GH15 - Questions and Answered and getting called out...

[dustin]

What is it about the tren that makes it toxic to the kidney? Does this pertain to tren only or all other homebrew drugs?

I'm no chemist either so don't quote me on this, but I suspect that it's from the heavy solvents used. PROPERLY made tren isn't bad at all. I have friends that abuse tren and have okay liver values and kidney function. However, so many of the UGLs out there absolutely blast their tren with BA and all that shit for sterility purposes. And that's because they're brewing that shit in a motel bath tub.

I tried some really shitty tren that made me break out in blisters all over. Filtered it and it was better, but still broke out. Got some fina online (pellets and cartridges) and brewed up some tren properly just following some douche bag guide on the internet and I was good to go. It takes a real bonehead to fuck something up as elementary as a tren kit.

Other blends like test/tren/masteron and other UGL "specials" can also be pretty brutal. I have a friend in another province who is an absolute guru. He used to post on the boards years ago and he explained it all to me. I haven't read a study or done much research in a long time but I don't have any reason not to believe him. Most UGL tren = shit. Home brewed tren isn't half as bad. Just goes to show how shitty most UGLs are out there.


When Bill's new book comes out, it's going to expose a lot of fuckers that need to have a bullet buried in their sorry asses.

[suckmymuscle]

[quote author=
Can you lay out for us, getbiggers, the type of AAS cycles where diet matters less ??
I'm from japan GH15 and I admire you!!! we have many bodybuilders here
thank you GH15!
please leave my name out



diet doesnt matter as lkong as protien is high enough when follow products is in blood

trenbolone ace
masteron
testosterone at medium range under 1 gram a week
eq

you can eat whatever you want on those profucts and body fat % will go down the longer youre on them ,,while muscle get thicker,,

the main secret of bodybuilders from mid 90s and on to this day is the use of trenbolone masteron testosteroen eq and growth hormone with all you can eat diet ,,thats why they also look like shit if they ate clean they woudl have better lines,,but to be big and ripped and dry with all you can eat diet of whatever you feel like you need trenbolne in it and masteron in it with tesosteroen and eq as a base


growth hormone  for competetive bodybuilder at higher levels a must ofcourse

mj15 approved

  Shut                   
                              the
                                           fuck
                                                       up!!!
SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NarcissisticDeity]

  Shut                   
                              the
                                           fuck
                                                       up!!!
SUCKMYMUSCLE

As usual great post !! 

[aliamini]

I'm no chemist either so don't quote me on this, but I suspect that it's from the heavy solvents used. PROPERLY made tren isn't bad at all. I have friends that abuse tren and have okay liver values and kidney function. However, so many of the UGLs out there absolutely blast their tren with BA and all that shit for sterility purposes. And that's because they're brewing that shit in a motel bath tub.

I tried some really shitty tren that made me break out in blisters all over. Filtered it and it was better, but still broke out. Got some fina online (pellets and cartridges) and brewed up some tren properly just following some douche bag guide on the internet and I was good to go. It takes a real bonehead to fuck something up as elementary as a tren kit.

Other blends like test/tren/masteron and other UGL "specials" can also be pretty brutal. I have a friend in another province who is an absolute guru. He used to post on the boards years ago and he explained it all to me. I haven't read a study or done much research in a long time but I don't have any reason not to believe him. Most UGL tren = shit. Home brewed tren isn't half as bad. Just goes to show how shitty most UGLs are out there.


When Bill's new book comes out, it's going to expose a lot of fuckers that need to have a bullet buried in their sorry asses.

