ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER vs. SERGIO OLIVA: Who was the best?

[johnny1]

That day in 1971 @ 5ft 10 and 106kg (233lbs) SERGIO was both MASSIVE and cut with veins over his whole body quads, calves, and back, i have a heap of not seen b4 pictures (well on the internet anyway) of that day witch of course ill hold off on til i start seeing other people putting up some new material, SERGIO FDB > ARNOLD

[johnny1]

I take what you mean literally, because you said it in a literal sense. You said at his best, his hammies were never in proportion, so I had to disagree since I had proof to dispute that. If I agreed, that would be like saying Sergio had a better biceps peak than Arnold, or that Arnold had a smaller waist than Sergio - which is untrue.

Trust me, I'm trying to be as neutral as I can, too. Nothing in this thread has been a personal attack on you and I DON'T want this to be a truce thread! The reason I made this thread is to finally see which competitor had the best overall physique in (what I thought was) our neutral opinions. Maybe ARNIE1974 should come on board with some comparisons, since he's probably watching this thread.

If we agree that Arnold wins the side chest, then who wins the front double biceps?

Missed read this post first time around...I agree on the Pictures that are CURRENTLY available that Arnold had a better side chest than SERGIO, as you know when comparing there physiques as in the Side-chest etc.. its not just the chest we are comparing, its the whole physique in that pose (eg: Arnold may have a bigger chest, however if its out of proportion with the BALANCE and flow of the rest of the criteria for the pose as in shoulder tie ins, legs, waist etc) thats a different story, the pictures that are available as of NOW yes Arnold side chest > SERGIO

[pumpster]

As i said earlier, there's a natural bias thanks to the dearth of good Sergio shots when he was in his best condition. For example, an absence of double-bi shots in comparable lighting/setting to Arnold's good ones, taken when Oliva was at his best.

[GoneAway]

Both guys are about as thick as eachother. This one seems to come down to your preference of mass vs. cuts; as Sergio has thicker quads/hams, but Arnold has much better cuts and separation through the quads/hams, arms and torso. Tough one to call.

There must be some good studio shots of Sergio from '68-'70, when he was still Mr. Olympia and getting publicity. It would make for a much better comparison. Sergio looks borderline soft here.

[johnny1]

Both guys are about as thick as eachother. This one seems to come down to your preference of mass vs. cuts; as Sergio has thicker quads/hams, but Arnold has much better cuts and separation through the quads/hams, arms and torso. Tough one to call.

There must be some good studio shots of Sergio from '68-'70, when he was still Mr. Olympia and getting publicity. It would make for a much better comparison. Sergio looks borderline soft here.

Nice work and comparison bud, i don,t agree on the borderline soft thing @ all, remember this picture was taken outside under NATURAL sunlight witch 85% of the time wash's out the finer details etc in the physique depending on time of the day etc, as i mentioned you can see clearly SERGIO"S vein's, cuts, etc even in these conditions and does not have the advantage of studio SET lighting witch is designed specally to HIGHLIGHT the cuts, details,lines etc ...as Arnold has in this FDB, Sergio under that same setup as Arnold in my view would look unbelievable.

[GoneAway]

Nice work and comparison bud, i don,t agree on the borderline soft thing @ all, remember this picture was taken outside under NATURAL sunlight witch 85% of the time wash's out the finer details etc in the physique depending on time of the day etc, as i mentioned you can see clearly SERGIO"S vein's, cuts, etc even in these conditions and does not have the advantage of studio SET lighting witch is designed specally to HIGHLIGHT the cuts, details,lines etc ...as Arnold has in this FDB, Sergio under that same setup as Arnold in my view would look unbelievable.

Good point about the lighting. Hopefully someone will be able to find equal lighting conditions of Sergio.

I know for a fact that Jimmy Caruso did do a photoshoot with Sergio around the time of his Olympia wins, so there should be more from that shoot. I expect there are other studio shots of Sergio out there somewhere. If anyone has them, please post. We want to see the best that each guy - especially Sergio - has to offer!

