Author Topic: THIS..is a gym!  (Read 40770 times)

DroppingPlates

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2009, 12:14:06 PM »
It doesn't make sense ,when I train with  free weight I don't move in multiple direction either .

You activate more 'core' muscles to stabilize your movements, like tri's & front delts for benches for example. Also EMG studies show that more muscle fibers are activated during FW exercises than those with machines.

Machine vs benchpress

funk51

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2009, 12:37:27 PM »

        this is a nice gym but would like to see more dumbbells, they don't have a very big selection of dbs, should have from 5 lbs to 200's in case ronnie stops by. guy narrating sounded bored hire liev schreiber next time will make it all sound so much more interesting.
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che

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #77 on: December 31, 2009, 12:49:52 PM »
You activate more 'core' muscles to stabilize your movements, like tri's & front delts for benches for example.

[

True , but the difference is not noticeable to the eye ,my point is that you can build the same physique w/ free weights or machines.

BB

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #78 on: December 31, 2009, 12:52:46 PM »
Yeah I wonder how that affects the functioning of the muscle, if at all.

On the other hand some might argue that machines could perhaps supplment your training by emphasising parts of the muscle in ways that you cant with free weights. That would seem like a good argument, if true, and also if it's not overused.


I would not argue that it's a big deal if you are trying to get big and a little strong. You give a man enough time, food, resistance, and dianabol... he'll get there:). A muscle up to a certain point doesn't care if the resistance is from a barbell or a machine. my main problem is with something like a smith machine, something that locks you into such an un-natural plane of movement.

Free weight work simply allows more options. In my view, it it is always, whether free weight or machine, a bad idea to force un-natural form or technique on an athlete. At best it hampers an athlete's expression of strength/talent, at worst it leads to injury because an athlete is trying to force himself into a box he just doesn't naturally fit into. Best to let the athlete find his own groove.

You see this all the time with powerlifters and O/L lifters, people argue about xyz's form/technique and how bad it is. Meanwhile , the lifter has found his way to the top because he his own natural way of doing things(e.g. Patera, Rigert, Anderson, Peoples, Martinez, etc....) .

I think the real debate here isn't machines vs. free weight, in so much as it is proper implamentation and selection of machines in an athletes training.


Palpatine Q

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2009, 01:02:07 PM »
Powerlifting weirdos?? As opposed to oiled up men in thongs who train on "machines" that can do a 3 plate deadlift on a smith? Ok!

Why is one any better than the other...to each his own. it's all weightlifting.

Funny you would say that anyway...being you have recently competed

DroppingPlates

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2009, 01:03:31 PM »
True , but the difference is not noticeable to the eye ,my point is that you can build the same physique w/ free weights or machines.
Maybe, maybe not, got to admit this is a tough one.

I think FW give you more overall muscle control & flexability which are important for posing + that they activate more supporting/core muscles like delts, traps, forearms, lower back, glutes, hips & abs.

It's a goddamn cliche, but both have their advantages/disadvantages.

haider

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2009, 01:03:42 PM »


I would not argue that it's a big deal if you are trying to get big and a little strong. You give a man enough time, food, resistance, and dianabol... he'll get there:). A muscle up to a certain point doesn't care if the resistance is from a barbell or a machine. my main problem is with something like a smith machine, something that locks you into such an un-natural plane of movement.

Free weight work simply allows more options. In my view, it it is always, whether free weight or machine, a bad idea to force un-natural form or technique on an athlete. At best it hampers an athele's expression of strength/talent, at worst it leads to injury because an athlete is trying to force himself into a box he just doesn't naturally fit into. Best to let the athele find his own groove.

yea- training as an athlete and as a bodybuilder are two different things. Although in some cases, like smith machines as u mentioned, its probably not a good idea to use them as they could lead to injury.
follow the arrows

DroppingPlates

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2009, 01:08:44 PM »
        this is a nice gym but would like to see more dumbbells, they don't have a very big selection of dbs, should have from 5 lbs to 200's in case ronnie stops by. guy narrating sounded bored hire liev schreiber next time will make it all sound so much more interesting.

I won't be surprices if they have DB's up to 250 pound or more. A lot of PL guys do dumbell rows.

Palpatine Q

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2009, 01:11:05 PM »
Maybe, maybe not, got to admit this is a tough one.

I think FW give you more overall muscle control & flexability which are important for posing + thats they activate more supporting/core muscles like delts, traps, forearms, lower back, glutes, hips & abs.

It's a goddamn cliche, but both have their advantages/disadvantages.

there is no difference.


 Dorian was fucking tremendous and he used a lot of machines. wasn't a power guy at all. it's a bunch of bullshit propagated by douches with think they are "hardcore"

DroppingPlates

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2009, 01:28:35 PM »
there is no difference.