Making tren isnt a big deal … that is y I said I would rather make mine cause I can make sure it will b good stuff … and no I don’t make mine … nor do I sell steroids …

I am not on a lot of tren … I am not using anything at all … nor have I lifted since mid April … but hey look at me i am still smiling 

The problem is when someone comes here and just wants to argue for the sake of arguing … what I said was it is kidney toxic … it doesn’t mean it will melt ur kidney as soon as u use it … as I said the side effect factor is related to genetics and how your body can handle a certain compound … yes there are people who stay on it for very long time and there are people who get problems at low doses and for a short period of time … I had people stopping tren cause there nuts hurt … now that is not so common but there every one response differently to each drug

Yes what I said is when u get dark urine (on same amount of drinking water daily), ur kidney hurts & get blood cells in ur urine (even if it is not visible) then it is –without having an MBBS- targeting the kidney … and some even get kidney pain because of that

What I said was advising some one to be on tren for “as long as they want” is risky and dangerous … staying 8-10 weeks is not a big deal at all … I had people on it for much longer time … but u cant apply that to everyone …

Explaining how something is toxic is nothing that u can put on paper


Bills new book will talk about purity and contamination in the UG labs products … and as I said that is what plays a big role in the quality of gains these days … as u cant trust labels

As for BA … some speculate that that is the reason of the cough … but a lot of other drugs do use BA as well …. So it could be the combination of tren + BA

Even though I never had a cough issue with human grade products … again depends on what u define as human grade … as having something that is made in Thailand but says made in Italy or uses a name of a reputed brand but is made in a china doesn’t define it as human if it says so …

There are a lot of bodybuilders who stay on test all year around … nothing happens to them … but I never recommended that … as I said in one of my radio shows … I have a standard for what I use (how much & how long) and I follow as I see fit … now in some unorthodox cases taking drastic measures is a must … aging with caution … that is y non of the people I trained ever got sick or fainted back stage

[Spike]

the cough is caused from when you nick a vein and the tren has time to travel to your lungs via your bloodstream and aromatizes causing bronchial irritation/cough

[Atlantic]

Key word to avoid this is "Aspirate"

[PANDAEMONIUM]

Key word to avoid this is "Aspirate"

I really don't see how your opinion is relevant.

[Atlantic]

he says inject in a vein
can u really do that and live to tell??

[TechnoViking]

Don’t compare COX blockers and NSAIDs to this protocol as they are not curing medication … they only make u not feel the pain (but it is there … i.e the problem is there) … anti biotic are different as well … some are taken only half a tab once, some for 5 days 2 caps, some for a week 3 caps a day, some for months, some once IM and some IV … sometimes once and some numerous times … each medication is taken differently but what I am saying is about the medication that are given on a long period of time … more than 4weeks … and that is medically speaking … not what people do … cause asthma medication was not designed for fat burning nor were diuretics for dropping weight

You probably never used tren or know anything abt it … the amount of time u can be on it is based on a lot of variables … yes people can stay on it for very long time … but u can never know unless u try … so is it worth the trying … maybe yes for bbers as they are in need of glory to prove to them selves that they exist … but thinking that u don’t have a problem before using tren is deferent than actually not having a problem … as tren can worsen these cases and definitely long period of using it can be a big factor is a problem is there to begin with without the person knowing

Once u know how tren is made u will understand that … the sides of tren are dark urine elevated kidney enzymes, pain in the kidney, blood cells in urine (even if not visible to the naked eye) and at extreme cases u piss blood … so I wonder how it effects the kidney  … if u have tried it you would have understand what I am saying

As for the purity … once you know how it is made u will understand and the process of making it is a bit scary once u know that they are made in underground labs … as the shipment of the material before making it, the cleanliness of the whole facility and the filtering process plays a big role in that.  And if u don’t c Sediment in the bottle is doesn’t mean it is not there

And just for the record coffee filter in a funnel is not the right way to go with it ...  Hell … sometimes I think of making my own tren …at least I can do it in a lab with proper clean environment and proper sterile equipments.