[johnny1]

Yes after SERGIO was beaten bye Arnold for the second time @ the 1970 O, the absence of GOOD studio photos of a PRIME 1971-73 Oliva are pretty scarce, the ones that are available - pre 1970, like this common shot of SERGIO from the 1967 MR WORLD of course @ that stage his physique with the exception of lines and balance would not be comparable with a prime Schwarzenegger

[pumpster]

Both guys are about as thick as eachother. This one seems to come down to your preference of mass vs. cuts; as Sergio has thicker quads/hams, but Arnold has much better cuts and separation through the quads/hams, arms and torso. Tough one to call.

There must be some good studio shots of Sergio from '68-'70, when he was still Mr. Olympia and getting publicity. It would make for a much better comparison. Sergio looks borderline soft here.

As i pointed out, it's not a fair comparison due to the lack of good sergio shots. Ya, I'm sure there are plenty of old Weider shots, that remain inaccessible to the public but they were taken earlier, not when he was at his peak size and shape.

Essentially you have a 1960s Oliva and a 1970s Oliva that were quite different. Both equally great for their eras, but quite the difference.

Also you had the 60s tendency to apply too much oil, that didn't help. Less of a natural look.

[GoneAway]

Sergio impresses me alot in the above 1967 studio photo, but since Johnny is holding out on us with those rare prime Sergio shots, it's about all we have to go by.

In the meantime, here are probably the two best FDB comparisons in terms of both being under the same lighting conditions.

[GoneAway]

I declare this thread a draw and hereby dedicate it to The Austrian Oak and The Myth.

[johnny1]

Arnold 1973 MR OLYMPIA.....SERGIO 1973 MR INTERNATIONAL

[pumpster]

Oliva's almost total lack of upper arm detail is always disappointing; it takes away from the fact that his arms, overall musculature and tapers were on a relative basis better than Arnold's. If his arms and physique overall had muscle maturity and more refinement, i think it would be easier to say he had an edge. His shortcomings there countered his clear advantages in other aspects mentioned above. It's only in the occasional pic in his very best shape that you see any hint of detail. Arnold went much further and acquired great muscle maturity and refinement in '73, Sergio did not. Oliva says now that in hindsight it would have been better for him to have continued training with Arthur Jones; having someone push him made a big difference, clearly.

A great BB should do everything possible to address deficiencies, as Arnold did to bring up his calves and get real lean in '73 especially. I don't think Sergio went that extra mile with arms especially and his physique in general, in large part because it seemed that he didn't have the diet discipline and attention to detail required re: exercises to bring out more muscle maturity and refinement.

You could say the same about Arnold's thigh size, but i think it was genetic because they were in fact fairly large when he was at higher bodyweights, and seemed to be the first thing to shrink when he got leaner. Given that limitation, he did the right thing by focusing on getting them really cut and by drawing attention away from their shortcomings with great calves and posing.

I always give Arnold a slight edge now, based on having gone that extra mile to address the small things that make a difference when it's close, in '73 and '74.

[johnny1]

Alot of Pumpsters post rings true however I feel Sergio DID in fact reach a high level of Muscle maturity well for his physique anyway...unfortunately it wasn,t dueing his PRIME years and that coupled with his obvious discipline issues with diet etc didn,t showcase a PRIME oliva with that maturity, it wasn,t if he hadn,t had enough years under his belt with lifting heavy weights etc, starting off as a weightlifter in the early 1960s so one can only suspect Sergio not paying attention too detail, preparation, diet etc is the reason for this its difficult to find alot of great pictures of SERGIO with alot of arm size and separation however the day below he posed @ the beach i feel shows him with that Muscle Maturity, refinement (especially in the arms and legs the 2 areas he most neglected in his prime years in terms of refinement, detail) That sort of detail on a 1970-1973 Oliva  would (in a non-bais) BB competition would of been damn near unbeatable back then.

[johnny1]

The 1971 Mr Universe line up square off against the 1972 Mr Olympia line up!....Sergio 1971 to Sergio 1972... "what da hell you looking @ punk?...Sergio 1972 to Sergio 1971..."Looks like a fat Fu.k to me"!!!

[Lord Humungous]

For some reason Arnie seems to disapear when he raises his arms, he looks great in a crab pose but when he lifts his arms it all seems to fade away. Could be because he is so tall I guess.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Between these two multi-Olympians, who was the better bodybuilder when it's all said and done?

