Author Topic: Even more on the CIA pick  (Read 6602 times)

headhuntersix

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Even more on the CIA pick
« on: January 07, 2009, 09:07:20 AM »
Why 3 threads..because we're at war and its that friggen important.

Ralph Peters.....NY Post


WOULD you ask your accountant to perform brain surgery on your child? That's the closest analogy I can find to the choice of Democratic Party hack Leon Panetta to head the CIA.

Earth to President-elect Obama: Intelligence is serious. And infernally complicated. When we politicize it - as we have for 16 years - we get 9/11. Or, yes, Iraq.

The extreme left, to which Panetta's nomination panders, howled that Bush and Cheney corrupted the intelligence system. Well, I worked in the intel world in the mid 1990s and saw how the Clinton team undermined the system's integrity.

Al Qaeda a serious threat? The Clinton White House didn't want to hear it. Clinton was the pioneer in corrupting intelligence. Bush was just a follow-on homesteader.

Now we've fallen so low that left-wing cadres can applaud the nomination of a CIA chief whose sole qualification is that he's a party loyalist, untainted by experience.

The director's job at the CIA isn't a party favor. This is potentially a matter of life and death for thousands of Americans. But the choice of Panetta tells us all that Barack Obama doesn't take intelligence seriously.

Mark my words: It'll bite him in the butt.

After the military, the intel community is the most complex arm of government. You can't do on-the-job training at the top. While a CIA boss needn't be a career intelligence professional, he or she does need a deep familiarity with the purposes, capabilities, limitations and intricacies of intelligence.

Oh, and you'd better understand the intelligence bureaucracy.

Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.), who was blindsided - and appalled - by the Obama mafia's choice, has the essential knowledge of how the system works. She, or a similar expert, should have gotten this nod. But the president-elect wanted a clean-slate yes-man, not a person of knowledge and integrity.

We're witnessing the initial costs of Obama's career-long lack of interest in foreign policy, the military and intelligence. He doesn't think the top job at the CIA's important and just wants political cover on that flank. (Guess we got Panetta because Caroline Kennedy has another engagement.)

Forget a "team of rivals." Obama's creating a campaign staff for 2012.

Of course, he's reeling from the shrill rage of the Moveon.org crowd over his nomination of grown-ups to be his national-security adviser, director of national intelligence, administrator of veterans' affairs and, yes, secretary of state. (By the way, how could Hillary be dumb enough to accept a job where success is impossible?)

Panetta's appointment is a sop to the hard left, a signal that intelligence will be emasculated for the next four - or eight - years.

Think morale's been bad at the CIA? Just wait.

Conservatives played into this scenario by insisting that any CIA analysis that didn't match the Bush administration's positions perfectly amounted to an attack on the White House. Well, sorry. The intelligence community's job isn't to make anybody feel good - its core mission is to provide nonpartisan analysis to our leaders.

To be a qualified D-CIA, a man or woman needs a sophisticated grasp of three things: The intel system, foreign-policy challenges and the Pentagon (which owns most of our intelligence personnel and hardware). Panetta has no background - none - in any of these areas. He was never interested.

If you handed Leon Panetta a blank map of Asia, I'd bet my life he couldn't plot Baghdad, Kabul or Beijing within 500 miles of their actual locations. (Maybe he can see China from his California think tank?)

This shameless hack appointment is the first action by the incoming administration that seriously worries me. Get intelligence wrong and you get dead Americans.

Ralph Peters was a career intelligence officer in the US Army.






L

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 09:16:15 AM »
(Maybe he can see China from his California think tank?)


So in an effort to convince the reader that this Dem is stupid, they used a play on the a phrase that is attributed to their parties VP candidate.

Nice.  That's like saying he is almost as dumb as a Repub.  (But I don't think he has fallen that far yet.)

240 is Back

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 09:21:34 AM »
if he hires someone from the CIA (where the top guys were all pro-torture) you start the admin with the stain of waterboarding on your shirt.

If he hires someone from outside - an experienced manager (he did run the white house lol), you complain about that too.

