Author Topic: Could Jay Cutler have beat Dorian Yates?  (Read 113777 times)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #225 on: June 04, 2005, 07:38:29 PM »
Yes... superior frame,nitwit.  As in better insertions, smaller joints, narrower hips,wider clavicles you know.... A SUPERIOR FRAME. Thw way you go on about Doz's proportion and balance you would think he had Flex's frame when it's obvious Dorian wasn't blessed with insane genetics. He had very good genetics but not like Ronnie was blessed. And that is the difference between them. They are both dedicated pro's who developed themselves to their absolute limit but ron's limit is above Dorian's. As far as balance goes, Ronnie has two working biceps to Dorian's one. and let's not forget the torn tricep either. The guy won the Olympia contest in his last year with one good arm, amazing.

We're obviously comparing the two at their respective bests just in case you didn't know  ;) the only edge Ronnie has on structure is a narrower waist & hips , I would say thier shoulderblade width is about the same , Seeing as Coleman has the edge with the waist it helps with the illusion of a much better V-taper .

What ironic is a lot of people bust Dorian's ass for winning with a torn bicep , but have no problem with Coleman winning with poor calves , his calves aren't just small in relation to his quads they lack overall development as well.

Coleman has a better structure ? Coleman has poor balance and always has , even when he was very light and now he is very heavy its worse , ontop of having poor calves he has overdeveloped quads , a giant ass that can actually be seen from the front , just poor balance.


GUNZO

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #226 on: June 04, 2005, 07:53:34 PM »
Far better BBers at their best were defeated by Yates, so I will have to say that Jay would be smoked.

Palpatine Q

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #227 on: June 04, 2005, 08:06:58 PM »
[





This picture says it all. Not on Dorian's best day...

Royalty

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #228 on: June 05, 2005, 03:49:04 AM »
[





This picture says it all. Not on Dorian's best day...


I have to say that Titus looks damn good standing next to the champ there.....he is not completely dwarfed or blown away. I mean Ronnie is bigger and Craig wasnt a threat but he does look good.His thighs look great too.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #229 on: June 05, 2005, 06:15:49 AM »
Oh yes not on his best day  ::)  ::)

Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #230 on: June 05, 2005, 06:31:40 AM »
Yeah this settles it in my mind. Even though it is just one shot it highlights quite nicley why ronnie is leagues above doz - namely  sheer muscle mass, shape, seperation, vascularity and equal conditioning. Dorian is great and he was no doubt dealt the genetic badhand and has made the most of it more than most but ronnie is just on another level.

a celebration shot of dorian with his medal around his neck is not fair to compare against a shot hit by ronnie during competition.... and for the last time, VASCULARITY is not something competitors are marked on, so why bother bringing it up? Who has more vascularity between ron and Dorian? I dunno, and I dont care since it is not something they are JUDGED on.
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sculpture

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #231 on: June 05, 2005, 09:56:50 AM »
Oh yes not on his best day  ::)  ::)

That picture says it all. Not on his damnest best day. Why ND, do you post a pic where dorian is clearly not as good as ronnie? Not only taht but you insist on comparing pics from a compettition to some black and white studio-esque shot which renders your post meaningless before any comparison should be made

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #232 on: June 05, 2005, 10:02:08 AM »

I have to say that Titus looks damn good standing next to the champ there.....he is not completely dwarfed or blown away. I mean Ronnie is bigger and Craig wasnt a threat but he does look good.His thighs look great too.

That's exactly why Craig is called "The uncrowned mr o"

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #233 on: June 05, 2005, 11:35:00 AM »
That picture says it all. Not on his damnest best day. Why ND, do you post a pic where dorian is clearly not as good as ronnie? Not only taht but you insist on comparing pics from a compettition to some black and white studio-esque shot which renders your post meaningless before any comparison should be made

Clearly not as good ? to who you and Ray Charles? get your vision checked look at the picture again and then I'll accept your apology , you might thing I posted a pic of Jason Arntz , get the hell outta here  >:( even this one is better  >:(

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #234 on: June 05, 2005, 01:32:30 PM »
Erm is the above pic real?

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #235 on: June 05, 2005, 02:27:48 PM »
it's a figment of your imagination.

like a successful black man.

zing.

(based upon the argument on race from other thread)

bbfan1

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #236 on: June 05, 2005, 02:54:40 PM »
Oh yes not on his best day  ::)  ::)

Exactly.

ZachG_85

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #237 on: June 05, 2005, 03:03:10 PM »
Neither of those B&W shots beat the Ronnie pic with Titus/DJ.

Ron's got bigger traps, arms are FAR better conditioned, legs are more separated, shoulders pop out more, AND it's a contest shot.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #238 on: June 05, 2005, 03:16:42 PM »
Neither of those B&W shots beat the Ronnie pic with Titus/DJ.

Ron's got bigger traps, arms are FAR better conditioned, legs are more separated, shoulders pop out more, AND it's a contest shot.

Same pose , differant angle , competition pic , same effect , beats Coleman  ;)

ZachG_85

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #239 on: June 05, 2005, 03:21:41 PM »
Same pose , differant angle , competition pic , same effect , beats Coleman  ;)

..you've gotta be kidding me. Legs aren't nearly as cut, arms son't have the shape, smaller traps, flat chest.

