Bodybuilding is not going to progress?

[Hulkster]

Ronnie doesn't have a refrigerator waste like the Chin man?

that and the fact that the quality has gone way downhill.

its a travesty that Dexter Jackson wins the Mr. O while someone like Shawn Ray never did, since Ray smokes dex from every angle..

[The_Punisher]

About as taxing as any other sport....athletes know the sacrifice, and expect to get beat up preparing

and after all this beating and abuse to their bodies, they ended up out of the top 15 with $1000 check as their recompense......hahahahh ahaha

[The_Punisher]

You really believe that? 

Lets compare bodybuilders to some very extreme athletes, triathletes.

They usually compete several times during the year, around the year.

How do you think they get "beat up" in comparison to pro BB's?

lol.......Anabolics, anyone?

[Relentless]

I agree with the Mr. Olympia not competing to defend his title, but everyone else needs to requalify.

That sounds great in theory, but there are reasons why people aren't doing it now.
 
- The economy is SHIT and contest prep is expensive
- The sponsors should pay the guys more based off how many shows they enter and how well they place
- Bodybuilders are lazy people, despite the outward appearance

[Relentless]

that and the fact that the quality has gone way downhill.

its a travesty that Dexter Jackson wins the Mr. O while someone like Shawn Ray never did, since Ray smokes dex from every angle..

That's right.  The bodybuilding "elite" have fallen way off compared to the 90s.  The guys in the top 5 right now would get smoked by the top 5 from 1998, 1999.

[jesusbod]

that and the fact that the quality has gone way downhill.

its a travesty that Dexter Jackson wins the Mr. O while someone like Shawn Ray never did, since Ray smokes dex from every angle..

I really think that back in the day when Shawn was at his best, he could have been Mr. Olympia but he was too opinionated and talked about too many people. Even though he spoke very intelligently, he bad mouthed people and was a loose cannon. I am sure that played a big part in him not winning.

[Relentless]

I really think that back in the day when Shawn was at his best, he could have been Mr. Olympia but he was too opinionated and talked about too many people. Even though he spoke very intelligently, he bad mouthed people and was a loose cannon. I am sure that played a big part in him not winning.

If that was the prevailing thought, I would tend to disagree.  Shawn was far more articulate than other bodybuilders and would have elevated bodybuilding in the public eye.  Shawn's problem is that he was competing against a guy (Dorian) who the IFBB judges somehow thought represented the ideal.  What a mistake that was. 

The IFBB and bodybuilding rulers should have realized that an aesthetically appealing physique combined with an intellectual guy like Shawn would have done FAR more for bodybuilding than a guy like Dorian Yates. 

[Lynchie]

If that was the prevailing thought, I would tend to disagree.  Shawn was far more articulate than other bodybuilders and would have elevated bodybuilding in the public eye.  Shawn's problem is that he was competing against a guy (Dorian) who the IFBB judges somehow thought represented the ideal.  What a mistake that was. 

The IFBB and bodybuilding rulers should have realized that an aesthetically appealing physique combined with an intellectual guy like Shawn would have done FAR more for bodybuilding than a guy like Dorian Yates. 

I actually got into BB in December 1996. I remember my sis buying me a Flex mag (can't remember issues but it was yellow and had Dorian and his training partner doing chest iirc) and I remember seeing Shawn and though, right, that's me, I want to be THAT. Dorian never really appealed to me since he was just this incredibly muscular guy with crazy development, yet fun to look at. I first heard Shawn speak in one of these BFO videos and also thought he was articulate, if not a bit too opinionated. Not a bad thing but I can see how it would rile people up, but at least he had something to say and dialogue was exchanged. I also saw Paul (too dumb), Lee (too quiet and can't look at the camera), Kevin (too quiet), Aaron Baker (I like him), Chris Cormier (very good development which looked attainable but he didn't have personality), Gunter (who only flashed his toothy smile and gave thumbs up. It gets really old after the 4th time of doing so and it makes you wonder if this guy has anything to say), and a few others which I can't remember now. So yes, perhaps Shawn back in the days could've been a better ambassador for the sport than Dorian was.

