Author Topic: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.  (Read 48547 times)

io856

  • Guest
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #150 on: June 19, 2009, 05:58:55 PM »
I dont think Royal Lion knows who he is debating.

Sucky has claimed to bench 600lb+ with ease, he is a multi millionare, he was kicked out of the special forces because he was "too good", he broke a German Shepards back with his bare hands.

Royal Lion, you decide where to take it from here, LOL.
I believe it...

The german shephard "roid rage" incident is a little suspect but other than that it doesn't seem too outlandish since he was born to money, geared up for a considerable amount of time, success seems to come through in his posts... overall the type of guy people should be taking seriously

tbombz

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19350
  • Psalms 150
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2009, 06:02:06 PM »
cmon brother you cant be seriously giving advice about sprinters needing to back off of there training to be better. that is simply wrong
thats not what he said. he said guys who are sprinters would have bigger quads if they stopped sprinting and running all the time and just stuck to weight training.

slaveboy1980

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8404
  • Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades.
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #152 on: June 19, 2009, 06:03:36 PM »
lol

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #153 on: June 19, 2009, 06:04:28 PM »
That point does not refute the fact that fast twitch fibers are maximized by low volume explosive lifting.

  Who gives a shit, dumbass? It obviously doesen't maximize the hypertrophy of muscle fibers like multiple sets with higher reps, otherwise sprinters and strengh trainers would be more muscular than bodybuilders. Duh! And you can't use the large quads of sprinters as evidence for low volume and heavy weights because they also do lots of volume with their sprinting. You need to compare strict strengh trainers with traditional volume weight trainers, because the fact that sprinters do higher volume with their sprinting is an extrinsec variable that confounds results. ;)

Quote
And a byproduct of this same lifting method is increased muscle size.

  I never claimed that powerlifting training doesen't increase muscle size to some degree, illiterate moron. Read my first post and I state that it doesen't work as well as using moderate weights for more sets and reps. The lifting method you are defending results in a disproportional strengh gain in realtion to muscular hypertrophy gains.

Quote
Comparing a sprinter to a bodybuilder has nothing to do with this.

  It has everything to do with it if your IQ is in the triple digits. I think unfortunately this is not your case.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #154 on: June 19, 2009, 06:08:32 PM »
Thanks for the insight - I am not surprised!  I am done wasting my time attempting to explain relatively simple concepts to him. 

  Your problem is that you've been getting owned by me for 7 pages now, and you still think that you're right. It is incredible how someone as stupid as you thinks that he can debate someone intelligent. I have dismissed and destroyed all the stupid examples you brought up and have defended my theory as logically consistent. Your stupidity is only surpassed by your pride. Oh wait, that's impossible. ;D

SUCKMYMUSCLE

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #155 on: June 19, 2009, 06:09:56 PM »
thats not what he said. he said guys who are sprinters would have bigger quads if they stopped sprinting and running all the time and just stuck to weight training.

  Thanks, bro. The only really dumb people posting here are Royal Ass and Einsenhertz. The others' problems are simply reading comprehension. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Cap

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6363
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= CSP111
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #156 on: June 19, 2009, 06:42:40 PM »
 How do you know their quad muscles are the result of this training and not the sprinting? Powerlifters should have more massive quads than bodybuilders since they can squat a lot more, and yet bodybuilders have much bigger quad muscles than powerlifters. Riddle me that? And if sprinters do heavy weights for low volume it also proves my point, since their quads are a lot smaller than bodybuiders'. The reason, methinks, why sprinters have quite large quads is due to the high reps and high speed involved in sprinting. They would have even bigger quad muscles if they stopped sprinting and focused on moderate sets and reps with moderate weights. What is stopping their gains is the relatively high volume of sprinting, just like what impedes powerlifters from having bigger quads is too little volume.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
I'm not making any assertions here.  Just giving everyone insight as I have trained along all types of athletes, including sprinters.  Female sprinters had better lower body development than their male counterparts IMO but the guys were built too. 
Squishy face retard

Royal Lion

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1347
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #157 on: June 19, 2009, 06:52:48 PM »
  Your problem is that you've been getting owned by me for 7 pages now, and you still think that you're right. It is incredible how someone as stupid as you thinks that he can debate someone intelligent. I have dismissed and destroyed all the stupid examples you brought up and have defended my theory as logically consistent. Your stupidity is only surpassed by your pride. Oh wait, that's impossible. ;D

SUCKMYMUSCLE
Haha - yes ISUCKMUSCLE you own everyone out there.  You are that great!  For 7 pages you have claimed what: that Dorian is a high volume trainer, that sprinters train more like bodybuilders than powerlifters despite the fact that they do low reps and most of the same moves; you have had to add in their running reps to their weight training reps to reach your high volume theory; you claim that 6 sets for arms over 21 days is high volume; you claim all powerlifters have less mass than bodybuilders;you claim that sprinters have larger quads than powerlifters; you assert arguments that I have not made, e.g. sprinters are as muscular as bodybuilders, low volume = one set to failure, etc., and then refute them in a sorry ass attempt to make yourself look good.

