Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!

[England_1]

hahaha ronnie crushes dorian there - detail, cuts everywhere - and he's not even doing a lat spread

dorian showing the now classic 'radiation poisoning' quads LOL

Delusional as always. Ronnie is getting MURDERED there. Smooth as a marshmellow.

[Hulkster]

I laugh at you when you commit to statements lol I seriously do , Hulkster I get that you like Ronnie's front latspread better than you do Dorian's however that doesn't mean it is and I can explain why but you don't go by the criteria just what you like

now what makes me laugh is you typed Shawn was in better condition than Dorian 1995 and he was off from his 1994 conditioning , you consistently prove how little you know about competitive bodybuilding

first of all, its not just what I like -its applying criteria:

ronnie has better shaped arms, more detailed arms, more detailed pecs, way better quad shape and detail, fantastic lats,  vascularity that is absent in dorian etc. etc. his balance is fantastic (even his calves look okay because his quads are not 2003 level size). its a perfect lat spread.

dorian his great lats, wide waist, muscles devoid of detail (from the radiation? LOL) etc.

its not even close.

secondly as far as shawn ray and conditioning  goes, I suggest you take back your words:

shawn is schooling dorian in terms of conditioning here:

this is all criteria on which the pose is evaluated..

[Hulkster]

shawn teaching dorian a lesson about conditioning in 95..

[NarcissisticDeity]

first of all, its not just what I like -its applying criteria:

ronnie has better shaped arms, more detailed arms, more detailed pecs, way better quad shape and detail, fantastic lats,  vascularity that is absent in dorian etc. etc. his balance is fantastic (even his calves look okay because his quads are not 2003 level size). its a perfect lat spread.

dorian his great lats, wide waist, muscles devoid of detail (from the radiation? LOL) etc.

its not even close.

secondly as far as shawn ray and conditioning  goes, I suggest you take back your words:

shawn is schooling dorian in terms of conditioning here:

this is all criteria on which the pose is evaluated..

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE CRITERIA so how can you apply it? you can't

and you don't have the slightest clue what constitutes great conditioning so you type empty words when you type Shawn is ' schooling ' Dorian 1995 on conditioning

[Hulkster]

LOL ND is melting down because I showed he was wrong like always.

and I'm  about to do it again: 95 again, again dorian being schooled in the conditioning department by none other than little shawn ray:

[NarcissisticDeity]

LOL ND is melting down because I showed he was wrong like always.

and I'm  about to do it again: 95 again, again dorian being schooled in the conditioning department by none other than little shawn ray:

Again you know what about conditioning? you're the same guy who thinks Ronnie was better conditioned in 1999 than 1998 

[Hulkster]

Again you know what about conditioning? you're the same guy who thinks Ronnie was better conditioned in 1999 than 1998 

funny, Ronnie himself said the very same thing:

he knows more than you and more than McGough ever will about his own physique..

http://www.dennisbweis.com/Articles/Colman.html

I was almost 15 pounds heavier than last year, with a little bit better conditioning than last year[/b]

you are fucked..

you always fail when you try and make it seem like I don't know what I am talking about.

always..

[Hulkster]

..ND looking up #474656759467659505 on his list of excuses...

[NeoSeminole]

Dryness and Density increase as water retention decreases.

this means shit all. I asked for how you determine dryness and density. I didn't ask for you to define it. Suppose we didn't know anything about Dorian and Ronnie and were only judging them based solely on physiques. What criteria are you using to determine who is dryer or denser?

[IceCold]

its from the 2001 Arnold Classic, where the idiot nuthuggers love to point out that he was 'only 247 pounds'

what they don't get is, that unlike their hero, he looked like he was about 280 because of his freaky conditioning, and freaky shape, combined with the tiny waist..dorian just had the conditioning - without the shape or taper to go along with it..

looked like 280?

please.  so what did ronnie look like when he weighed 280?  330?

by the way, when ronnie LOST to cutler and gunter, ronnie still had more striations, but both jay and gunter were harder.

so much for your theory on striations.

[NeoSeminole]

Wrong. Separations and striations are partially genetic. That is, at the exact same level of bodyfat and water, one bodybuilder will have more or less sparations and striations than another.

if two bodybuilders with the same conditioning can have varying amounts of total separations and striations, then what is anatomically responsible for this disparity?