The folks in the CIA know how to do their job.  They now have a CEO who didn't toe the company line with cheney on waterboarding.

headhuntersix

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 09:25:35 AM »
I guess u miss the point. Palin is gone...forget her. Obama will be president. U guys need to forget Bush, forget Palin and the rest and worry about what ur guy is doing or not doing. He's made some great picks...this one sucks and is both telling and worrisome.

240 many CIA are saying they will retire when Obama gets in. Great!!! Panetta has said he plans to reverse course on all major CIA policies...he gave an interview on it. In 8 years we have not been attacked. It would appear that when CIA is allowed to play by big boy rules they get the job done. Harsh language and PC bullshit will get ur family killed. Waterboarding and torture will at the very least ensure that the prick being tortured is miserable...we might even get something worthwhile. Besides why do u care if we waterboard some asshole.
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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2009, 09:30:16 AM »
I guess u miss the point. Palin is gone...forget her. Obama will be president. U guys need to forget Bush, forget Palin and the rest and worry about what ur guy is doing or not doing. He's made some great picks...this one sucks and is both telling and worrisome.

240 many CIA are saying they will retire when Obama gets in. Great!!! Panetta has said he plans to reverse course on all major CIA policies...he gave an interview on it. In 8 years we have not been attacked. It would appear that when CIA is allowed to play by big boy rules they get the job done. Harsh language and PC bullshit will get ur family killed. Waterboarding and torture will at the very least ensure that the prick being tortured is miserable...we might even get something worthwhile. Besides why do u care if we waterboard some asshole.

They act like they care. In reality, they couldn't give two shits. This "playing the nice guy" while every other country in the world tortures is what turns people into pussies and leads to people getting killed.

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2009, 09:57:26 AM »
240 many CIA are saying they will retire when Obama gets in. Great!!! Panetta has said he plans to reverse course on all major CIA policies...he gave an interview on it. In 8 years we have not been attacked. It would appear that when CIA is allowed to play by big boy rules they get the job done. Harsh language and PC bullshit will get ur family killed. Waterboarding and torture will at the very least ensure that the prick being tortured is miserable...we might even get something worthwhile. Besides why do u care if we waterboard some asshole.



These folks are resigning because they don't want to be prosecuted or civlilly liable for the people they tortured.  Period.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2009, 10:13:18 AM »


These folks are resigning because they don't want to be prosecuted or civlilly liable for the people they tortured.  Period.


Who do you want at the CIA


Jack Bauer

or

Jack Benny

????????????????????????

240 is Back

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2009, 10:14:35 AM »
Who do you want at the CIA
Jack Bauer
or
Jack Benny
????????????????????????

Right.  I forgot there isn't a middle.  You either waterboard & carpetbomb millions, or you bend over to be sodomized by bad guys.  Nothing in the middle!

Bauer goes up on trial on 24 this sunday, 8 pm on FOX.  I can't wait for this season.  Love that show.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2009, 10:15:36 AM »
Right.  I forgot there isn't a middle. 

Bauer goes up on trial on 24 this sunday, 8 pm on FOX.  I can't wait for this season.  Love that show.

You and I both know that secretely everyone wants Jack Bauer at the CIA.

shootfighter1

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2009, 10:19:39 AM »
Just seems like this is a bad pick by Obama, unlike some of the others.  Insiders have said this is a major blow to the effectiveness and influence of the CIA.  A leader must be respected, will the existing CIA leaders see Panetta as a superior?  The best candidate for the position?  Or someone placed there by Obama to make sure they follow the president's mission change for the CIA.

I vote for Bauer by the way.  Excited about the new season.

240 is Back

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2009, 10:20:20 AM »
You and I both know that secretely everyone wants Jack Bauer at the CIA.

Depends.  Are there 10,000 Jack Bauers walking around the USA looking to shock and kneecap anyone their hunch points at?

It's all hunky dory until Obama and Biden decide it's cool to use the power on you.  Coach thinks "I have nothing to hide, it's cool".  I guess he won't mind the Obama-Cam on his hard-drive and in his living room, then?

shootfighter1

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2009, 10:21:29 AM »
Yes, 240, there can be a middle road, but it doesn't appear that defines this particular pick.

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2009, 10:24:06 AM »
Yes, 240, there can be a middle road, but it doesn't appear that defines this particular pick.

An anti-toruture guy in a building full of pro-torture guys?

