The Stimulus Package

[Straw Man]

LOL so you want me to go over all the specific details but your ok with the ppl voting on it not reading it? that makes perfect sense bro...

How do you know it has't been read.  Someone wrote the damn thing.  I have no doub that ever page has not been read by every Representative but that's the way it has been for every other bit of legislation.

sheesh man - first you bitch that you don't know the details and that the White House is not giving the people accountability and transparency.

I give you a link from the White House with links to the conference committee report and a link to send your own opinion to the White House.

Why not spend a little time looking at it and give your sage "advises" to the White House.

[Bindare_Dundat]

'

In 2009, the $ is going to create jobs.  Full accountability.
In 2008, it went to bankers to use as they wished.  Zero accountability.

Any comment on TARP2?

[tonymctones]

How do you know it has't been read.  Someone wrote the damn thing.  I have no doub that ever page has not been read by every Representative but that's the way it has been for every other bit of legislation.

sheesh man - first you bitch that you don't know the details and that the White House is not giving the people accountability and transparency.

I give you a link from the White House with links to the conference committee report and a link to send your own opinion to the White House.

Why not spend a little time looking at it and give your sage "advises" to the White House.

LOL bro ONE MORE FUKING TIME FOR YOU this is not any other piece of fuking legislation do you not understand that this is one of the biggest pieces if not biggest piece of legislation we have ever voted on that in itself warrants a CLOSER LOOK wouldnt you agree? Many senetors have come out and said that they didnt have enough time to read it, nobody to my knowledge has come out and said i read it all...dont you think they would if they had in defense of it?

In addition instead of giving it in a electronic format that can be scanned for words or phrases they give it to everybody in a text format that must be read I.E. take much longer.

Ive read some of it im not going to read it all its not my job its the politicians job which they arent doing, if the white house doesnt hear the pleas from republicans and the few democrats to slow down and process this bill instead of rushing it through what makes you think they will hear mine?

[Hedgehog]

Bump for this tidbit of fact.

Serious question here... Why is it all of a sudden a bad thing to spend 750 billion to stimulate the economy in 2009 when it's got actual things it's going to do... but giving away 750 billion dollars in 2008 was an ok thing to do.

Why are things different now when it comes to the money?  Why didn't the Republicans jump up and down then? At least now, they actually have some items and groups that will directly receive the money to do something and won't just "get lost" like a few billion did when it went to the banks just to "prop up" their credit markets.

Which one is more worthwhile?

Banks are essential for a healthy capitalist system.
But there was plenty lack of transparancy and even control during the bailout.
It was necessary to do, but should've been done with much more control and force from the government.
The biggest banks who were in trouble could've been partly taken over for awhile to secure the banking sector.
That's how the banks have been secured in Europe and that didn't cost as much.
Plus, there is a good chance the tax payers money will be paid back once the government gets out of the banks.

The stimulus is important to get things rolling again.

The problem is that the former president was so fiscally irresponsible.
Which gives the current president a fcuked up foundation to build on.
   

[Straw Man]

LOL bro ONE MORE FUKING TIME FOR YOU this is not any other piece of fuking legislation do you not understand that this is one of the biggest pieces if not biggest piece of legislation we have ever voted on that in itself warrants a CLOSER LOOK wouldnt you agree? Many senetors have come out and said that they didnt have enough time to read it, nobody to my knowledge has come out and said i read it all...dont you think they would if they had in defense of it?

In addition instead of giving it in a electronic format that can be scanned for words or phrases they give it to everybody in a text format that must be read I.E. take much longer.

Ive read some of it im not going to read it all its not my job its the politicians job which they arent doing, if the white house doesnt hear the pleas from republicans and the few democrats to slow down and process this bill instead of rushing it through what makes you think they will hear mine?

well it's definitely a lot easier to bitch about generalities on a message board.

I'm going to assume that the people who wrote it know what is in there and since I voted for the Democrats and they wrote I'm going to assume I'm in favor of most of it.  Of course it doesn't matter either way.  All that matters are the results

[tonymctones]

Bump for this tidbit of fact.

Serious question here... Why is it all of a sudden a bad thing to spend 750 billion to stimulate the economy in 2009 when it's got actual things it's going to do... but giving away 750 billion dollars in 2008 was an ok thing to do.

Why are things different now when it comes to the money?  Why didn't the Republicans jump up and down then? At least now, they actually have some items and groups that will directly receive the money to do something and won't just "get lost" like a few billion did when it went to the banks just to "prop up" their credit markets.