[Hulkster]

looked like 280?

please.  so what did ronnie look like when he weighed 280?  330?

in some shots, yes:

[ASJChaotic]

FFS!

another thread turns into Ronnie vs Dorian 
don't you guys ever get tired?
seriously, you have said THE SAME THINGS over a thousand times
FFS!!!!

[Royal Lion]

if two bodybuilders with the same conditioning can have varying amounts of total separations and striations, then what is anatomically responsible for this disparity?

So you're saying that every person has the identical muscle bellies, tie-ins, and striations?  So, under your "theory" if Dorian could have gotten just a little more conditioned he would have the same separation and striations as Ronnie?  That makes no sense at all.  Genetic differences in muscular structure are anatomically responsible for this disparity.

As for "dryness", I defined it because if we knew nothing about criteria, we would determine who has the driest physique by who is holding the least amount of water.  Applying the definition is how you determine it....what a difficult concept...

[suckmymuscle]

if two bodybuilders with the same conditioning can have varying amounts of total separations and striations, then what is anatomically responsible for this disparity?

  I don't need to know the answer to that because the proof is in the pudding: two bodybuilders at the same levels of bodyfat and water have different levels of separations and striations. Example: Wheeler at the 93' Ironman and Branch Warren at the New York Pro. Both were insanely dry and at around 3% bodyfat, and yet Wheeler displayed far more separations and striations.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

So you're saying that every person has the identical muscle bellies, tie-ins, and striations?

what does muscle shape have to do with definition?

So, under your "theory" if Dorian could have gotten just a little more conditioned he would have the same separation and striations as Ronnie?  That makes no sense at all.  Genetic differences in muscular structure are anatomically responsible for this disparity.

basically, everyone would display the same amount of separations and striations if you equalized body fat and water levels. The only role genetics plays is influencing what areas a person carries more fat and water. For example, one guy might have naturally defined triceps while another guy has more defined calves. As a bodybuilder approaches the limit for conditioning, he begins to display more separations and striations all over. There is a point where you cannot achieve more definition. This is why you will never see a bodybuilder with striated striations. Munzer and Ronnie reached the apex for conditioning b/c they displayed the most definition a human can achieve.

As for "dryness", I defined it because if we knew nothing about criteria, we would determine who has the driest physique by who is holding the least amount of water.  Applying the definition is how you determine it....what a difficult concept...

oh hai ND Last time I checked, bodybuilding is a visual sport. So what visual cues are you using to determine who is dryer or denser? I don't understand why this is difficult for you to answer.

[NeoSeminole]

I don't need to know the answer to that because the proof is in the pudding: two bodybuilders at the same levels of bodyfat and water have different levels of separations and striations. Example: Wheeler at the 93' Ironman and Branch Warren at the New York Pro. Both were insanely dry and at around 3% bodyfat, and yet Wheeler displayed far more separations and striations.

translation: I don't know. So I'm going to pull some statistics out of my ass to support my argument.

[suckmymuscle]

basically, everyone would display the same amount of separations and striations if you equalized body fat and water levels. The only role genetics plays is influencing what areas a person carries more fat and water. For example, one guy might have naturally defined triceps while another guy has more defined calves. As a bodybuilder approaches the limit for conditioning, he begins to display more separations and striations all over. There is a point where you cannot achieve more definition. This is why you will never see a bodybuilder with striated striations. Munzer and Ronnie reached the apex for conditioning b/c they displayed the most definition a human can achieve.

  Wrong. Two bodybuilders at the same level of bodyfat and water will display overral different levels of separation and striations. Case in point: Branch Warren at the New York Pro and Wheeler at the 93' Ironman. Both were at 3% bodyfat and dehydrated to the bone, and yet Wheeler had more separations in his back, arms, legs, chest, etc. Branch was as low as a Human can go in both bodyfat and water, and yet he wasn't as separated or striated as Wheeler at the 93' Ironman.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

translation: I don't know. So I'm going to pull some statistics out of my ass to support my argument.