[Meso_z]

Bodybuilding Needs

1. MONEY
2. NEW BLOOD
3. AND A "RESET" TO 90'S

[Relentless]

Bodybuilding Needs

1. MONEY
2. NEW BLOOD
3. AND A "RESET" TO 90'S

That sums it up perfectly; unfortunately, I don't think any of these things are around right about now.

[kyomu]

This is not the matter of show or this or that.

Its because of the famous truth of the abuse of illigal drugs.

[Hedgehog]

ALL athletes get "beat up"...it's part of sports....different ways, different injuries...but be assured, any veteren athlete will tell you the sam story from kids doing gymnastics, to football players, to ice skaters...

Not quite sure what your debate is here...?

You claimed bodybuilding is as taxing as any other sport.

In plenty of other sports the athletes are able to compete for long periods of time, week in and week out. Look at the NHL, the ATP tennis tour, et al.

Sure they get beat up from their careers. But I know of cross country skiers who competed at the highest level who have perfect health in their 50's, even in their 80's.
 
Now, the issue in this thread is that bodybuilders choose to compete in fewer and fewer competitions.

So what can be done to give bodybuilders conditions where they are able to compete - and be competitive - several times per year?

I think the only option is to change the judging criteria. Award much smaller physiques.

How about an automatic disqualification on males who hike their trunks up their asses?

And mandatory posing trunks early 80's style. Get rid of that extremely gay "shredded glute" criteria.

Tommi "Glutezilla" Thorvildsen - what kinda nickname is that?

[Chick]

You claimed bodybuilding is as taxing as any other sport.

In plenty of other sports the athletes are able to compete for long periods of time, week in and week out. Look at the NHL, the ATP tennis tour, et al.


They do the same in BB...all the while having to diet to extreme (something they DONT have to do in the other sports)

Sure they get beat up from their careers. But I know of cross country skiers who competed at the highest level who have perfect health in their 50's, even in their 80's.

And I know of BBers that have done the same...some of which STILL compete


Now, the issue in this thread is that bodybuilders choose to compete in fewer and fewer competitions.

So what can be done to give bodybuilders conditions where they are able to compete - and be competitive - several times per year?



1. Increase purse

2. Change schedule to accomodate the athletes


I think the only option is to change the judging criteria. Award much smaller physiques.


Irrelevant to the discussion at hand...you reward the BEST physique, not any "type" of physique


How about an automatic disqualification on males who hike their trunks up their asses?

And mandatory posing trunks early 80's style. Get rid of that extremely gay "shredded glute" criteria.

Tommi "Glutezilla" Thorvildsen - what kinda nickname is that?


How about they just start judging on what the physique (as a whole) looks like, and not whether or not you have lines in your ass? No one would be showing it off if they werent getting rewarded for it with higher plaqcings

[Ursus]

Chick,

Do you not think that the thongs are getting too small and hiked up the ass?

You can tell if someone is lean from other bodyparts.

Bodybuilding is not a sport. There is no skill or tangible pre requisite to decide a winner. Its all subjective

[webcake]

Yes, putting a stop to thongs/trunks wedged up your ass would be a good step for bb'ing to take.

It would be very simple to implement and is a small thing that could clean up the image a bit.

Other than schmoes, no one wants to see Kai Greene grinding the floor in a bright red thong...

[Ursus]

Other federations employ rules against such things as 'bringing disrepute'

Could the Pros be punished for G4P...fucking grapefruits etc...tarnishing reputation of IFBB

Maybe they shpould be stripped of their Pro card if the murder someone etc

All this detracts from teh commercialism, popularity and accessibility of bodybuilding

[Chick]

Guys....you're all putting way too much stock into the whole "size of the trunks/ thing" thing....BB was no more accepted when they were wearing the old style Arnold trunks.

Nothing magical would happen if a posing trunks mandate was passed...Budweiser wouldnt all of a sudden be throwing money at us to be a sponsor...

It all has to do with interest...as a nitche sport, we will never have mainstream appeal, as were not mainstream to begin with...the two seem to go hand in hand.