And one more thing why do u think bodybuilders are getting pneumonia these day … and when u get tren coughs … what actually happens to your lungs??? These are the things that bodybuilders don’t pay attention to nor know what hit them … they just inject with knowing what it actually is or what it might do on the long term


DX

[TechnoViking]

Don’t compare COX blockers and NSAIDs to this protocol as they are not curing medication … they only make u not feel the pain (but it is there … i.e the problem is there) … anti biotic are different as well … some are taken only half a tab once, some for 5 days 2 caps, some for a week 3 caps a day, some for months, some once IM and some IV … sometimes once and some numerous times … each medication is taken differently but what I am saying is about the medication that are given on a long period of time … more than 4weeks … and that is medically speaking … not what people do … cause asthma medication was not designed for fat burning nor were diuretics for dropping weight

You probably never used tren or know anything abt it … the amount of time u can be on it is based on a lot of variables … yes people can stay on it for very long time … but u can never know unless u try … so is it worth the trying … maybe yes for bbers as they are in need of glory to prove to them selves that they exist … but thinking that u don’t have a problem before using tren is deferent than actually not having a problem … as tren can worsen these cases and definitely long period of using it can be a big factor is a problem is there to begin with without the person knowing

Once u know how tren is made u will understand that … the sides of tren are dark urine elevated kidney enzymes, pain in the kidney, blood cells in urine (even if not visible to the naked eye) and at extreme cases u piss blood … so I wonder how it effects the kidney  … if u have tried it you would have understand what I am saying

As for the purity … once you know how it is made u will understand and the process of making it is a bit scary once u know that they are made in underground labs … as the shipment of the material before making it, the cleanliness of the whole facility and the filtering process plays a big role in that.  And if u don’t c Sediment in the bottle is doesn’t mean it is not there

And just for the record coffee filter in a funnel is not the right way to go with it ...  Hell … sometimes I think of making my own tren …at least I can do it in a lab with proper clean environment and proper sterile equipments.

And one more thing why do u think bodybuilders are getting pneumonia these day … and when u get tren coughs … what actually happens to your lungs??? These are the things that bodybuilders don’t pay attention to nor know what hit them … they just inject with knowing what it actually is or what it might do on the long term


DX

Did you say COCK BLOCKERS?

[Van_Bilderass]

Explaining how something is toxic is nothing that u can put on paper

You could if you knew.

Is it the solvents, is it the impurities in the powders, is it the tren itself? Just say it, you don't know. We know how orals cause liver problems but no one has explained how tren or UG tren products mess with your kidneys.

Again, I'm not saying people don't have problems with it but the why is a question mark still.

IMO if it causes you to piss blood after a few weeks it shouldn't be used at all, ever. Way, way too toxic.

[Van_Bilderass]

I suspect that it's from the heavy solvents used. PROPERLY made tren isn't bad at all.

Does tren require more solvents than other hormones? If it's the solvents then most UG products should cause the same problems. From my understanding most UG products contain a lot of solvents, especially since many are dosed so heavy.

[Van_Bilderass]

the cough is caused from when you nick a vein and the tren has time to travel to your lungs via your bloodstream and aromatizes causing bronchial irritation/cough

Yes, pulmonary microembolism is the proposed cause, but what does aromatization have to do with it?

Tolerability of intramuscular injections of testosterone ester in oil vehicle.
Mackey MA, Conway AJ, Handelsman DJ.

Andrology Unit, Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, Sydney NSW, Australia.

We undertook a prospective survey of the tolerability of deep i.m. injections of testosterone enanthate in a castor oil vehicle, the most widely used form of androgen replacement therapy. Over a period of 8 months, 26 men received 551 weekly injections into the gluteal, deltoid or thigh muscle and side-effects were recorded immediately and 1 week after each injection by the same nurse using a standardized questionnaire. Most injections caused no complaints [389/551, 70.6% (95% confidence interval 66.6-74.4%)] but minor local side-effects, mostly pain and bleeding, were common [162/551, 29.4% (25.6-33.4%)]; no serious side-effects were observed. Considering all side-effects, the gluteal site had fewer complaints and was less prone to bleeding but was painful more often than deltoid or thigh injection sites. The laterality of injection at any site had no significant effect on side-effects. The only systemic side-effect was episodes of sudden-onset, non-productive cough associated with faintness following eight injections [1.5% (0.6-2.9%)] which we speculate may have been due to pulmonary oil microembolism. We conclude that, when administered by an experienced nurse, deep i.m. injection of testosterone enanthate in a castor oil vehicle is generally safe and well tolerated but causes relatively frequent minor side-effects, including pain and bleeding. An improved depot form of testosterone would be highly desirable for androgen replacement therapy and hormonal male contraception.