You are fucking pathetic.  I am new on this board; apparently most on here have dealt with your stupidity before - you have made quite the reputation for yourself on here.  Keep it up buddy!  Keep telling yourself just how great you are....you'll feel better, really.  :-*  

Marty Champions

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 36515
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #158 on: June 19, 2009, 06:53:43 PM »
thats not what he said. he said guys who are sprinters would have bigger quads if they stopped sprinting and running all the time and just stuck to weight training.

hes saying then weight training "magically" builds bigger quads than sprinting, this is a fallacy. tell me why i am wrong?

there is no physiological possibility for this to be true when both activities are done to full capacity
A

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #159 on: June 19, 2009, 07:18:31 PM »
Haha - yes ISUCKMUSCLE you own everyone out there.  You are that great!  For 7 pages you have claimed what: that Dorian is a high volume trainer, that sprinters train more like bodybuilders than powerlifters despite the fact that they do low reps and most of the same moves;

  Do sprinters do only weigt training, dumbass? The last time I checked, they do, you know, sprinting, which involves running for hundreds of feet several times over. That is a hell of a lot more volume than what powerlifters do, at least for quads, although not as much as what marathon trainers do.

Quote
you have had to add in their running reps to their weight training reps to reach your high volume theory;

  Sigh...they do a lot of running. More in fact than weight training. How can you attribute their quad development to the weight training? Your example is stupid regardless because neither powerlifters nor sprinters have quads as massive as bodybuilders, which means that the training they do doesen't work for mass like the one bodybuilders do. Your argument is stupid. The end.

Quote
you claim that 6 sets for arms over 21 days is high volume;

  It is not one-set-to-failure protocol, nor is it what powerlifters do, so how can you use this as an example of power training? How is doing 3 sets of 8 reps with 1 minute intervals between them strengh training, retard? The poster didn't specify how many reps he does per set nor how much he rests between sets, but even if he does 2-3 reps per set and rests 6 minutes between sets, a total of 6 sets in 3 weeks for a tiny bodypart like arms would be defined as high volume by most strengh athletes and HIT advocates, which are the ones that train in the way I am asserting that doesen't result in mass. You haven't proven shit. As usual.

Quote
you claim all powerlifters have less mass than bodybuilders;

  They do have less, except strengh athletes that also train a lot like bodybuilders, like Mariusz. Again, dumb shit, give me one example of a powerlifter who trains only on power movements doing doubles and triples who's as big or bigger than a pro bodybuilder. C'mon, dumbass, I'm waiting. ;)

Quote
you claim that sprinters have larger quads than powerlifters;

  You claim sprinters have larger quads than bodybuilders. And you use athletes who train with low volume and who have less muscle mass than bodybuilders an examples that strengh training work for mass. You are stupid. ;)

Quote
you assert arguments that I have not made, e.g. sprinters are as muscular as bodybuilders,

  Then why did you bring them up to prove that low volume works better for mass, dumbass? See what I am dealing with? ;)

Quote
low volume = one set to failure, etc.,

  Ok, define low volume then, dipshit. I'm waiting. I'm sorry, but doing 6 sets for a small bodypart like arms would be defined as high volume by powerlifting coaches as well as guys like Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer.

Quote
and then refute them in a sorry ass attempt to make yourself look good.

  I have easily destroyed all your examples and attempts to discredit my theory. Even impartial posters have told you that they agree that I have successully shot down your arguments, and the only reason why you can't see it is because you're dumb.

Quote
You are fucking pathetic.  I am new on this board; apparently most on here have dealt with your stupidity before - you have made quite the reputation for yourself on here.  Keep it up buddy!  Keep telling yourself just how great you are....you'll feel better, really.  :-* 

  You have been owned by everyone you've argued with in your short tenure so far as a member of this board. Keep it up.  ;)

PJim

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3951
  • Strike another match, go start anew
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #160 on: June 19, 2009, 07:42:17 PM »
Just to conclude to clear up confusion. I train once a week; low volume. I train a bodypart once every three weeks; low volume. When I say arms I include shoulders, my bad. So two sets to failure on biceps, nautilus single arm biceps curl and palms up close grip pulldowns performed one after the other. Triceps, overhead French press with dumbbell or machine followed by dips and finally lateral raises straight into seated shoulder press; all in all low volume.

PJim

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3951
  • Strike another match, go start anew
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #161 on: June 19, 2009, 07:46:48 PM »
oh and I do between 4-8 reps to failure most of the time on arms.

Royal Lion

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1347
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #162 on: June 19, 2009, 08:09:45 PM »
You are so caught up on the quads of a sprinter - look at their arms, shoulders, chests, and abs.  Sure, some of this muscle is attributed to sprinting and technique work, but much of it can also be attributed to their weight training and high levels of fast twitch fibers which are further developed by power and olympic lifting.  You make these blanket statements like bodybuilders have more massive quads than powerlifters, etc. -- this is a total generalization.  I guarantee there are powerlifters with larger quads than some bodybuilders. 

