Author Topic: Could Jay Cutler have beat Dorian Yates?  (Read 113813 times)

Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2005, 10:12:44 PM »
Sorry, Hendrix, but I already tried that route with the Dorian fans. I challenged them long ago to find two Dorian pics in contest shape that were as good as these two:




and they all conveniently ignored the challenge.

The Dorian fans got soundly defeated in the massive Ronnie vs. Dorian thread, but they can't admit that the current champ (pre gut- at his best) was better than Dorian..



Ronnie is in good condition in those photos but Yates is stil miles ahead IMO. In the famous black and white photos he is light years ahead.

YOur challenge was readily accepted an you were proven wrong. Everyone agree to this accept you. That fact is Ronnie at his best condition is nowhere near dorians condition. See the B and W photos and there is your proof.
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Earl1972

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2005, 10:15:25 PM »
Everybody always raves about Dorian and the black and white photos.  He looked nothing like that on contest day.

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Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2005, 10:18:22 PM »
Everybody always raves about Dorian and the black and white photos.  He looked nothing like that on contest day.

E

Most contest are done in Color these days are they not?
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2005, 10:20:54 PM »
Quote
YOur challenge was readily accepted an you were proven wrong.

No, if you go back and reread the thread, the Dorian fans were silenced quite abrubtly by the video and pics of Ronnie in insane condition in the battle for the olympia 2001. His quads were cut to ribbons.

Quote
Everyone agree to this accept you.

If that is true than why was there a 550+ post thread? ::)

Quote
See the B and W photos and there is your proof.

Not so fast- Ronnie has some pretty impressive black and white pics too ya know:





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Earl1972

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2005, 10:42:16 PM »
Most contest are done in Color these days are they not?

He looked worse at the 93 O then he did in those pics.  His chest for example never looked that thick on contest day.  It has nothing to do with the color of the pics.

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suckmymuscle

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2005, 12:16:13 AM »
  No, he couldn't. Dorian's mass, in relation to bone structure, was greater than Cutler's, and Dorian presented such mass in much better conditioning. Actually, when it comes to conditioning, NO ONE can match Dorian, not even eight years after his retirement. Dorian's dryness, come contest day, remains the "gold standard", which all bodybuilders try to emulate. As far as natural structure, muscle belly insertion points, etc, I would say Dorian and Jay are roughly equal, genetic-wise(both highly gifted).

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2005, 03:57:03 AM »
i agree yates today would beat dorian at his peak.

WTF?
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #82 on: May 29, 2005, 05:50:27 AM »
Hulkster you want two photos of Yates in contest shape that match or surpass those pics of Coleman , here you go.  ;)

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2005, 05:56:24 AM »
His conditioning was fantastic

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2005, 06:22:16 AM »
Again

Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2005, 06:27:13 AM »
His conditioning was fantastic

Yes, it is. But Ronnie's condition is certainly not "nowhere near Dorian's".. I mean seriously, give me a break..



The Dorian fans are simply forgetting that the modern day bloated Ronnie was once striated as hell, stripped of fat, and hard as a rock.

They make it sound like Dorian had no skin while Ronnie looked like the Stay Puffed Marshmallow man.. ::)


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the shadow

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2005, 06:29:48 AM »
Just so everyone knows, THIS is the pic of Fux that keeps getting passed off (incorrectly) as a Dorian pic:




fuck u hulkster...this pic is not fux..its definetely yates......prove that this pic is fux and not yates......no way fux had a back that perfect....that pic is 100000000000000000000000 0000000000%  the back of dorian'THE SHADOW'yates
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2005, 06:52:54 AM »
f**k u hulkster...this pic is not fux..its definetely yates......prove that this pic is fux and not yates......no way fux had a back that perfect....that pic is 100000000000000000000000 0000000000%  the back of dorian'THE SHADOW'yates


That pic is Fux and you prove its Yates wanker  :P

Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2005, 06:58:45 AM »
Yes, it is. But Ronnie's condition is certainly not "nowhere near Dorian's".. I mean seriously, give me a break..



The Dorian fans are simply forgetting that the modern day bloated Ronnie was once striated as hell, stripped of fat, and hard as a rock.

They make it sound like Dorian had no skin while Ronnie looked like the Stay Puffed Marshmallow man.. ::)




Hulkster I dont mean to flame you personally, and I am not a Dorian Fan anymore than a Ronnie fan. But IMO Dorian at his best Condition was light years ahead of big ron even before the gut. The pic you posted of ROn when he supposedly had amazing condition, he doenst even have Straitions in his chest
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deviant

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2005, 07:55:36 AM »
Hulkster I dont mean to flame you personally, and I am not a Dorian Fan anymore than a Ronnie fan. But IMO Dorian at his best Condition was light years ahead of big ron even before the gut. The pic you posted of ROn when he supposedly had amazing condition, he doenst even have Straitions in his chest

I'd have to agree here....whether you like his physique or not, Yates condition at the '93 Olympia was probably the best anyone has come into a show....hard as granite, striations everywhere and DRY DRY DRY

...that was a different era though and i dont know what those guys were doing for contest prep back then but it worked better than whatever they do nowadays. Many in that line up displayed a level of conditioning, hardness and dryness that todays pros struggle to get near...

...in my opinion the '93 Olympia was one of the all time classics, true legends Yates, Flex and Ray in probably their all time best conditions...

.... a shame that to get in that sort of shape you had to borderline death, as Benaziza and Munzer found out to their cost.

Ronnie gets in astounding condition considering his size but the early 90s were the golden age for conditioning and dryness.
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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2005, 09:30:49 AM »
I think Jay could beat Dorian. Jay is 5'9 and weighs 275lb on stage. Thats 2 inches shorter than Dorian and 20lbs heavier.

