Bob Cicherillo question...

[affeman]

when you're all drugs, it doesn't matter what exercises you do so long as you don't get injured.

That's the point. When you have 30-50 times the amount of Testosterone and GH of a regular guy in your bloodstream you'll grow perfectly by toying around on machines and cables as well.

Problem is that the heavy basic exercises stimulate the natural hormone release the most, a fact a juicer can't relate to. Especially as a natural you can't even afford NOT to squat or deadlift imo. These exercises will also speed up your metabolism for at least 48 hours.

That's always the problem when average Joe wants to get training tips from a pro, cause "He's huge and has to know what he's talking about".

[Tre]

That's the point. When you have 30-50 times the amount of Testosterone and GH of a regular guy in your bloodstream you'll grow perfectly by toying around on machines and cables as well.

Problem is that the heavy basic exercises stimulate the natural hormone release the most, a fact a juicer can't relate to. Especially as a natural you can't even afford NOT to squat or deadlift imo. These exercises will also speed up your metabolism for at least 48 hours.

That's always the problem when average Joe wants to get training tips from a pro, cause "He's huge and has to know what he's talking about".

So, if I just jack up my test intake, I can get 20-inch arms by lifting 25-lb dumbbells??

[Captain Equipoise]

That's exactly the list I was looking for, thanks guys.

[TRIX]

I wonder what its like being a PRO BODYBUILDER and have some obese dude just dwarf you.

[#1 Klaus fan]

So, if I just jack up my test intake, I can get 20-inch arms by lifting 25-lb dumbbells??

Bob thinks so.

[#1 Klaus fan]

I wonder what its like being a PRO BODYBUILDER and have some obese dude just dwarf you.

Must break their heart.

[Topskin69]

Find me someone who has torn their pec using a Hammer, etc....

Hammer machines force you into a fixed plane of movement, so if your limbs/body structure doesn't mesh with the machine, then you are asking for injury. Dumbells would in fact be the safest option, (for your first intial exercise), while machines would be a reasonable option only towards the end of a workout, when you would only be using a fraction of the weight. (Note that this is better served for machines that have handles/levers that are adjustable and can better mimic your own natural plane of movement...in other words NOT Hammer machines.)

[WillGrant]

This is what worked for Bob , will it work for you? who knows we are all different..just more cheap shots aimed at chicko

[BIGKUBMAN]

Bob is lazy. That's why he prefers machines.

Machines has their place but you need heavy free weights also.

what have you acomplished other than collecting jays soiled trunks?

[Chick]

Hammer machines force you into a fixed plane of movement, so if your limbs/body structure doesn't mesh with the machine, then you are asking for injury. Dumbells would in fact be the safest option, (for your first intial exercise), while machines would be a reasonable option only towards the end of a workout, when you would only be using a fraction of the weight. (Note that this is better served for machines that have handles/levers that are adjustable and can better mimic your own natural plane of movement...in other words NOT Hammer machines.)

All Hammer machines have handles that are set to mimic the natural position of the hand/ arm....not sure what machines youre talking about....the straight bar forces your position into a completely UNnatural position, thus the many injuries (especially to the shoulder/ rotator cuff)

I've advocated DB over BB for many years as my many articles would support

[BIGKUBMAN]

All Hammer machines have handles that are set to mimic the natural position of the hand/ arm....not sure what machines youre talking about....the straight bar forces your position into a completely UNnatural position, thus the many injuries (especially to the shoulder/ rotator cuff)

I've advocated DB over BB for many years as my many articles would support

well spoken chick fuk them haters 

[Topskin69]

All Hammer machines have handles that are set to mimic the natural position of the hand/ arm....not sure what machines youre talking about....the straight bar forces your position into a completely UNnatural position, thus the many injuries (especially to the shoulder/ rotator cuff)

I've advocated DB over BB for many years as my many articles would support

I agree with you that DB are better then barbells....but I would still say that the Hammer machines are not ideal for use as primary exercises in a program. I use them, but only as the finishing touch to my workouts...I always try to incorperate compound movements/basic free weight exercises at the begining of any workout.

I have aggravated my shoulders far more with Hammer machines then any other form of exercise...I still use them, but sparingly, and I dont pile too much weight on them.

Also I agree with you that the flat BB bench sucks ass...I never do it anymore...and my chest hasnt suffered at all.... I do however do advocate the Incline BB press as a good movement.....

[Chick]

I agree with you that DB are better then barbells....but I would still say that the Hammer machines are not ideal for use as primary exercises in a program. I use them, but only as the finishing touch to my workouts...I always try to incorperate compound movements/basic free weight exercises at the begining of any workout.

I have aggravated my shoulders far more with Hammer machines then any other form of exercise...I still use them, but sparingly, and I dont pile too much weight on them.

Also I agree with you that the flat BB bench sucks ass...I never do it anymore...and my chest hasnt suffered at all.... I do however do advocate the Incline BB press as a good movement.....

Thats my whole point of the article...that there really shouldnt be any "primary" exercises...they are all just a emans to and end...tools of the trade that should be as customized and taylored to peoples physiques...

The primary exercise were developed in the 1800's, and based on what they knew and what they had to work with at the time...

[Van_Bilderass]

All Hammer machines have handles that are set to mimic the natural position of the hand/ arm....not sure what machines youre talking about....