Where did I ever claim sprinters have larger quads than bodybuilders?  Jesus, you are desperate - see you are adding arguments that I never made and then trying to disprove them while claiming I am stupid.  Clearly you are stupid.  I have used sprinters as an example of athletes who maintain solid muscle mass while performing lower volume/heavier weight lifting.

Low volume encompasses more protocols than just one working set; for fucksake, training arms for 6 sets over 3 weeks is low volume by just about every standard.  Are you seriously this dense?  That is only 2 sets of arms per week.  How is this high volume? 



 

PJim

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3951
  • Strike another match, go start anew
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #163 on: June 19, 2009, 08:17:43 PM »
I don't even do two sets a week its technically 4 sets every three weeks, 6 counting shoulders.

Royal Lion

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1347
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #164 on: June 19, 2009, 08:21:19 PM »
I don't even do two sets a week its technically 4 sets every three weeks, 6 counting shoulders.
Wouldn't you agree that this is low volume?  ISUCKMUSCLE seems to think this is high volume.

PJim

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3951
  • Strike another match, go start anew
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #165 on: June 19, 2009, 08:27:10 PM »
Wouldn't you agree that this is low volume?  ISUCKMUSCLE seems to think this is high volume.

it is by all means the lowest I could get away with to fit around my goal of  strength and size gains. I'll skip training if I'm not feeling up to it  so arms might not get trained till 6 weeks after sometimes. That very photo was taken after a 8 week rest from training from a stubborn lung infection.

Royal Lion

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1347
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #166 on: June 19, 2009, 08:33:55 PM »

it is by all means the lowest I could get away with to fit around my goal of  strength and size gains. I'll skip training if I'm not feeling up to it  so arms might not get trained till 6 weeks after sometimes. That very photo was taken after a 8 week rest from training from a stubborn lung infection.
Right on.  Sounds like you are in tune with how your body responds and can guage accordingly. 

PJim

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3951
  • Strike another match, go start anew
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #167 on: June 19, 2009, 08:47:44 PM »
Right on.  Sounds like you are in tune with how your body responds and can guage accordingly. 
well I try. I just think that training is more of a stress more than anything, it should be suffered unoften and dealt with the mentality of time being the healer.

Viking11

  • Competitors
  • Getbig IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 2002
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #168 on: June 19, 2009, 09:28:21 PM »
I hope all my competitors immediatelly train with high volume. Ok, I'm just having fun with this. But some grow better with one or at most two sets an exercise. Dorian , Mentzer, Mastorakis, Cardillo all were like this. Others, like Arnold, Sergio or Cutler thrived on high volume. Others did better somewhere in the middle. There's a whole constellation of genetic and psychological factors that factor into this. Anything less is an oversimplification.

local hero

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8714
  • mma finance warrior of peace
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #169 on: June 20, 2009, 03:58:04 AM »
dorian is by no means a high volume trainer......... 2 or 3 warm ups and one work set isnt volume


coleman, preist etcetc,,, 20 to 30 sets per bodypart.. even if you counted his warm ups he's still fall eay short

how do u define low volume... walk into a gym and do one set, no warm ups, one cold set with maximum weight?????

Marty Champions

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 36515
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #170 on: June 20, 2009, 04:23:30 AM »
hes saying then weight training "magically" builds bigger quads than sprinting, this is a fallacy. tell me why i am wrong?

there is no physiological possibility for this to be true when both activities are done to full capacity

suckmymuscle answer me this
A

#1 Klaus fan

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9203
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #171 on: June 20, 2009, 04:35:20 AM »
okay, why not do 90-120 sets? Surely you would double your results....

Because I didn't have to.  ;D I achieved my desired volume with those sets. And I'm not crazy. I DO know my limitations fucking well. Better than anyone.  :-\

#1 Klaus fan

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9203
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #172 on: June 20, 2009, 04:42:50 AM »
my point is this; the body does NOT have a limitless recovery capability. At some point you have to start letting the body compensate. ANY volume has a detrimental affect on the recovery capability.

I agree. But volume still works.  :D But you can't go crazy.

Quote from: PJim
It's being able to make strength/size gains with the least time spent actually working out that people should ideally strive for, hell even if its just for their sanity, afterall isn't it counter-productive towards other goals/tasks in your life if you literally live in the gym?

Ok, that's how you look at it, and that's fine. I don't spent any more time training that I feel I have to either. But usually the more advanced you get the more time you have to spent training to see results...

Eisenherz

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1312
  • Uber oder unter?
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #173 on: June 20, 2009, 05:04:17 AM »
the more advanced you get the more time you have to spent training to see results...

Thats not logical.

More advanced=lifting heavier weights, heavier weights=more muscle damage=more time needed for recovery=training has to be reduced (to a certain point of course).


TheAnimal

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2015
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #174 on: June 20, 2009, 05:05:49 AM »
Thats not logical.

More advanced=lifting heavier weights, heavier weights=more muscle damage=more time needed for recovery=training has to be reduced (to a certain point of course).


please provide some peer reviewed literature to support this