Author Topic: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.  (Read 19024 times)

w8tlftr

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #225 on: July 28, 2009, 03:42:55 PM »
Hi Honey!  :-*  Long time no see. where ya been?

I've been busy.  :-\

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #226 on: July 28, 2009, 04:26:17 PM »


I’ll defend him, too.
At 1:10 he clearly states that, “I don’t know…not having been there…and not seeing all the facts...what role race played in that...”

That’s a very clear self-admission that he was not completely informed about the situation and thus is not qualified or justified in drawing any type of conclusion based on anything other than speculation.
His semantics concede that his accusations regarding Crowley, the Cambridge PD, and their association with racial profiling are merely speculative theories at best.

Exactly! No where in there does he state Gates is correct in his assertion Crowley was a racist, and he prefaces his comments by stating he may have some bias due to his friendship with Gates.  (full commentary starts at 50:50)



He also makes it clear based on the information that has been revealed, that it was just stupid to arrest the guy.
This is just plain common sense. You interrupt and inconvenience a guy in an already agitated state, walk away,
...don't inflame matters worse by arresting him for disorderly conduct. That's just stupid. Don't warn the guy to calm down, ...he doesn't have to calm down. He's in his own home, he has every right to be angry, ...even if his anger is the result of a fictitious klansman conjured in his own mind. Walk away, and let him go back inside his house and stew. Let him smash his dishes and punch the walls if he wants... just walk away and leave him alone.

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And I can understand the resentment of the police. Nobody likes accusations of stupidity and racism.
It’s somewhat analogous to locking yourself out of your house and then feeling like a criminal when the police stop by to question why you're breaking into your own home.


There was more than enough stupidity to go around, ...but the buck eventually stops with the one with the authority to make the arrest.
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24KT

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #227 on: July 28, 2009, 04:28:25 PM »
I've been busy.  :-\

Too busy to come out to play with me?  :'(
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Montague

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #228 on: July 28, 2009, 05:30:58 PM »
Exactly! No where in there does he state Gates is correct in his assertion Crowley was a racist, and he prefaces his comments by stating he may have some bias due to his friendship with Gates.  (full commentary starts at 50:50)



He also makes it clear based on the information that has been revealed, that it was just stupid to arrest the guy.
This is just plain common sense. You interrupt and inconvenience a guy in an already agitated state, walk away,
...don't inflame matters worse by arresting him for disorderly conduct. That's just stupid. Don't warn the guy to calm down, ...he doesn't have to calm down. He's in his own home, he has every right to be angry, ...even if his anger is the result of a fictitious klansman conjured in his own mind. Walk away, and let him go back inside his house and stew. Let him smash his dishes and punch the walls if he wants... just walk away and leave him alone.

There was more than enough stupidity to go around, ...but the buck eventually stops with the one with the authority to make the arrest.

Good.
Now I’ll play devil’s advocate.

While not directly attributing racism, O certainly suggests the possibility by insinuating a type of connection between this incident and general instances of LE profiling.

O admitted personal bias.
He admitted he didn’t have nearly all the facts.
He attacked (criticized) the officer involved - later admitting that was erroneous.

Will you still defend his original statements above after those admissions - even after he himself admitted the blunder?


#2:
If Gates gets an apology from Crowley over this beer (that will likely cost me a couple hundred thousand dollars in tax money) do you think Crowley deserves one from Obama and/or Gates as well?
Please explain why or why not.


Similarities:

O admitted personal bias. Police receive call of burglary in process and show up at house expecting to find a burglar. That’s their bias.
O admitted he didn’t have nearly all the facts. Police don’t know for sure who Gates is burglar or other.
O attacked (criticized) the officer involved. Gates is arrested & charged – later dropped.

tu_holmes

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #229 on: July 28, 2009, 07:22:16 PM »
It's because I'm black isn't it?  ;D

Seriously, ...I saw the link. And I completely understand what she is saying.
I don't think you guys are understanding what I'm saying. I'm not commenting on the race aspect.
I'm simply saying ...surely this didn't have to culminate in an arrest. I'm not defending Gates, I'm defending Obama.

No it doesn't have to culminate in an arrest, however you have to be honest and say that Gates didn't have to say the things he did.