Oh I forgot. Doz's calves are better. Silly me for forgetting the only ND requirement.  ::)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #240 on: June 05, 2005, 03:35:18 PM »
..you've gotta be kidding me. Legs aren't nearly as cut, arms son't have the shape, smaller traps, flat chest.

Oh I forgot. Doz's calves are better. Silly me for forgetting the only ND requirement.  ::)

Its called balance , something Coleman is sevrely lacking and if you'll notice Coleman has his arms slightly higher than Yates and Coleman has bigger traps? what the f**k? and whats funny that in that pic Titus looks almost as good as Coleman and Yates outclasses both of them.

Oh I forgot Coleman doesn't have any calves and nither does Zach so that means they're not a requirement  :)

ZachG_85

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #241 on: June 05, 2005, 03:42:57 PM »
Its called balance , something Coleman is sevrely lacking and if you'll notice Coleman has his arms slightly higher than Yates and Coleman has bigger traps? what the f**k? and whats funny that in that pic Titus looks almost as good as Coleman and Yates outclasses both of them.

Oh I forgot Coleman doesn't have any calves and nither does Zach so that means they're not a requirement  :)

 ::)

I wish I understood your severe hatred for Ronnie. Odd that you never bring up Haney or Sergio, it's all Arnie/Larry/Dorian. Hm.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #242 on: June 05, 2005, 03:48:56 PM »
::)

I wish I understood your severe hatred for Ronnie. Odd that you never bring up Haney or Sergio, it's all Arnie/Larry/Dorian. Hm.

I don't hate anyone , in theory no one can't hate people , only things they do and I don't hate anything Coleman did , I just laugh when people on on at lenght about how great he is , its laughable , and what are you trying to elude to Zach? I don't go on about Larry , and I think Haney is leaps & bounds better than Coleman as well , just in case you were wondering  ;)

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #243 on: June 05, 2005, 06:54:53 PM »
a celebration shot of dorian with his medal around his neck is not fair to compare against a shot hit by ronnie during competition.... and for the last time, VASCULARITY is not something competitors are marked on, so why bother bringing it up? Who has more vascularity between ron and Dorian? I dunno, and I dont care since it is not something they are JUDGED on.

fair enough. Then no one is EVER allowed to criticize a 2004 Ronnie gut pic that was taken backstage, because the competitors are not JUDGED BACKSTAGE.
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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #244 on: June 05, 2005, 07:00:00 PM »
fair enough. Then no one is EVER allowed to criticize a 2004 Ronnie gut pic that was taken backstage, because the competitors are not JUDGED BACKSTAGE.

I can only speak for myself, but I have never critizied Ronnies midsection in the picture you speak of, and I only bring up ronnies midsection when his is being compared to Dorian. I think Ron is one of the best bodybuilders ever, even with his midsection but IMO Dorian is was better.
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #245 on: June 05, 2005, 08:25:30 PM »



Man, when you compare these guys, I don't really understand how dorian can be better. All these pics don't lie! Yes, he has better balance, but that is BECAUSE OF ONE BODYPART! The rest of his physique pales in comparison, so just because Dorian has calves doesn't make up for the fact that almost the entire rest of his physique is inferior to Ronnie!  this may seem a bit exaggerrated, but look at the pics I posted!- it is only one of many that show that Ronnie's muscle shape makes his body look so much better than Dorians.


And also, since when is vascularity not judged in contests? Bodybuilders have always gained points for being vascular. Just ask Rich Gaspari.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #246 on: June 06, 2005, 12:23:17 AM »
For you to say his enitre physique sans calves is inferior to Ronnie's is just plain nonsense , thats a moronic statement , you act like Yates is some B-list bodybuilder , you put way to much stock into Coleman seriously you do , and we've dicusssed this to death , Yates has more than just calves on Coleman , he has proportion & balance and yes in some cases better shape , cling to your , Ronnie has more striations , better vasculairty comments because your " argument " keeps getting weaker , and I've posted pleanty of pics of Coleman onstage with his gut hanging out and nice shot of Yates you posted still looks better than Coleman  ;)


bbfan1

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #247 on: June 06, 2005, 12:48:27 AM »


Dorian looks incredible in this picture, but I give the nod to Ronnie.

tony b

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #248 on: June 06, 2005, 01:08:48 AM »
it would be interesting to have an actual poll setup to vote. Wonder if the mods can set this up??

Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #249 on: June 06, 2005, 06:33:27 AM »
"And also, since when is vascularity not judged in contests? Bodybuilders have always gained points for being vascular. Just ask Rich Gaspari."

Yah Rich used to clean up during the "vascularity" round. Rich was rewarded for his incredible condition, not vascularity. Competitors are not rewarded for vascularity, I gaurentee you have never heard a judge say he gave someone extra points for vascularity. Judges have openly stated that excessive vascularity detracts from the overall physique.


Anyone remember the late Curtis Leffler(sp?) he was the most vascular dude around and he never did well in any shows.
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