Questions for liberals on health care bill

[tonymctones]

What was with all the talk about wanting bi partisanship when nothing the reps have proposed has been passed?

obama says that everyone agrees with 80% of the bill on both sides

but the dems have done nothing but shoot down proposal after proposal by reps and continue to push shit they know reps dont want.

wheres the bi partisanship obama and others said they were looking for?

[Al Doggity]

dems have done nothing but shoot down proposal after proposal by reps and continue to push shit they know reps dont want.

Quoted for" irony.

"Bipartisanship"  doesn't mean "unconditionally going along with the opposing party".

[Soul Crusher]

Quoted for" irony.

"Bipartisanship"  doesn't mean "unconditionally going along with the opposing party".

Exactly - F.U.B.O!

[tonymctones]

Quoted for" irony.

"Bipartisanship"  doesn't mean "unconditionally going along with the opposing party".

agreed it means compromising

what has the left compromised on doggity?

they have shot down every thing proposed by the reps that I know of and still refuse to give up on the things the reps dont want.

Wheres the compromise?

[Al Doggity]

agreed it means compromising

what has the left compromised on doggity?

they have shot down every thing proposed by the reps that I know of and still refuse to give up on the things the reps dont want.

Wheres the compromise?

Oh, please. The republicans have consistently tacked on ridiculous measures that they know wouldn't have passed. Hatch's abortion amendment was nothing but political grandstanding.

[tonymctones]

Oh, please. The republicans have consistently tacked on ridiculous measures that they know wouldn't have passed. Hatch's abortion amendment was nothing but political grandstanding.

Not at all please tell me why hatch's ammendment has no legitmacy?

also why providing stronger language to protect doctors from performing abortions in the case that it becomes funded by tax dollars? which wouldnt be needed if they passed the hatch ammendment

also why providing language that requires government photo id for ppl making claims isnt legitimate?

[tonymctones]

oh ya why they continue to push the public option even though they know the reps dont want it?

also what exactly have the dems compromised on in the health care bills?

[Al Doggity]

Not at all please tell me why hatch's ammendment has no legitmacy?

also why providing stronger language to protect doctors from performing abortions in the case that it becomes funded by tax dollars? which wouldnt be needed if they passed the hatch ammendment

also why providing language that requires government photo id for ppl making claims isnt legitimate?

The government id thing, as you are well aware, is a backdoor way of preventing illegal immigrants to get healthcare. However, the truth of the matter is that there is a pretty sizable percentage of the underclass that don't have state ids.

Hatch's bill was overreaching. It was meant to  have an effect beyond current law- he essentially stated that that was its purpose. If you are staunchly anti-abortion, then that works for you. But if you are not, like the majority of democrats aren't , then don't expect that measure to be considered part of a compromise. 

[Al Doggity]

oh ya why they continue to push the public option even though they know the reps dont want it?

also what exactly have the dems compromised on in the health care bills?

The public option was the biggest part of the bill, so of course they will keep pushing it

The second part of this is ridiculous. There have been so many different drafts and proposals- compromise not just with republicans, but among democrats- that , just really.

[Soul Crusher]

The public option was the biggest part of the bill, so of course they will keep pushing it

The second part of this is ridiculous. There have been so many different drafts and proposals- compromise not just with republicans, but among democrats- that , just really.

Al - read my thread about the middle class tax hike I posted today. 

The reason the "public option" has gone nowhere is because Obama has boxed himself in with his own lies on the subject. 

For such a "brilliant, transformational" person, Obama shot himself in the foot on this by simply telling lies he thought us dumb rabble in middle America would not find out. 

The math does not add up.   

[Al Doggity]

Al - read my thread about the middle class tax hike I posted today. 

The reason the "public option" has gone nowhere is because Obama has boxed himself in with his own lies on the subject. 

For such a "brilliant, transformational" person, Obama shot himself in the foot on this by simply telling lies he thought us dumb rabble in middle America would not find out. 

The math does not add up.   

The reason the public option has gone nowhere is because big insurance orchestrated one of the most successful scare campaigns in the history of modern American politics.

[tonymctones]

The government id thing, as you are well aware, is a backdoor way of preventing illegal immigrants to get healthcare. However, the truth of the matter is that there is a pretty sizable percentage of the underclass that don't have state ids.

Hatch's bill was overreaching. It was meant to  have an effect beyond current law- he essentially stated that that was its purpose. If you are staunchly anti-abortion, then that works for you. But if you are not, like the majority of democrats aren't , then don't expect that measure to be considered part of a compromise. 

are these id's readily available to them? yes they are, would this help cut down on providing health care to illegal immigrants yes it would...seems very reasonable so why no compromise?

Now the hatch statement I see you point in but it doesnt outlaw abortion simply prohibits tax payer funded abortion. I understand it gets voted on every year but why not put wording in that protects doctors that feel morally obligated to not perform abortions if it becomes legally funded by the govt? I honestly could see a case like that making it to the supreme court so why not just nip it in the bud now?

The public option was the biggest part of the bill, so of course they will keep pushing it

The second part of this is ridiculous. There have been so many different drafts and proposals- compromise not just with republicans, but among democrats- that , just really.

Actually reform is the biggest part of the bill and 80% of that is agreed on...the reps dont want it the dems do yet again no bi partisan compromise, why?

I agree that there likely has been compromise but the dems say there hasnt been so Im curious just name one thing that the dems have compromised on?

[tonymctones]

The reason the public option has gone nowhere is because big insurance orchestrated one of the most successful scare campaigns in the history of modern American politics.