Jay cutler is a better version of Nasser with a MUCH better back. We all know that Nasser gave Dorian a run for his money in 95, 96, and 97.
who said jay outweighed big yates by 20 odd pounds.......fuck u royalty..............dor ian reportdly weighed at a massive 273lbs,he was one of the biggest guys that in 1997 on that olympia stage.so jay and yates r more or less of the same weight with dorian havin that trademark granite hard thickness that even ronnie cannot achieve................. ...END OF STORY
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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2005, 09:55:05 AM »
f**k u hulkster...this pic is not fux..its definetely yates......prove that this pic is fux and not yates......no way fux had a back that perfect....that pic is 100000000000000000000000 0000000000%  the back of dorian'THE SHADOW'yates

That pic is Fux dude. You can see it in his legs and lats...

mesmorph78

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #92 on: May 29, 2005, 10:10:57 AM »
 ::)
still havent seen any dorian pics that match the two hulkster posted none...
for god sakes the man had poor biceps...
what was out the ordinary on dorian's physique except his back....
dorian winning paul flex... shawn... etc was BULL SHIT!!
lets see a pic of dorian matchin these picsronnie displayin these for size impressiveness and symetry and vascularity






...
please post pics of dorian have anywear near that seperation... vascularity size an symetry...
let me break it doen...
when u post pics of dorin with bigger and better arms... a narrower waiiste... better delts... better traps... better glutes ..better hamstrings.... better chest...
then you have an argument...
until then you are just believeing the hype...
all dorian that is better than coleman is calves.. and conditioning....
no more words...
post the pics with the specs i asked for!

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #93 on: May 29, 2005, 10:12:47 AM »
Ronnie has no scrotum.

LyricTenor

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #94 on: May 29, 2005, 12:45:36 PM »
LOL , ok i've got a few pics that are much more impressive than ronnie.






oooh ouch....   sorry for owning you.
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LyricTenor

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2005, 12:47:35 PM »
lol. few more.. ouch...
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LyricTenor

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2005, 12:48:34 PM »
awww..  these 2 are some of my favorites
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2005, 02:14:42 PM »
Quote
The pic you posted of ROn when he supposedly had amazing condition, he doenst even have Straitions in his chest

Whic pic are you refering to? Ronnie in his pre-gut stage had a chest that was striated as all hell:



Despite the popular contrary belief, comparing Ronnie at his best (pre-gut) to Dorian at his best is like comparing apples to oranges.

Ronnie's physique has something that Dorian did not: muscle shape and an amazing taper (and good vascularity).

For example, compare these pics:




both are in contest shape.  Dorian just doesn't have the shape that Ronnie does, and that makes a big difference in how good a physique looks.

Ronnie's taper was so much better than Dorian's, it makes his phyisque esp. when viewed head on from the front or the back look much more impressive:



see how much more impressive this looks than that shot of dorian's relaxed back shot at the 93 O?

The reason is taper and conditioning.

Dorian just didn't have the natural muscle shape (especially in the arms and quads) or the X-frame that Ronnie did:

]

Compare Ronnie's back double bi to Dorian's and you will quickly see that his taper is so much better, and the muscle quality and shape are far superior.  Size wise they are the same, but that is where it ends.'


ronnie's quads in the pre-gut stage had such better shape and definition than Dorians.



If Ronnie stood next to dorian in his pre-gut stage, his taper would make Dorian run off the stage!


Even Ronnie post-gut still has better muscle shape than Dorian...
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mesmorph78

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2005, 03:43:46 PM »
lights out game over....
especially in thatin that last pic... comparing the 2
dorian still havent posted any pics to top any of the photos posted of ronnie...
ronnie is simply out of this world...
yates is ..a-ight
wide waiste.. poor biceps...
how did he beat dillet shawn flex... kevin...
only the full of shit judges know... and will take that secret to their graves...
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2005, 03:46:40 PM »
Leave it to Hulkster to turn this back into a Yates VS Coleman thread , and he keeps digging for things to justify he notion that Coleman is superior , like Coleman has superior shape , conditioning and taper .

You wanted two pictures of Yates that compared to Coleman's conditioning , I gave you five , and those pic from the 1993 Mr Olympia I would say slightly edge out those pics of Coleman , look at the side tricep shot , you can clearly see his serattus , intercostles and obliques and well as his abs , and in that pic of Coleman you really can't see much with the exception of his abs.

I think you're high when you say Yates has no taper , look at that pic of him doing the front latspread , his V-taper is out of this world even with his " wide " waist

And when you say Coleman has superior muscle shape thats debateable , I would say Coleman has much better shape to his biceps than Yates , Triceps no , maybe a slight edge in roundness on the delts but nothing dramatic , although Coleman has a bigger chest I don't feel it looks any better than Yates'
forearms I would say Yates is better , back about even with perhaps a slight edge going to Coleman on width , midsection , Coleman has the narrow waist and medicore abs , Yates has a wider waist with sharp abs , serattus , intercostles and obliques , I would give the edge to Yates even with the wider waist although Coleman's has become the worse of the sport ,
glutes lol get serious , Yates has shown ripped glutes and who cares ? and Coleman's ass is like his gut the biggest in the sport and that distracts from most poses , hamstrings you could give Coleman a slight edge , Yates isn't bad at all , quads you can give to Coleman although they're not as great as everyone claims , but he does have the edge on sweep ,  Calves we know we know .

It all boils down to who would present the greatest overall package and who would look the best in the mandatory poses and in my opinion Yates would beat Ronnie Coleman , like he has before , Yates has much better balance , and muscle proportion , he has 99% of Coleman's size & width and fewer weaknesses.

A picture is worth a thousand words , like this one of Yates owning Coleman