[no one]

I really don't see how your opinion is relevant.

LMAO!

[dustin]

Does tren require more solvents than other hormones? If it's the solvents then most UG products should cause the same problems. From my understanding most UG products contain a lot of solvents, especially since many are dosed so heavy.

Well because of the crude extraction methods and lack of care taken by most UGLs, they just add a lot more BA and use shitty, irritating solvents. I've also read something to do with tren and prostaglandins leading to the dreaded "tren" cough. It has nothing to do with nicking veins. Everyone nicks veins with other shit and nothing happens. Hell, some of us have injected IN a vein and while you cough, it's nothing like a tren induced cough.

I've come close to getting tren cough and get a mechanical taste emanating from my lungs and lingerings in the back of my throat and tongue. I think there's something in the tren that does it. Perhaps it has a synergy with the BA because I noticed the more BA, the more that happens. But I've shot other stuff with BA and had no weird tren cough/irritation - although I did break out in hives.


Your guess is really as good as mine. I'll still run some UGL tren but when given the opportunity, I'd rather brew some up with some friends and get 5 times the amount for the same money. I'm lacking some of the equipment, filters and sterile vials and whatnot so I can't brew any for my up and coming cycle. I don't go longer than 8 weeks though due to prolactin concerns. I still bang like a champ but I really need to bang back the AIs to keep my chest from puffing up. I'm hoping to get my glands removed so I don't have to deal with this shit anymore. Don't think I'll need lipo though. It's not visible unless I'm on estrogenic steroids with a ton of water retention thankfully. Still a concern in the back of my mind though.

[tbombz]

it seems as if aliamini is under the impression that the only way to make tren is to use vet pellets...

aliamini how do the vet companies make the pellets then? do they buy pellets from another manufcturer and extract thos pellets then use that raw tren t make their own pellets?

but then.. where did that other manufacturer get their pellets           a mystery as mysterious as the origins of the cosmo's..   

 

[Van_Bilderass]

Alright, so I asked William Llewellyn about the tren/kidney connection and this is what he says:

Trenbolone has been studied very minimally in humans, so we don't have a definite answer to point to. I speculate that the urine discoloration is due to the rust colored (oxidized) metabolites of trenbolone. This compound seems to oxidize to a dark rust color very easily, even under refrigeration. The discolored urine tends to happen often, with no signs of renal toxicity. Also, trenbolone acetate is still widely used in animals for carcass weight increase. There seems to be no mention of kidney toxicity in animals, or with the few historical human trenbolone preparations. If there were some issues, I think it would TA would have been replaced with other safer medications long ago. One animal has a lot of meat, and is worth a lot of money.

I think this fact should put it into perspective: We have this debate constantly. How often, however, do we hear of a bodybuilder with actual kidney damage? .Issues with the kidneys are uncommon. When they do appear, they tend to be related to excess muscle damage (rhabdomyolysis), severe liver toxicity, or high blood pressure, not trenbolone

Trenbolone is somewhat liver toxic. A steroid does not have to be methylated to impart toxicity. It just needs to resist hepatic breakdown enough to exhibit a substantial degree of activity in the liver.

Primobolan, for example, has even raised liver enzymes in some studies.

http://www.bodyofscience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5918

So, he thinks it isn't kidney toxic and what some think is blood in the urine is actually just a metabolite of tren coloring the urine. He thinks it can be somewhat liver toxic though.

aliamini, feel free to comment.