[Chick]

Other federations employ rules against such things as 'bringing disrepute'

Could the Pros be punished for G4P...fucking grapefruits etc...tarnishing reputation of IFBB

Maybe they shpould be stripped of their Pro card if the murder someone etc

All this detracts from teh commercialism, popularity and accessibility of bodybuilding

This post has more merit, and it's my personal belief that many of the things mentioned should have been addressed a long time ago

[webcake]

Guys....you're all putting way too much stock into the whole "size of the trunks/ thing" thing....BB was no more accepted when they were wearing the old style Arnold trunks.

Nothing magical would happen if a posing trunks mandate was passed...Budweiser wouldnt all of a sudden be throwing money at us to be a sponsor...

It all has to do with interest...as a nitche sport, we will never have mainstream appeal, as were not mainstream to begin with...the two seem to go hand in hand.

I understand this Bob, but surely taking some steps (even small steps) that could clean up bb'ing and it's image would certainly be of value.

That's why i am suggesting this. I'm not complaining about the money they get, the schedule of shows or the promotion of the sport. Those are bigger issues that will require much thought and effort to implement.

This is just a simple thing that most fans of bb'ing would like to see. It WOULD be easy to implement, it would cost nothing and all you would have to do is bring it up at the next IFBB meeting.

[Ursus]

cheers for reply chick.

I agree that the disrepute thing is bad and does tarnish it.

Also maybe getting rid of posing props also.

Lee priest as superman with teh boots and cape, ronnie as moses??? king kamali as a tin man or something.

Also normal size trunks would be IMO make a small step.

I think its insane that we have more smut and gossip on pro bbuilders than almost every single celebrity in the world. crazy

[GigantorX]

It's simple.

Think about all the stuff, lewd acts, drugs, abuse, G4P, dirty dealings, no money etc etc that we speak of on Get Big and project that out to the population at large.

To "them" this "sport" (I use that term very loosely) is insane, gay and pointless. Add in various G4P, steriod scandals linked to "Pro" BBers and the fact that it is promoted like shit and you get BBings current sad state.

[MCWAY]

I agree with the Mr. Olympia not competing to defend his title, but everyone else needs to requalify.

I disagree. They’ve already altered the rule a few years ago, limiting the automatic O qualification to the top 6 from the previous O, instead of the top 10.

The flip side of that is people would then complain about the lack of new blood in the Olympia, because the same guys keep snatching all of the top spots in the lower shows.

Look at how Darrem Charles came through the ranks. He initially got the reputation of being a "best of the rest" bodybuilder (Shawn Perine from FLEX called him a pirate of smaller shows, that he tended to win the late shows, when most of the Olympia elite were gone). But, after a while, he got more recognition and actually started beating some of those Olympia competitors.

Keep in mind, Ronnie Coleman's first win was of similar fashion. Eventually, he got better and better......you know the rest.

If any rule needs to go (assuming it's not already gone), it's the special invite rule. And, in keeping with tradition, I think they should bring back the O qualification for the Mr. Universe winner.

[MCWAY]

Guys....you're all putting way too much stock into the whole "size of the trunks/ thing" thing....BB was no more accepted when they were wearing the old style Arnold trunks.

Nothing magical would happen if a posing trunks mandate was passed...Budweiser wouldnt all of a sudden be throwing money at us to be a sponsor...

EXACTLY!!! The top prize back then was $1000, ALL OF WHICH went to the winner.  Heck, the only thing Larry Scott got for his first win was a goofy-looking crown.

It all has to do with interest...as a nitche sport, we will never have mainstream appeal, as were not mainstream to begin with...the two seem to go hand in hand.

I think it’s because nothing/no one is being hit or slammed or lifted, etc. In the average guy’s mind, big muscles are supposed to do something, not just look good.

That’s why, for example, pro wrestlers, with bodybuilder-type physiques (along with a good wrestling persona), tend to be quite popular. Look at guys, like John Cena, Dave Batista, etc.