Which one is more worthwhile?

actually alot of reps did jump up and down against the tarp

LOL if you dont think millions or billions will get wasted on this bill your crazy bro

Also you have tarp2 coming down the pipeline, everybody knows it obamas hinted at it another trillion or so to be spent so purse strings are tightening.

[tonymctones]

well it's definitely a lot easier to bitch about generalities on a message board.

I'm going to assume that the people who wrote it know what is in there and since I voted for the Democrats and they wrote I'm going to assume I'm in favor of most of it.  Of course it doesn't matter either way.  All that matters are the results

well in all honesty it looks and sounds like ppl on this board care more about it then alot of politicians voting on it.

I think thats a horrible way of looking at it bro imho...i will agree to a certain extent that the results are all that matter.

[Straw Man]

actually alot of reps did jump up and down against the tarp

LOL if you dont think millions or billions will get wasted on this bill your crazy bro

Also you have tarp2 coming down the pipeline, everybody knows it obamas hinted at it another trillion or so to be spent so purse strings are tightening.

the thing that really pisses me off about the first first half of the TARP $$$ is that it was sold as one plan (buying toxic assets at deep discounts) and was implemented as another plan (buying preferred shares in fucked up banks).   In fact Paulsen said that buying shares was a bad idea and then did that very thing.

I think the tax payer would have been better off with assets purchased @ 20 cents on the dollar than preferred shares in a bank that could eventually be worthless.  Regardless, the current plan was a bait a switch job (IMO) and the lack of oversight and accountability is a stain on both parties

[Straw Man]

well in all honesty it looks and sounds like ppl on this board care more about it then alot of politicians voting on it.

I think thats a horrible way of looking at it bro imho...i will agree to a certain extent that the results are all that matter.

what's my alternative?

I was completely against the invasion of Iraq but my tax dollars went there too.

If I voted for the Democrats then I should at least let them do their job and pass judgement on the results.

If the results suck and the Repubs find some better ideas then maybe I'll vote for them next time

[tonymctones]

the thing that really pisses me off about the first first half of the TARP $$$ is that it was sold as one plan (buying toxic assets at deep discounts) and was implemented as another plan (buying preferred shares in fucked up banks).   In fact Paulsen said that buying shares was a bad idea and then did that very thing.

I think the tax payer would have been better off with assets purchased @ 20 cents on the dollar than preferred shares in a bank that could eventually be worthless.  Regardless, the current plan was a bait a switch job (IMO) and the lack of oversight and accountability is a stain on both parties

very true alot of ppl from both sides called for more oversight as well and even called alot of the moves that have been made as in money not being used for what it was intended.

[tonymctones]

what's my alternative?

I was completely against the invasion of Iraq but my tax dollars went there too.

If I voted for the Democrats then I should at least let them do their job and pass judgement on the results.

If the results suck and the Repubs find some better ideas then maybe I'll vote for them next time

what ideas of the dems to you find so appealing and what ideas of the reps do you find so unappealing?

[Straw Man]

what ideas of the dems to you find so appealing and what ideas of the reps do you find so unappealing?

The Republicans have 2 ideas:  Do nothing and let nature take its course and/or give wealty people and corporations more tax cuts and hope they'll bestow the other 98% of the tax payers with a few jobs.

The Dems in general are more fiscally responsible and more concerned with things that benefit the majority rather than a tiny minority.

In general, I support the Democratic attempts to fix the current mess that Bush and the Repubs have put us in and I'm more than happy to wait until we have some results before passing judgement

[tonymctones]

The Republicans have 2 ideas:  Do nothing and let nature take its course and/or give wealty people and corporations more tax cuts and hope they'll bestow the other 98% of the tax payers with a few jobs.

The Dems in general are more fiscally responsible and more concerned with things that benefit the majority rather than a tiny minority.

In general, I support the Democratic attempts to fix the current mess that Bush and the Repubs have put us in and I'm more than happy to wait until we have some results before passing judgement

Maybe i should have said conservatives instead of reps.

LOL you putting all this on bush and the reps is again fuking hillarious you and 240 should team up.

LOL the dems are more concerned with the majority rather then the minority did you really just say that? well fair, immigration, social causes etc...the dems are the champions of lost causes

[Straw Man]

Maybe i should have said conservatives instead of reps.

LOL you putting all this on bush and the reps is again fuking hillarious you and 240 should team up.