 Dorian was fucking tremendous and he used a lot of machines. wasn't a power guy at all. it's a bunch of bullshit propagated by douches with think they are "hardcore"

It depends on what kind of difference you mean. When it comes to building muscle I think the difference is close to zero. On the one hand there's Dorian crushing Hammer Strength machines and on the other one Ronnie crushing free weights, so it seems more a personal favor issue.

Palpatine Q

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2009, 01:38:26 PM »
It depends on what kind of difference you mean. When it comes to building muscle I think the difference is close to zero. On the one hand there's Dorian crushing Hammer Strength machines and on the other one Ronnie crushing free weights, so it seems more a personal favor issue.

that's why I said "there's no difference"  :D

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2009, 01:38:41 PM »
It's all relative.  There are several machines out there that allow for a little "give" in their range of motion; they do a great job of emulating free weights.  There is a shoulder press out that does a tremendous job of providing an inch or two of "play" from side to side when you are pressing.  Also, cables and machines are fantastic for bicep and tricep development.  As in life, everything is good in moderation...neither extreme is correct.

DroppingPlates

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2009, 01:42:53 PM »
that's why I said "there's no difference"  :D

Again: "It depends on what kind of difference you mean."

Devon97

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #88 on: December 31, 2009, 01:44:38 PM »
You're wrong. The reason I let beginning(!) clients train on a machine is more as a starting point, especially for multicompound movements like presses and rows. A lot of them aren't even capable to train correct on a machine (pushing/pulling too fast, no breath control, no full range of motion and so on..). Once they are capable to perform such exercises correctly it's time for more free weights exercises. Unfortunately a lot of clients don't have the motivation and/or motor skill to train with free weights.
.

If thats the case you should have them do modified body weight movements but never machines

Devon97

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2009, 01:46:01 PM »
True , but the difference is not noticeable to the eye ,my point is that you can build the same physique w/ free weights or machines.

Not with the same person. Machine work is vastly inferior.

Coach is Back!

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #90 on: December 31, 2009, 01:47:19 PM »
Why is one any better than the other...to each his own. it's all weightlifting.

Funny you would say that anyway...being you have recently competed

Two years ago.....and that was the first and last time in 18 years.

che

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #91 on: December 31, 2009, 01:50:52 PM »
Not with the same person. Machine work is vastly inferior.

Yes with the same person  , I'm speaking  from my own experience.

DroppingPlates

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #92 on: December 31, 2009, 02:00:28 PM »
.

If thats the case you should have them do modified body weight movements but never machines

I try to stimulate them but without motivation to learn & focus it's helpless. Once I see someone is lazy I become more a social guy than a trainer for them to save energy & time.

Palpatine Q

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #93 on: December 31, 2009, 02:04:59 PM »
Not with the same person. Machine work is vastly inferior.

Again....Dorian Yates trained mostly with machines and he won the Mr Olympia six times. Depending on who you ask, he's either the number 1 or 2 best BBer ever.

pellius

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #94 on: December 31, 2009, 04:12:53 PM »
Not with the same person. Machine work is vastly inferior.

Why?

dr.chimps

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #95 on: December 31, 2009, 04:20:04 PM »
Why?
Because, it's almost always a closed-chain exercise, not an open one.

pellius

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2009, 04:22:51 PM »
trainers are a egotistical lot and we like to show off our unique exercises to other trainers when they are working with there clients at the same time

how can you show off your fancy new one handed barbell snatch into a turkish get up when you are making your client use the pec dec instead ?

Your stuff never gets old. BTW, great hair. I forgot to comment on it on the separate thread (which deserved nothing less). The carefully crafted tousled look gives you a roguish almost swashbuckling look. A man who is no stranger to lethal sword play and swooning women.

Mr Nobody

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2009, 04:24:47 PM »
Your stuff never gets old. BTW, great hair. I forgot to comment on it on the separate thread (which deserved nothing less). The carefully crafted tousled look gives you a roguish almost swashbuckling look. A man who is no stranger to lethal sword play and swooning women.
Kinda reminds of a pirate without the eye patch ;D

slaveboy1980

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2009, 04:28:07 PM »
Because, it's almost always a closed-chain exercise, not an open one.

lol lots of bullshit in this thread..do you even know what closed chain exercise is? if your gonna try to sound fancy know what the fuck your talking about.

and no machines arent always inferior. absolute nonsense.

as long as you can load a muscle safely it doesnt matter if its a machine or free weights, and the theory about stabilizers is shit. does that mean that every machine is good, no as many are poorly contstructed but they (machines) arent inherently inferior to free weights. that being said i personally use both machines and free weights.

you guys need to realize that machines and free weights are tools used to LOAD the muscle.


slaveboy1980

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Re: THIS..is a gym!
« Reply #99 on: December 31, 2009, 04:32:04 PM »
if you wanna discuss machines vs free weight exercise you need to

(1) specify exactly what machine and which free weight exercise you are talking about

and realize

(2) that people have different structure, strength levels , strength curves, pre existing injuries etc...all these need to be taken into consideration when comparing benefits of a certain machine vs certain free weight exercise