He didn't have to make an issue of the situation. Just like the cop didn't.

It took both of them to have the situation escalate to that point.

24KT

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #230 on: July 28, 2009, 08:34:45 PM »
Good.
Now I’ll play devil’s advocate.

While not directly attributing racism, O certainly suggests the possibility by insinuating a type of connection between this incident and general instances of LE profiling.

O admitted personal bias.
He admitted he didn’t have nearly all the facts.
He attacked (criticized) the officer involved - later admitting that was erroneous.

Will you still defend his original statements above after those admissions - even after he himself admitted the blunder?


#2:
If Gates gets an apology from Crowley over this beer (that will likely cost me a couple hundred thousand dollars in tax money) do you think Crowley deserves one from Obama and/or Gates as well?
Please explain why or why not.


Similarities:

O admitted personal bias. Police receive call of burglary in process and show up at house expecting to find a burglar. That’s their bias.
O admitted he didn’t have nearly all the facts. Police don’t know for sure who Gates is burglar or other.
O attacked (criticized) the officer involved. Gates is arrested & charged – later dropped.

I believe we are the sum of our experiences. if we are consistently confronted with racism, ...we will immediately weigh things in light of racism... real or perceived. If I'm poked with a stick every day of my life, ...if you confront me with a stick, ...I may have more of a gut level reaction that someone who has never seen a stick.

1) Gates was inside his own home, ...and is confronted by police ...inside his own home.

All Gates knows at this point is that a police officer shows up in his home (the abode which is supposed to be his castle where he can shut the door and dismiss all the garbage, and discard all the baggage on the outside) and here is a cop accusing him of possibly breaking into the home. Where the fvck does it end, ...certainly not at the threshold of his door.

There will no doubt be, and understandably so, ... a tremendous amount of agitation on Gates' part.

Obama was right to insinuate a connection between this and general instances of LE profiling because there is one. It was evident in Gates reaction. I'm disappointed that an expert in racial profiling was not able to recognize that, and take it into consideration when weighing Gates' response to him. I'm also disappointed that he chose to basically let his ego & testosterone get in the way of a reasoned response to Gates. he should have apologized for the inconvenience caused him, and LEFT! instead, he said "Fvck it, I'm taking you in". it was stupid and unavoidable. Yes, he had authority to do that, ...but it was stupid and insensitive. Just as stupid as if Gates was in his house drinking a can of beer, ...and the police officer called him outside, only to arrest him for being in public with an open container. The whole thing was sparked by the police attending the residence in the first place. upon discovering they were inconveniencing an innocent man, apologize for the inconvenience and walk away.

I know policing is hard work. I know Gates should have been appreciative that neighbours were looking out for him. i know he should have thanked the officer for coming out, but that only happens in a perfect world. policing can often be a thankless job. If you want to be treated like a hero every where you go... he should have been a Marvel character. They are the only ones given a heros welcome every where they go.

I heard the original 911 call, ...and the media has distorted this thing beyond reason. Crowley DID NOT get a call that 2 black men had broken into a residence. The caller said there were two men who were shouldering a door to get inside a house, ...the caller also identified one of the men as hispanic., ...and even went so far as to suggest that there is a possibility that they may indeed live there.

I don't think Crowley deserves an apology from Obama. It's unfortunate that there is a firestorm breweing, but I don't think he deserves an apology. I think Obama was bang on. I think the police are very hurt and feel insulted because they believe that Obama's comments on the matter somehow validate Gates' accusations of racism, ...but I do not believe they do. I think Obama's comments were outspoken and blunt, ...but sometimes you have to be blunt. The decision to arrest Gates imo was just plain stupid given the context of how the situation unfolded. Once it was ascertained he was in his own home, LEAVE! Obama has nothing to apologize for... the media on the otherhand... they owe the entire public an apology due to the factual errors they keep reporting, and the way they are blowing this up.

However, as I said before, ...this is a looking like another slam dunk for Obama, because coming out on the other side of this... people will finally, hopefully, start to have a real dialogue that addresses the perception gap and shorten the divide so prevalent in your country.
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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #231 on: July 28, 2009, 08:43:47 PM »
No it doesn't have to culminate in an arrest, however you have to be honest and say that Gates didn't have to say the things he did.