No, it doesn't seem to be middle at all.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2009, 10:27:00 AM »
An anti-toruture guy in a building full of pro-torture guys?

No, it doesn't seem to be middle at all.

Seriious;y, if your mother were kidnapped . . . . would you be against waterboarding if you knew that the person had info that could get her back?????

I myself would do whatever WTF it took.

And the same standards I place towards my family is what I place to the USA. 


tonymctones

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2009, 10:28:37 AM »
Depends.  Are there 10,000 Jack Bauers walking around the USA looking to shock and kneecap anyone their hunch points at?

It's all hunky dory until Obama and Biden decide it's cool to use the power on you.  Coach thinks "I have nothing to hide, it's cool".  I guess he won't mind the Obama-Cam on his hard-drive and in his living room, then?
its also all hunky dory until the person that waterboarding could save is you and then you would still be against it?

shootfighter1

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2009, 10:29:40 AM »
You also have 2 people who were far more qualified and wanted the position.  Wonder how the CIA is looking at this pick...probably not hard to guess.

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2009, 10:31:19 AM »
You also have 2 people who were far more qualified and wanted the position.  Wonder how the CIA is looking at this pick...probably not hard to guess.

Panetta is a disaster.

Jack Bauer for CIA Director!   


headhuntersix

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2009, 03:06:55 PM »
Right.  I forgot there isn't a middle.  You either waterboard & carpetbomb millions, or you bend over to be sodomized by bad guys.  Nothing in the middle!

Bauer goes up on trial on 24 this sunday, 8 pm on FOX.  I can't wait for this season.  Love that show.


Dude.....I love u man but when did u become such a pussy...dammit. The folks we're talking about are like nothing u'd ever met. They aren't some big fuzzy teddybear types or some hollywood terrorists with famlies. These guys all suck, they'd knife u and eat ur kids. If waterboarding is the worst they get then good enough. The CIA does some very shady shit beyond waterboarding, thats in the best interest of this country. We can't have some guy that will cave to the left wing blogisphere or Code Pink. Things are a million times more dangerous as when the Clintons last had any power. If u start trying to through intel agenst into jail, either we'll suffer a major attack down the road from lack of information or the folks in charge will end up getting shot. Ur a CT guy, look what happend to Kennedy when he tried to mess with CIA and the MIC. I'm not saying they would, but a pissed off ex-employee or employee's just might. There are tons of trained SOF dudes floating around who would pull the trigger on a senator or gov employee for the right price. If 911 can happen, an assasination isn't outside the realm of possibility, even here.
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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2009, 05:54:37 PM »

Dude.....I love u man but when did u become such a pussy...dammit. The folks we're talking about are like nothing u'd ever met. They aren't some big fuzzy teddybear types or some hollywood terrorists with famlies. These guys all suck, they'd knife u and eat ur kids. If waterboarding is the worst they get then good enough. The CIA does some very shady shit beyond waterboarding, thats in the best interest of this country. We can't have some guy that will cave to the left wing blogisphere or Code Pink. Things are a million times more dangerous as when the Clintons last had any power. If u start trying to through intel agenst into jail, either we'll suffer a major attack down the road from lack of information or the folks in charge will end up getting shot. Ur a CT guy, look what happend to Kennedy when he tried to mess with CIA and the MIC. I'm not saying they would, but a pissed off ex-employee or employee's just might. There are tons of trained SOF dudes floating around who would pull the trigger on a senator or gov employee for the right price. If 911 can happen, an assasination isn't outside the realm of possibility, even here.

i agree that people like that deserve to have their nuts in a vise.

KSM, OBL, etc - I'd dice em up myself then share a ham sandwich with you without even washing my hands :)

My point is that it only takes a penstroke for this practice to go from being used on guys with scary beards in caves, to used on political enemies, etc.  It was HUGE that torture is even A-okay with people in 2008.  In 1998, that shit was unheard of.  It took a lot of fear (hi, 911) to scare ppl into it. 

tonymctones

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2009, 06:00:09 PM »
i agree that people like that deserve to have their nuts in a vise.