Arnold is the better bodybuilder of the two , Sergio had a better structure and genetics although that wasn't enough

Arnold more complete , better conditioning , more developed .

[NarcissisticDeity]

Epic Arnold ball-wash. It's easy to claim all these things after the fact, reality is he wasn't totally ready in '72 and wasn't willing to come out of the audience at the International either.

You're a liar and keep pushing this nonsense that Arnold was scared  Sergio did issue a challenge to Arnold , he wanted to accept Weider told him NOT to , Arnold was a couple of weeks out from the Olympia and wasn't 100% contest ready Sergio was , Joe invited Sergio to face Arnold at the Olympia HE REFUSED 

Franco accepted Sergio's challenge as posed with him and the promoter of the sport held both their hands up which is the sign for a tie with Franco

fact Sergio lost 3 times previously to Arnold and one to Bill Pearl , so keep propagating this myth Arnold was scared to compete , Sergio was scared to face Arnold at the Olympia

[NarcissisticDeity]

There wasn't that much difference dude, which is why the rivalry was so great. The rivalry was killed by Joe Weider, not by fair competition all through the early-mid 70s. Not much to do with Arnold's "intellect" actually, just as most of Arnold's rhetoric about "psyching out opponents" wasn't true but sounds great and is believed by many to this day.

More bullshit by GetBig's resident moron Arnold stories of psyching out competitors is a fact like the time he and Sergio were trading shots and he motioned to Sergio they were both done , Sergio walked off stage while Arnold motioned to the crowd ' where's he going ' indicating Sergio had given up , old school Arnold being the dick he was and it worked , same with telling jokes to Frank Zane in 1980 right before he was about to hit a mandatory so he'd be laughing his ass off , there are many more examples should I continue to embarrass you?

[pumpster]

You're a liar and keep pushing this nonsense that Arnold was scared  Sergio did issue a challenge to Arnold , he wanted to accept Weider told him NOT to , Arnold was a couple of weeks out from the Olympia and wasn't 100% contest ready Sergio was , Joe invited Sergio to face Arnold at the Olympia HE REFUSED 

Franco accepted Sergio's challenge as posed with him and the promoter of the sport held both their hands up which is the sign for a tie with Franco

fact Sergio lost 3 times previously to Arnold and one to Bill Pearl , so keep propagating this myth Arnold was scared to compete , Sergio was scared to face Arnold at the Olympia

BITCH MELTDOWN

[pumpster]

Arnold is the better bodybuilder of the two , Sergio had a better structure and genetics although that wasn't enough

Arnold more complete , better conditioning , more developed .

Reiterating everything i've already pointed out LOL I was the first one to post some of A's  better pics on Iron Age, the dumbasses didn't know any better.

[pumpster]

More bullshit by GetBig's resident moron Arnold stories of psyching out competitors is a fact like the time he and Sergio were trading shots and he motioned to Sergio they were both done , Sergio walked off stage while Arnold motioned to the crowd ' where's he going ' indicating Sergio had given up , old school Arnold being the dick he was and it worked , same with telling jokes to Frank Zane in 1980 right before he was about to hit a mandatory so he'd be laughing his ass off , there are many more examples should I continue to embarrass you?

That's one example only, you stupid fvck, hardly the general trend sheep like you believe.

[Lord Humungous]

ND once sucked Arnies tool




















True story!!

[pumpster]

ND once sucked Arnies tool
True story!!

I don't doubt it! This is from ND the shmoe's huge private collection of oiled white BBs that was previously posted, a shot of Yates' nutz LOL what an embarassment.

[NarcissisticDeity]

BITCH MELTDOWN

yeah I thought so  you're busted in an outright lie and have no cognizant reply to offer

Fact Arnold wasn't scared of Sergio , he wanted to go up onstage < Weider said NO , Sergio want to see who's better he's invited to the Olympia which he refused , you keep pushing this lie Arnold was scared , scared of what? he already had 3 wins over Sergio and Sergio lost to Bill Pearl in a NON-IFBB contest so you can't claim Joe Weider and politics either

[NarcissisticDeity]

That's one example only, you stupid fvck, hardly the general trend sheep like you believe.

That's two examples moron needless to say there are many more including Ferrigno and Franco shall I continue?