Of course he didn't have to say the things he did, ...but being a dick isn't an arrestable offense.

Quote
He didn't have to make an issue of the situation. Just like the cop didn't.

Why not? He's in his own home minding his own business and he's investigated for entering his own home?
Of course he's annoyed, pissed off, and agitated. When ascertained he's the lawful occupant... GET OUT!
What did Crowley expect... for Gates to offer him tea & biscuits?! Apologize for the inconvenience, and LEAVE, muttering under your breath what an ungrateful SOB he was, ...don't pull an innocent man out of his own home and arrest him. That was just plain stupid.

Quote
It took both of them to have the situation escalate to that point.

No doubt it took both of them for the situation to escalate, ...however, one of them is supposed to be trained in diffusing tensions, not exascerbating them. they had a dick swinging contest and the cop made a stupid decision to arrest Gates.

This Canadian stands by your President, ...even if you will not.  :)
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Cap

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #232 on: July 28, 2009, 08:47:28 PM »
Jag, my understanding is that when Harvard Police arrived, Sgt. Crowley was going to leave and then Gates began his tirade.  Obviously if he could articulate it in his report then he was in the right or the department and his fellow officers wouldn't have supported him.
Squishy face retard

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #233 on: July 28, 2009, 08:51:26 PM »
Jag, my understanding is that when Harvard Police arrived, Sgt. Crowley was going to leave and then Gates began his tirade.  Obviously if he could articulate it in his report then he was in the right or the department and his fellow officers wouldn't have supported him.

Then he should have just kept on going.... choosing to arrest him was stupid.
It simply added injury to the insult.
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Cap

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #234 on: July 28, 2009, 09:02:09 PM »
Then he should have just kept on going.... choosing to arrest him was stupid.
It simply added injury to the insult.
Contrary to popular belief you can't insult a police officer with impunity.  There are actual limits to it.  I would encourage all to do a little research on the subject.

The idea that Sgt. Crowley is racist is most likely wrong based on what has been reported and if you hear the transcript of the 911 call, the Sgt. responded to a "person" possibly breaking in who "might" be Latino.  He didn't know until he got there.  Asking for a suspect description is normal. 
Squishy face retard

Kazan

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #235 on: July 28, 2009, 09:11:23 PM »
Now back to the original topic, what did Obama do when asked the question? He chose a side, by calling the police stupid, intentional or not, he implied that the cop was wrong. And another question begs to be answered, why is the POTUS getting involved in this?  Lets have a beer at the white house, OK another fucking stupid move to turn this into more of a circus. Someone please explain what is so important about Gates that he garners all this attention from POTUS on down to the press? WTF is wrong with this country, there are alot more important things going on, but lets dwell on some guy who thinks he got the shit end of the stick.

If Gates was to go off on your average citizen like he did the cop, he would have gotten 7 shades of shit knocked out of him. I would say he is lucky he simply got arrested.
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24KT

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #236 on: July 28, 2009, 10:14:04 PM »
Contrary to popular belief you can't insult a police officer with impunity.  There are actual limits to it.  I would encourage all to do a little research on the subject.

The idea that Sgt. Crowley is racist is most likely wrong based on what has been reported and if you hear the transcript of the 911 call, the Sgt. responded to a "person" possibly breaking in who "might" be Latino.  He didn't know until he got there.  Asking for a suspect description is normal. 

Nobody said asking for a suspect description was not normal. I'm saying that once the Crowley ascertained that Gates was the lawful occupant, he should have simply left PERIOD! He had the authority to make an arrest, and he exercised it to make a stupid arrest, making this incident much more than it needed to be. that is why it was stupid. as for the 911 transcripts... even better... here's the actual 911 call to the Cambridge Police Dept.



Gates was pissed off and agitated, ...as was his right to be. Those officers disturbed his peace... in his own home.
He didn't like the way he was spoken to, so he decided he was going to assert his authority over an innocent man after pissing him off to begin with. That's why it was a stupid arrest, and I stand by the President's assessment.
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24KT

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #237 on: July 28, 2009, 10:24:07 PM »
Now back to the original topic, what did Obama do when asked the question? He chose a side, by calling the police stupid, intentional or not, he implied that the cop was wrong.