[aliamini]

I always feel free to comment

Billy gathered info from all around … but he still a lot of the things that he says are based on his personal opinion … if he thinks it is not kidney toxic it doesn’t make it so ... if the urine color changes as the color of the oil it doesn’t mean that is the reason … as they are different shades of Yellow … where in urine it is changed according the amount of water and concentration of toxins … it is not an oral Vitamin B …


Tren as a substance might and should not have any effect of the kidney (unless from a hypertension stand point) … but the price of it these days indicates how it is made … as it is price is very close to test … where the process of making it is costs much more … it is not as cheap as Test or Deca … but the price indicates that every one is using the pellet dissolving protocol …

Even though tren is very similar to nandrolone … it is not made is the same process as nandrolone is driveded from Test (other wise it would have cost 4 times more than Test) … the sediments in the solution is what actually pases the kidney … and as I told u b4 … if u take Oxymetholone for 5 moths without any Problem or elevated Liver Enzymes … it doesn’t make it non-liver toxic … it all ends up in the subject genetics and how his body reacts to certain substances … due to the lack of test subjects & interest in the medical community in this regards you cant find evidence about it … but knowing hat you have sediments, dark urine and kidney pain in some subjects you can know that it is effecting  the kidney even though some can use it for long time without sides.

Liver enzymes metabolites are very similar to Muscle break down metabolites … so when testing for that (especially with he old equipments) you will see an elevation in the liver enzymes even if you are not using any 17AA or any methylated compound.

[LATS]

 pellets are very rarely used for tren compounds now a days.. why would one use pellets when the pharm powder is easily obtained..

[Van_Bilderass]

Billy gathered info from all around … but he still a lot of the things that he says are based on his personal opinion … if he thinks it is not kidney toxic it doesn’t make it so ...

It doesn't make it so for certain but Bill is forming an opinion from all currently available data. You on the other hand have opinions based on fuck all.

I always feel free to comment

 … the sediments in the solution is what actually pases the kidney …

 but knowing hat you have sediments, dark urine and kidney pain in some subjects you can know that it is effecting  the kidney even though some can use it for long time without sides.

1: what is a "sediment" in this case? How can you say this "sediment" passes the kidney and is toxic?

2: "kidney pain" is often muscular in origin. This doesn't mean kidney pain doesn't happen, just that it's often something else. Lots of guys think dbol gives them "kidney pain" and it has nothing to do with the kidneys in most cases.

Everyone is using pellets? That's absolutely ridiculous. The APIs ordered from countries like China are made from American Finaplix pellets? You have got to be kidding me.

This guy is a guru? 

[aliamini]

U don’t know what u r talking abt … you just want to argue … u r a guy who recomands taking 250iu of HCG every week … I don’t know y I am even reasoning with u

what do u think pellets are made and in what form do they mix the pellets with the oil … they are the same thing but different form … but the key is in … pellets are legal and powder are illegal

my opinion are based on fuck!!!  No … my opinion are based on what people face … u r just a gym rat who thinks he know everything cause he read bunch of studies … it is much more to it than that

don’t hate THE GAME if ur a bad player  

and of course ... what was i suppose to expect from a guy with over 6000 posts 

[emn1964]

Kidneys DO NOT have pain nerves.  Let's be clear about that.  The pain is often caused by an inflamation of tissue around the kidney or enlargement of the kidney (from inflamation, disease or tumor) and pressing upon tissue around the kidney that does have pain nerves.

[aliamini]

ask anyone who had Kidney stones and he will tell u what kidney pain means

[emn1964]

ask anyone who had Kidney stones and he will tell u what kidney pain means

that's not a pain in the kidneys themselves.  are you that reckless with people's health that pay you?  or are you just stupid and don't know any better?  or maybe you do know better and don't really care because the idiots PAY YOU for advice and you are more than happy to take advantage of their ignorance.

[aliamini]

i say the facts of what peopel face ... and suddenly evryone is an expert ... wooow


i got teh guts to post my opinions ... and revel who i am


ur just bunch of people who want to argue for no reason … good luck with that