I’ve always said that fat wrestlers were a necessity in the ring, because it makes the muscular wrestlers look cool, when they slam their chubby opponents (i.e. “The Slam Heard ‘Round The World”, a reference to Hulk Hogan bodyslamming 520-lb Andre the Giant, in front of 93,000+ people); the crowd went NUTS!!!

Bodybuilders have to do something with their muscles, in order to impress the average Joe. That’s why a lot of bodybuilders, during Arnold’s time, doubled as professional strongmen (i.e. Bill Pearl, Reg Park, etc). They probably got WAY more money for that than they did for their bodybuilding efforts.

It's simple.

Think about all the stuff, lewd acts, drugs, abuse, G4P, dirty dealings, no money etc etc that we speak of on Get Big and project that out to the population at large.

To "them" this "sport" (I use that term very loosely) is insane, gay and pointless. Add in various G4P, steriod scandals linked to "Pro" BBers and the fact that it is promoted like shit and you get BBings current sad state.

That's a rather flawed argument. There's plenty of drugs, lewd acts, even some "down-low" dudes in football. Yet, for some reason, the NFL didn't have a problem stuffing Raymond James Stadium for the Super Bowl.

You're talking about people's personal issues, here. That has NOTHING to do with the essence of bodybuilding competition itself. Plus, unlike certain bodybuilding magazines (or poster here), you don't seen Football Weekly or NFL.com (or its readers and posters) starting a bazillion threads about the drug regimens of certain wide receivers or tight ends, or which running backs are supposedly getting freaky with citrus fruit.

[MCWAY]

This is not the matter of show or this or that.

Its because of the famous truth of the abuse of illigal drugs.

If that were the case, baseball, football, and wrestling would be "niche" entities, as well.

Yet, Steroid abuse didn't stop the NFL from stuffing Raymond James Stadium for the Super Bowl.

And, in 2008, less than a year after the publicized Christ Benoit incident (in which steroids were highlighted to the hilt, regarding that murder-suicide deal), WWE packed the Florida Citrus Bowl with 74,635 fans for WrestleMania XXIV. And Wrestlemania XXV will nearly match its predecessor in attendance.

[MCWAY]

Bodybuilding Needs

1. MONEY
2. NEW BLOOD
3. AND A "RESET" TO 90'S

A reset to the 90s isn’t going to change a darn thing. People forget that the same complaints we hear about bodybuilding now, we heard over a decade ago.

Everything about which you’re complaining, concerning today’s competitors, guys from the 80s were saying about bodybuilders from the 90s (the very era you are praising).

Guys from the 70s were blubbering about the “drug abuse” of bodybuilders from the 80s.

And, SURPRISE, guys from the 50s and 60s were complaining about steroid abuse within Arnold’s heyday of competition in the 70s.

It’s a cyclic thing, nothing more. Steroid use isn’t the big hindrance. It’s the nature of bodybuilding itself, and the perception that bodybuilders aren’t athletic and do nothing with their muscles, besides flex and pose.

With that said, There’s plenty of new blood in bodybuilding. But when this new blood starts making an impact and winning shows (at the expense of some old favorites, namely a handful of guys, whom some think should have won this or that show, but didn’t), we hear constant complaining.

Look at Phil Heath. He wins the USA in 2005; then, he goes on to take his first two pro shows, beating a number of veterans, including men who’ve won shows in the past and placed top-10 at the Olympia.

Yet, there were cries galore as to Heath being “overhyped”, a “Weider boy”, and a plethora of excuses for his phenomenal success his rookie year. Then the screams got louder, when he placed 5th at the 2007 ASC (which is hardly chopped liver). Now it was, “Oh, he can’t compete with the big boys; he’s a fluke!”, etc.

Then in 2008, he wins the IronMan and placed second to the guy who would eventually end up being Mr. Olympia. And in the process, he bested some of the same guys that beat him the previous year. There have been theories and excuses and complaints out the behind as to why Heath has been so successful (other than the blatantly obvious fact that...HE'S JUST THAT DARN GOOD!!!).

Plus, a lot of this "new blood" are veterans who have perservered and are finally starting to taste the fruits of their labor.