The cop was wrong.

Quote
And another question begs to be answered, why is the POTUS getting involved in this? 

Because he was asked to comment on it, ...and he did. Would you rather have a President who runs and hides?

Quote
Lets have a beer at the white house, OK another fucking stupid move to turn this into more of a circus. Someone please explain what is so important about Gates that he garners all this attention from POTUS on down to the press? WTF is wrong with this country, there are alot more important things going on, but lets dwell on some guy who thinks he got the shit end of the stick.

A golden opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade, and perhaps finally address some long overdue issues that need to be addressed in your society. This is more than Gates or Crowley. There is an issue that America has long ducked & skirted around to the detriment of all involved. Only when you work through the issues of race in America will you be able to move forward, ...until then, ...you'll still be stuck in the same old holding patterns.

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Kazan

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #238 on: July 29, 2009, 07:56:04 AM »
The cop was wrong.

And you have some inside information that no one else is aware of? See you are the reason why libs piss me off, you don't know all the facts, but the cop is automatically wrong.

Quote
Because he was asked to comment on it, ...and he did. Would you rather have a President who runs and hides?

It's called using common sense, when he got the point where he said I don't know all the facts, that should have been the end of his answer. Besides the POTUS never gives a strait answer on anything, he is asked a question and either redirects into something else or rambles on for 5 minutes and says nothing and by the time he's done you forgot what the fucking question was in the first place.

Quote
A golden opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade, and perhaps finally address some long overdue issues that need to be addressed in your society. This is more than Gates or Crowley. There is an issue that America has long ducked & skirted around to the detriment of all involved. Only when you work through the issues of race in America will you be able to move forward, ...until then, ...you'll still be stuck in the same old holding patterns.

Your Canadian, have ever even been to the US? You have no problem pointing the finger across the border, but Canada has it's own race issues mostly against the native peoples. Yeah everything has been ducked and skirted, the reason black people are in the state they are in is because they took the hand outs, got lazy and depend on the government for their very existance. You see their is no reason for the man to stick around and take responsiblity for the family anymore, the government has filled that role, and thus destroyed the black family structure. It's you do-gooder libs that have fucked the black man not the "racism" of America, racism is just an excuse to accept failure.

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tu_holmes

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #239 on: July 29, 2009, 08:49:55 AM »
Of course he didn't have to say the things he did, ...but being a dick isn't an arrestable offense.

Why not? He's in his own home minding his own business and he's investigated for entering his own home?
Of course he's annoyed, pissed off, and agitated. When ascertained he's the lawful occupant... GET OUT!
What did Crowley expect... for Gates to offer him tea & biscuits?! Apologize for the inconvenience, and LEAVE, muttering under your breath what an ungrateful SOB he was, ...don't pull an innocent man out of his own home and arrest him. That was just plain stupid.

No doubt it took both of them for the situation to escalate, ...however, one of them is supposed to be trained in diffusing tensions, not exascerbating them. they had a dick swinging contest and the cop made a stupid decision to arrest Gates.

This Canadian stands by your President, ...even if you will not.  :)

I don't recall anyone pulling Gates out of his house... The facts as they've presented show just the opposite. He went outside of his own free will.

Yes, he's investigated because a call was placed... Had he, as any reasonable person done, said, "Oh, Hello Officer, I'm the owner of this house, and here's my ID to prove it. Thanks for coming by and checking."

Then he wouldn't have had this issue in the first place... I guess the cop could have just ignored the call and let whomever it was, just have free run, and then had it not been Gates, had his house completely ransacked... That would have avoided it as well.

If I'm the Cambridge police department, the next time I get a call about his address... I'm a little busy and take a little longer to get there.

Montague

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #240 on: July 29, 2009, 10:24:45 AM »
That's why it was a stupid arrest, and I stand by the President's assessment.

But even the president later conceded it was a mistake to say what he did.
Whether or not he believes it is debatable, but he publicly admitted to an error – his error.

When one makes a mistake (as O admittingly did) is apologizing not the civilized thing to do?