LOL the dems are more concerned with the majority rather then the minority did you really just say that? well fair, immigration, social causes etc...the dems are the champions of lost causes

what's "well fair" ?

lost causes?

let me guess - your solution is to give up and do nothing.

 

[Bindare_Dundat]

It was necessary to do, but should've been done with much more control and force from the government.

   

Don't you think government intervention was part of the problem?

[tonymctones]

what's "well fair" ?

lost causes?

let me guess - your solution is to give up and do nothing.

 

welfare i appologize

yes lost causes

dude acting just to act is why we are in iraq right now, its not a good idea to simply do something to be doing something if you are not sure that what you are doing isnt moving in the right direction, wouldnt you agree? Ive already told you i agree something needs to be done, of this magnitude NO, this wasteful NO, this RUSHED NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Straw Man]

welfare i appologize

yes lost causes

dude acting just to act is why we are in iraq right now, its not a good idea to simply do something to be doing something if you are not sure that what you are doing isnt moving in the right direction, wouldnt you agree? Ive already told you i agree something needs to be done, of this magnitude NO, this wasteful NO, this RUSHED NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Neither of us know the fine details of how the money will be spent but somehow you've decided that it's too big and too wasteful. 

You're entitled to your opinion

My opinion is that the people who wrote the legislation and debated it know enough to render a decision

The Republican point of view is pretty cut and dried - everyone in House and all but 3 in the Senate are against it.

[tonymctones]

Neither of us know the fine details of how the money will be spent but somehow you've decided that it's too big and too wasteful. 

You're entitled to your opinion

My opinion is that the people who wrote the legislation and debated it know enough to render a decision

The Republican point of view is pretty cut and dried - everyone in House and all but 3 in the Senate are against it.

yes i have and im not the only one, democrats have voted against this bill as well and they arent against doing something like youd like to imply they are against this spending bill thats been rammed down our throats.

[Straw Man]

yes i have and im not the only one, democrats have voted against this bill as well and they arent against doing something like youd like to imply they are against this spending bill thats been rammed down our throats.

some Dems have voted against it and I think that's a good thing

I hate when either side just votes like a block.   

[tonymctones]

some Dems have voted against it and I think that's a good thing

I hate when either side just votes like a block.   

Ill agree with you on that.

[Straw Man]

Since no Repubs in the House voted for it shouldn't they really refuse to accept any of the $$$?

I mean it's not going to create any jobs anyway  so it really won't make any difference if they don't take the $$$.

Come on Repubs - That would be walkng your talk

Paul Begala must read Get Big.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/16/begala.carolina/index.html

Seriously though, if opponents of the bill truly believe it will provide no economic stimulus then they have a perfect chance to prove their point.   Refuse the $$$$ and prove your point.

[tonymctones]

Paul Begala must read Get Big.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/16/begala.carolina/index.html

Seriously though, if opponents of the bill truly believe it will provide no economic stimulus then they have a perfect chance to prove their point.   Refuse the $$$$ and prove your point.

again are they going to be exempt from paying back this tremendous spending bill? thought not

[Straw Man]

again are they going to be exempt from paying back this tremendous spending bill? thought not

but they could take the moral high ground and prove their point

I'd like to see none of my tax $$$'s go to the Office of Faith Based Initiaves but I get no choice in that matter either

[tonymctones]

but they could take the moral high ground and prove their point

I'd like to see none of my tax $$$'s go to the Office of Faith Based Initiaves but I get no choice in that matter either

LOL so you want them not to take billions in spending so that ppl like pelosi and her cronies can spend more on their idiotic pet projects and then still have to pay back? thats what your suggesting? hahahahahah LOL again maybe you and 240 should team up bro your quickly falling in line with him.

[Straw Man]

LOL so you want them not to take billions in spending so that ppl like pelosi and her cronies can spend more on their idiotic pet projects and then still have to pay back? thats what your suggesting? hahahahahah LOL again maybe you and 240 should team up bro your quickly falling in line with him.

Pet Projects?

you're still hung up on thoroughly debunked talking points?

According to Repubs the stimulus won't work - i.e. it won't create any jobs so imagine how successful they could be in the 2010 election when they can claim they took no money and they can compare the results in their state with other states who did take the money.  If their claim is correct then they will have the high ground in the next election.   Of course the downside would be that their states would lag behind any recovery but that's a chance that they should have the balls to take.    They should Walk their Talk.   I'm sure their constituents would appreciate that.