I think he means that they are still fixed. You can't adjust the motion to suit your ideal plane of motion since your body is fixed. Any fixed plane motion when done repeatedly could cause overuse injuries and muscular imbalances - at least that's what some esteemed trainers say. Squats on the smith machine would be dangerous for the same reason.

I don't know if there's a "natural position" for any limb. More or less dangerous when loaded maybe. I've even seen some argue that any type of straight out pressing motion isn't "natural" when loaded heavily. Man is not "designed" (or didn't evolve) to move significant loads straight out like that.

[Chick]

I think he means that they are still fixed. You can't adjust the motion to suit your ideal plane of motion since your body is fixed. Any fixed plane motion when done repeatedly could cause overuse injuries and muscular imbalances - at least that's what some esteemed trainers say. Squats on the smith machine would be dangerous for the same reason.

I don't know if there's a "natural position" for any limb. More or less dangerous when loaded maybe. I've even seen some argue that any type of straight out pressing motion isn't "natural" when loaded heavily. Man is not "designed" (or didn't evolve) to move significant loads straight out like that.

a "fixed" position isnt really the problem...it becomes a problem when the weight exceeds the purpose...then the problem becomes compounded

[Topskin69]

Thats my whole point of the article...that there really shouldnt be any "primary" exercises...they are all just a emans to and end...tools of the trade that should be as customized and taylored to peoples physiques...

The primary exercise were developed in the 1800's, and based on what they knew and what they had to work with at the time...

I should have said "optimal" rather then "primary."

You are correct in that there is no right or wrong answer in exercise selection, but there are always questions of what is or is not optimal, and most of the time what is optimal, is also what is the most difficult, or painfull.

You didn't build the foundation of your physique on Hammer, or any other type of machine, you built it on barbells, and dumbells,....I'm sure it was only when you achevied most of your size, that you started going that route...

Also.. . As Van B pointed out...repetitive stress injuries are much more likely with a fixed plane of movement that is to be found in machine, as opposed to a Dumbell where you can allow a much more natural range of motion.... Of course this is assuming that the person executing the exercise is using good form, and not using too much weight...

The injuries that we see from Bodybuilders have less to do with free weights, and have more to do with them using stupid amounts of weight that they were not meant to handle in the first place...Steroids have a cortisone like effect on the body, and when you reduce inflammation, you run the risk of masking "good" pain that would otherwise tell you to back off...

You never see natural lifters getting pec tears or other similar injuries.

[Chick]

I should have said "optimal" rather then "primary."

You are correct in that there is no right or wrong answer in exercise selection, but there are always questions of what is or is not optimal, and most of the time what is optimal, is also what is the most difficult, or painfull.

You didn't build the foundation of your physique on Hammer, or any other type of machine, you built it on barbells, and dumbells,....I'm sure it was only when you achevied most of your size, that you started going that route...

Also.. . As Van B pointed out...repetitive stress injuries are much more likely with a fixed plane of movement that is to be found in machine, as opposed to a Dumbell where you can allow a much more natural range of motion.... Of course this is assuming that the person executing the exercise is using good form, and not using too much weight...

The injuries that we see from Bodybuilders have less to do with free weights, and have more to do with them using stupid amounts of weight that they were not meant to handle in the first place...Steroids have a cortisone like effect on the body, and when you reduce inflammation, you run the risk of masking "good" pain that would otherwise tell you to back off...

You never see natural lifters getting pec tears or other similar injuries.

Sure you do,,,and almost always due to the same thing...using stupid weight. Layne Norton ring a bell?

[Topskin69]

Sure you do,,,and almost always due to the same thing...using stupid weight. Layne Norton ring a bell?

I would imagine that there are some exceptions to that statement, but you see it far more in Juiced atheletes.... Let's face it...most naturals cant bench anywhere near 350-500 pounds...which is almost always the range that is stated when I hear about pros talking their pec tear experiences...

[gcb]

I'm no expert, but to me that list makes sense. Especially if you're never going to step on stage - why risk injury? I've had problems with both the squat and the deadlift. I will still do squats occasionally although now i keep something under my heel which keeps my back straighter and emphasizes my quads. And failure IS overrated - just do another set if you feel you haven't done enough.

[saucetradomous]

Sure you do,,,and almost always due to the same thing...using stupid weight. Layne Norton ring a bell?

Yes, he sure is stupid.

[#1 Klaus fan]

Bob, have you ever put your showy muscles to any kind of test? Done any high rep sets to failure for example (bodyweight bench etc), or have your muscles always been full of air? 

[Van_Bilderass]

Bob has stated he did 405 for 20 on the bench. So he has done plenty of barbell benching cause that's absolute world class even in powerlifting circles.  

[Chick]

I'm no expert, but to me that list makes sense. Especially if you're never going to step on stage - why risk injury? I've had problems with both the squat and the deadlift. I will still do squats occasionally although now i keep something under my heel which keeps my back straighter and emphasizes my quads. And failure IS overrated - just do another set if you feel you haven't done enough.

Exactly...training to failure (true failure) is just about the dumbest routine I ever tried...and an engraved invitation to injury...often, the failure, is the muscle or tendon pulling off the bone, or some other nagging injury that takes you out of action for months...

[io856]

Ronnie Coleman

Dorian Yates

Lee Haney



Dennis James

Branch Warren

...to name a few

[Chick]

Ronnie Coleman

Dorian Yates

Lee Haney



Dennis James

Branch Warren

...to name a few

What are you naming these guys for?  The only guy that trained to failure...is Yates, who is the last guy I would use as a example of injury free training