LOL please doggity tell us why a public option is necessary to reform our health care system?

[Kazan]

LOL please doggity tell us why a public option is necessary to reform our health care system?

So the government can take over the health care system, gaining more and more control over the population. You are nothing more than a vote to a politician, they could care less about your health.

[Soul Crusher]

The reason the public option has gone nowhere is because big insurance orchestrated one of the most successful scare campaigns in the history of modern American politics.

I guess the CBO was scaring people too in saying the deficits would explode and taxes need to be raised to finance this fiasco?

[Al Doggity]

are these id's readily available to them? yes they are, would this help cut down on providing health care to illegal immigrants yes it would...seems very reasonable so why no compromise?

Not always. I used to do homeless counseling and acquiring state id was an issue a lot of my clients faced and resolving it was a usually a hassle. It took nearly four months to deal with some of these cases.
On top of that, I don't have any problem with democrats seeing the amendment for what it was, anti-immigrant legislation, and rejecting it. If you do, that's your prerogative which you are entitled to, but

Now the hatch statement I see you point in but it doesnt outlaw abortion simply prohibits tax payer funded abortion. I understand it gets voted on every year but why not put wording in that protects doctors that feel morally obligated to not perform abortions if it becomes legally funded by the govt? I honestly could see a case like that making it to the supreme court so why not just nip it in the bud now?
Actually reform is the biggest part of the bill and 80% of that is agreed on...the reps dont want it the dems do yet again no bi partisan compromise, why?

I agree that there likely has been compromise but the dems say there hasnt been so Im curious just name one thing that the dems have compromised on?

I never said it outlaws abortion, but the wording of the amendment does potentially threaten whether or not cases of rape or life threatening pregnancies will be covered. It also potentially threatens to compromise a potential abortion patients coverage. The language in the bill was sufficient, yet the language Hatch tacked on had the potential to be used as a backdoor for clandestine political motives.

As for compromises, just off the top of my head, Baucus brought a revised bill to the floor a few days ago. It's ridiculous to go over how many compromises have been brought to the table. This entire process has been about compromise.

[Al Doggity]

LOL please doggity tell us why a public option is necessary to reform our health care system?

Did I say that I thought a public option was necessary? Did I even say that I supported one?

What I did say is that that article, from The Heritage Foundation, no less, was crap. The roadblocks the public option has faced have everything to do with a corporate-backed disinformation campaign.

[Al Doggity]

I guess the CBO was scaring people too in saying the deficits would explode and taxes need to be raised to finance this fiasco?

No, but their reports didn't contain any tidbits on death panels, rationed health care, or the state raising your kids.

[Kazan]

Now I've seen it all, expecting an American citizen to produce some form of identification proving they are indeed and American citizen is anti-immigration. Where do you come up with this bullshit

[Soul Crusher]

Did I say that I thought a public option was necessary? Did I even say that I supported one?

What I did say is that that article, from The Heritage Foundation, no less, was crap. The roadblocks the public option has faced have everything to do with a corporate-backed disinformation campaign.

No, the CBO has said time and time again that Obamacare is not paid for and must raise taxes to be financed.  

[Soul Crusher]

No, but their reports didn't contain any tidbits on death panels, rationed health care, or the state raising your kids.

Thats because they deal mostly with the $ $ $ issues. 

4 times now they have shot down all the claims of obamacare regarding the deficits and costs.   

[tonymctones]

Now I've seen it all, expecting an American citizen to produce some form of identification proving they are indeed and American citizen is anti-immigration. Where do you come up with this bullshit

hahahahahah

[tonymctones]

Not always. I used to do homeless counseling and acquiring state id was an issue a lot of my clients faced and resolving it was a usually a hassle. It took nearly four months to deal with some of these cases.
On top of that, I don't have any problem with democrats seeing the amendment for what it was, anti-immigrant legislation, and rejecting it. If you do, that's your prerogative which you are entitled to, but

I dont care it takes 4 months for a small percentage of ppl it will cut down on paying for illegal immigrants and help cut down on fraud...

I never said it outlaws abortion, but the wording of the amendment does potentially threaten whether or not cases of rape or life threatening pregnancies will be covered. It also potentially threatens to compromise a potential abortion patients coverage. The language in the bill was sufficient, yet the language Hatch tacked on had the potential to be used as a backdoor for clandestine political motives.

As for compromises, just off the top of my head, Baucus brought a revised bill to the floor a few days ago. It's ridiculous to go over how many compromises have been brought to the table. This entire process has been about compromise.

Thats fine then guess what you can do compromise and put language that allows for rape or life threatening pregnancy theres no need to dismiss it all together. Youre very quick to call what a spade a spade as long as its not with the dems this is nothing but a move to allow tax payer funded abortions down the road, talk about political moves.

LOL just one doggity i want just one compromise the dems have made?

[Al Doggity]

Thats because they deal mostly with the $ $ $ issues. 

4 times now they have shot down all the claims of obamacare regarding the deficits and costs.   

Yet, those CBO reports had nothing to do with any of the astroturfed outrage aimed at the public option. It was primarily due to a scare campaign orchestrated by big insurance.

[Soul Crusher]

Yet, those CBO reports had nothing to do with any of the astroturfed outrage aimed at the public option. It was primarily due to a scare campaign orchestrated by big insurance.

CBO completely undermined the claims of the WH and the Senators know that there is no way to finance this without either a massive middle class tax increase and/or rationing.  There are no two ways around it and Obama is on record saying he wont raise taxes and wont sign a bill adding to the deficit.

Hence , he boxed himself in with his own bogus promises and claims.