Do you also stand by the president's own personal admission of his mistake?


This is why everyone is so hot:
O admitted to not having the facts, but he “knew” the cop was wrong “stupid.”

Perhaps this is “reverse” discrimination…
Did O know Crowley was white?
Is that why O immediately assumed Crowley was wrong – because it was a white officer arresting a black man?
Surely, there can be no other explanation?


andreisdaman

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #241 on: July 29, 2009, 04:06:44 PM »
Then he should have just kept on going.... choosing to arrest him was stupid.
It simply added injury to the insult.

YEP

headhuntersix

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #242 on: July 29, 2009, 04:19:42 PM »
The cop was wrong.

Because he was asked to comment on it, ...and he did. Would you rather have a President who runs and hides?

A golden opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade, and perhaps finally address some long overdue issues that need to be addressed in your society. This is more than Gates or Crowley. There is an issue that America has long ducked & skirted around to the detriment of all involved. Only when you work through the issues of race in America will you be able to move forward, ...until then, ...you'll still be stuck in the same old holding patterns.




Ur an idiot jag. Obama should never in a million years commented on this, especially without any facts at his disposal. He ran and hid on Iran when it was plain what was going on but some black professor gets arrested and Barry assumes he knows what really happened and spouts bullshit. The fact Gates has a history of this crap should not go unnoted either.
L

andreisdaman

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #243 on: July 29, 2009, 04:24:23 PM »

Ur an idiot jag. Obama should never in a million years commented on this, especially without any facts at his disposal. He ran and hid on Iran when it was plain what was going on but some black professor gets arrested and Barry assumes he knows what really happened and spouts bullshit. The fact Gates has a history of this crap should not go unnoted either.



He's the president..he can comment on whatever takes place in the 50 states..if you take a shit he can comment on it if he wants to

tonymctones

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #244 on: July 29, 2009, 04:29:43 PM »
the cop was not wrong it was well within his right to arrest gates, was it the smartest move no it was not.

headhuntersix

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #245 on: July 29, 2009, 04:31:33 PM »
No...no he can't. He didn't have the facts. Thats not how it works. When ur in a position where what u say can be distorted, misconstrued or attacked, u watch what u say. Barry understands this but his true feelings, defending a friend etc, came out. Wars start for things like this, everything Biden has done and Hil has had to cleaned up are a great example. Barry didn't say a friggen thing about people dying in Iran, but shot his mouth off for what he thought wouldn;t matter to anybody. Unfortunately, for Barry,  the cops were doing the right thing. After making mistake one, he should have immediatly come out with an apology, after all he apologizes for America all the time. Instead he let it go on and fester until we have this beer/photo op thing.  
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andreisdaman

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #246 on: July 29, 2009, 04:32:52 PM »
the cop was not wrong it was well within his right to arrest gates, was it the smartest move no it was not.


A cop is always "well within hs rights" to arrest anyone, anytime....but it was a stupid move

headhuntersix

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #247 on: July 29, 2009, 04:35:27 PM »
Why, the guy was spouting off, and the cops had no idea what else he might do. They didn't beat him and he was released. Gates let this get waaaaay out of control and it proceeded to its logical conclusion.
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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #248 on: July 29, 2009, 04:44:32 PM »


He's the president..he can comment on whatever takes place in the 50 states..if you take a shit he can comment on it if he wants to

Yes he can comment, but the question is whether he should.  I still have a problem with the cop arresting the guy and I think it was "stupid" to do so, but after listening to some of the talking heads I now think Obama should have had "no comment."  His comments could have affected the attempt by the state of Massachusetts to prosecute Gates, any civil suits filed by Gates or Crowley, etc. 

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Re: Police Union condemns Obama over "stupid" comments.
« Reply #249 on: July 29, 2009, 06:13:53 PM »


He's the president..he can comment on whatever takes place in the 50 states...

We all can.
That's freedom of speech included in the US Constitution.
I think we still go by that here...

But you’re right; he can say whatever he wants.
That doesn't make the statements right, intelligent, or justified.

Both O & the police have admitted to making mistakes in this.
Why would anyone believe that Crowley is the only one who owes an apology?
 ???