  What you're asking me is irrelevant. I don't need to know the cause of an effect to observe such effect. This is simple deductive logic. By using my eyes, I have observed that even when they take bodyfat and water levels to lower levels than their competitors, some bodybuilders just don't become as cut and striated. For instance, I know that if I hit my finger with a hammer, it is going to hurt as hell. I don't know what are the exact neurochemical processes that translate as pain, but not knowing them doesen't change the fact that I know the effect - the pain. Of course there is a reason for it, but knowing it is not needed to prove my observation.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NarcissisticDeity]

funny, Ronnie himself said the very same thing:

he knows more than you and more than McGough ever will about his own physique..

http://www.dennisbweis.com/Articles/Colman.html

you are fucked..

you always fail when you try and make it seem like I don't know what I am talking about.

always..

Funny on when on a radio show last year and asked which Mr Olympia was his best Ronnie said..... " I would have to say my first because my conditioning was spot-on. " BOOM thanks for playing kid.

he knows more than you and more than McGough ever will about his own physique..

that statement will haunt you kid 

[NarcissisticDeity]

looked like 280?

please.  so what did ronnie look like when he weighed 280?  330?

by the way, when ronnie LOST to cutler and gunter, ronnie still had more striations, but both jay and gunter were harder.

so much for your theory on striations.

ha ha ha ha Hulkster owed yet again lol Great post ! so much for striations

[NarcissisticDeity]

So you're saying that every person has the identical muscle bellies, tie-ins, and striations?  So, under your "theory" if Dorian could have gotten just a little more conditioned he would have the same separation and striations as Ronnie?  That makes no sense at all.  Genetic differences in muscular structure are anatomically responsible for this disparity.

As for "dryness", I defined it because if we knew nothing about criteria, we would determine who has the driest physique by who is holding the least amount of water.  Applying the definition is how you determine it....what a difficult concept...

Exactly separations and striations when all things being equal are genetic as long as the conditioning is at it's best , it's a concept he can't grasp , he thinks more striations equals better conditioning which even on a base level isn't true because one can be holding a film of water over a striated muscle and one can be dry but still carry a lot of intramuscular fat

And another part which he overlooks is that fact pictures and video can NEVER replace actually seeing people live and in person , and most of the Yates pictures are mediocre scans from magazine from 1993 , with the advent of digital photography there are a lot more high quality pictures of Ronnie than Dorian and the simple fact that countless people time and time have said Dorian looks eons better live and in person than he does in pics & video , yet knowing all of this he's still going to make a fan-boy assessment that Dorian wasn't harder or drier despite NEVER once seeing either live and in person and claiming the people who do say Yates is better conditioned are flat out wrong lol

He's a proud little man ...he likes to act like he knows what he's talking about and he's been proven wrong countless times by me so he just can't accept the fact he's been proven wrong by me yet again so he's forced to stick to this story 

[NarcissisticDeity]

if two bodybuilders with the same conditioning can have varying amounts of total separations and striations, then what is anatomically responsible for this disparity?

It's called genetics , the same reason why some bodybuilders are more vascular than others even though both are well conditioned

[NeoSeminole]

What you're asking me is irrelevant. I don't need to know the cause of an effect to observe such effect. This is simple deductive logic. By using my eyes, I have observed that even when they take bodyfat and water levels to lower levels than their competitors, some bodybuilders just don't become as cut and striated. For instance, I know that if I hit my finger with a hammer, it is going to hurt as hell. I don't know what are the exact neurochemical processes that translate as pain, but not knowing them doesen't change the fact that I know the effect - the pain. Of course there is a reason for it, but knowing it is not needed to prove my observation.

wrong, my question is perfectly relevant. Muscle definition is obscured by skin, body fat, water levels, and muscle fascia. This is anatomy 101. You claim that Dorian achieved lower body fat and water levels, which leaves the skin and muscle fascia as responsible for covering up the muscle. However, Dorian has thin skin and the fascia is only like a mm thick, if that. So basically what you're saying about Dorian having better conditioning than Munzer or Ronnie contradicts medical literature. I love how you can't dispute me with actual evidence so you invent facts.

[NeoSeminole]

It's called genetics , the same reason why some bodybuilders are more vascular than others even though both are well conditioned

riiiiiight, b/c chromosomes are so large that you can actually see them.