 20:17-18

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

And some of these abomoinations were..........


Deut. 12:29-31

When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;

Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
 


Lev. 20:1-6

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,


Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
 
And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.

And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:

Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.



It appears that the Lord isn't thrilled about these guys, sacrificing their own children to Molech and other deities. And, just in case anyone tries to say anything silly, the Lord makes it clear that He DOES NOT want Israel to worship these gods OR to worship Him the way their neighbors worship their gods.

That's the reason they get displaced from their land.