KSM, OBL, etc - I'd dice em up myself then share a ham sandwich with you without even washing my hands :)

My point is that it only takes a penstroke for this practice to go from being used on guys with scary beards in caves, to used on political enemies, etc.  It was HUGE that torture is even A-okay with people in 2008.  In 1998, that shit was unheard of.  It took a lot of fear (hi, 911) to scare ppl into it. 
I dont think its necissarily that something scared them into it, its more that 9/11 opened our eyes to certain truths about the world that we had either ignored or become complacent with.

it only takes a pen stroke to lock down an entire city block or send in the national guard to control a city as well...although i understand your point for someone who yells fear mongering everytime a new terrorist threat is brought up especially around the election you should be more skepticle, bad reasoning imho.

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2009, 06:21:24 PM »
it only takes a pen stroke to lock down an entire city block or send in the national guard to control a city as well...although i understand your point for someone who yells fear mongering everytime a new terrorist threat is brought up especially around the election you should be more skepticle, bad reasoning imho.

it's why so many ppl are pissed about traffic cameras on corners, or military stationed in US cities, or empty prisons sitting there "just in case".

it just takes any event - unexpected or just plain allowed to happen- to give the leaders the moxie to change things.  Suddenly those traffic cameras can be used to monitor and give intel to the new UN forces on our streets.  Suddenly anyone who has spoken out against the new guy in office can find himself in a camp 'temporarily'. 

it just takes a stroke of the pen to change things.  It's easy for Coach to say "I don't care about warrantless wiretaps, I have nothing to hide".  But if VP Biden decides to lock up everyone in America who uses HRT or talks about steroids, etc, Joe could find himself being interrogated and held unlawfully while they get to the bottom of it.

A lot of the 'the sky is falling' people are just trying to prevent the pieces from falling into place, so some guy in the future can seriously fck things up.

tonymctones

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2009, 06:27:01 PM »
it's why so many ppl are pissed about traffic cameras on corners, or military stationed in US cities, or empty prisons sitting there "just in case".

it just takes any event - unexpected or just plain allowed to happen- to give the leaders the moxie to change things.  Suddenly those traffic cameras can be used to monitor and give intel to the new UN forces on our streets.  Suddenly anyone who has spoken out against the new guy in office can find himself in a camp 'temporarily'. 

it just takes a stroke of the pen to change things.  It's easy for Coach to say "I don't care about warrantless wiretaps, I have nothing to hide".  But if VP Biden decides to lock up everyone in America who uses HRT or talks about steroids, etc, Joe could find himself being interrogated and held unlawfully while they get to the bottom of it.

A lot of the 'the sky is falling' people are just trying to prevent the pieces from falling into place, so some guy in the future can seriously fck things up.
I agree im more worried however about the very real fact that there are ppl out there willing and able to carry out harmful actions on our citizens and would rather deal with them in anyway possible including torture if it means we can stop them. Everything could be looked at as a piece falling into some puzzle if you think about it hard enough.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2009, 06:33:21 PM »
Is the CIA still into these types of projects?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

Quote
"Feb. 11-15, 1956: A CIA-Army team sprayed New York streets and the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, using trick suitcases and a car with a dual muffler.

June 6-10, 1966: The army report of this test was called A Study of the Vulnerability of Subway Passengers in New York City to Covert Attack with Biological Agents. Trillions of Bacillus subtilis variant guy were released into the subway system during rush hours.

One method was to use light bulbs filled with the bacteria; these were unobtrusively shattered at sidewalk level on subway ventilating grills or tossed onto the roadbeds inside the stations. Aerosol clouds were momentarily visible after a release of bacteria from the light bulbs.

The report noted that ‘When the cloud engulfed people, they brushed their clothing, looked up at the grating apron and walked on.’ The wind of passing trains spread the bacteria along the tracks; in the time it took for two trains to pass, the bacteria were spread from 15th Street to 58th Street.

It will never be known how many people later became ill from being unsuspecting guinea pigs, for the United States Army exhibited not the slightest interest in this question."
S

tonymctones

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2009, 07:01:07 PM »
Is the CIA still into these types of projects?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

this is alot like psychological there is a clear line between ethical and unethical research...however you get the best results from unethical research.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Even more on the CIA pick
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2009, 07:52:01 PM »
Do you support unethical government research projects where citizens are used as lab rats?
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