Author Topic: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter  (Read 61594 times)

BodyProSite

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #125 on: February 03, 2010, 05:43:22 PM »
Its an example of just because you live in a deed state doesn't really mean anything, the government can come in and take it from you faster than you could take candy from a baby, even in a residential area.  In your posts you gave the impression that as long as you have a deed  its yours, when indeed it can be swept out from under you quite easily.  I lived in Arlington when it all was going down alot of people got royally fucked , and same with the Texas motor speedway when brutan smith wanted to buy up that land and build on it. I am not saying that is communism specifically however they are examples that really you don't own things at all, and an example of how government can take things.

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #126 on: February 03, 2010, 05:44:28 PM »
I was referring to the Obama Admin because I've never seen you rant about any other administration leading us toward communism besides the current one.

Communism is where the state owns the means of production and all the property.  This list includes 10 items from the Communist Manifesto that were prior conditions for a transition from capitalism to communism.  The first item was the "Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes".  Would you like me to address your GM bondholders example or do you want to give me something better?


Why are you ignoring the many examples myself bodypro dumpling have already gave showing how the govt has effectively rendered your "ownership" of property a sham and not absolute?  

BTW - I have voiced my beefs with GWB MANY times.  If you want to start a thread about that fine.  

As for the list, its not a progression in that 1 must follow 2 must follow 3.

Clearly many on your list have already been accomplished.  Now, do you want to discuss the income tax?  


Straw Man

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #127 on: February 03, 2010, 05:50:01 PM »
Its an example of just because you live in a deed state doesn't really mean anything, the government can come in and take it from you faster than you could take candy from a baby, even in a residential area.  In your posts you gave the impression that as long as you have a deed  its yours, when indeed it can be swept out from under you quite easily.  I lived in Arlington when it all was going down alot of people got royally fucked , and same with the Texas motor speedway when brutan smith wanted to buy up that land and build on it. I am not saying that is communism specifically however they are examples that really you don't own things at all, and an example of how government can take things.

my point of a "deed state" was that I have title to my home which is currently secured by a deed of trust but I'm still the owner.  I can sell it, I can encumber it, I can gift it to my heirs.  I did not mean to imply that I could not be forced to sell if for some reason the govt wanted it.   

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #128 on: February 03, 2010, 05:55:14 PM »
they took it and gave a sweetheart deal to private parties.

it absolutely sucks (I grew up in Dallas and my whole family still lives in TX) but it's not an example of communism

No but it is an example where the govt is undermining private property rights and placing the needs and wishes of the govt over the individuals' rights in his "property". 

The expansion of eminent domain laws is very dangerous on many levels.   

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #129 on: February 03, 2010, 06:20:23 PM »
Why are you ignoring the many examples myself bodypro dumpling have already gave showing how the govt has effectively rendered your "ownership" of property a sham and not absolute?  

BTW - I have voiced my beefs with GWB MANY times.  If you want to start a thread about that fine.  

As for the list, its not a progression in that 1 must follow 2 must follow 3.

Clearly many on your list have already been accomplished.  Now, do you want to discuss the income tax?  

I don't recall you ever make the "commie /marxist" charge to Bush or anyone other than Obama and people in his administration but maybe I missed it.  How far back does this commie plot goe anyway?

We're not done with #1 yet.

I don't recall any specifc valid example other than your usual vomit of gripes including Cap and Trade, etc..

Give me your best example of what the Obama Admin (or however wide your Commie plot goes) is doing to abolish private property and seize all rents for the public use.

I've seen not one example to support that claim but perhaps I missed it (I had client meetings all afternoon) so please be so kind as to repeat it.  Try to remember that the basic definition of Communism is "is a social structure in which classes are abolished and property is commonly controlled"

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #130 on: February 03, 2010, 06:21:27 PM »
No but it is an example where the govt is undermining private property rights and placing the needs and wishes of the govt over the individuals' rights in his "property". 

The expansion of eminent domain laws is very dangerous on many levels.   

good - so we're in agreement that it's not an example of communism

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #131 on: February 03, 2010, 06:25:49 PM »
good - so we're in agreement that it's not an example of communism

Straw - these are a progression to collectivism/communism etc to where you may have private ownership in some theorectical way, but effectively, the govt controls and has an ownership interest in your property. 

And they are not going to come out and say:  "We hereby delare, this this the 3rd day of Feb. 2010 you no longer have private ownership rights in your property."

Things dont work that way.  Myself and other have given you plenty of examples already in how th government has irecxtly undermined your property rights.   

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #132 on: February 03, 2010, 06:38:42 PM »
Straw - these are a progression to collectivism/communism etc to where you may have private ownership in some theorectical way, but effectively, the govt controls and has an ownership interest in your property. 

And they are not going to come out and say:  "We hereby delare, this this the 3rd day of Feb. 2010 you no longer have private ownership rights in your property."

Things dont work that way.  Myself and other have given you plenty of examples already in how th government has irecxtly undermined your property rights.   

yet you still refuse to even restate one example

The Govt has been taking property that it wants since as long as there has been a govt (and long before Communism ever existed) so that one doesn't work

Is the bondholder example in the GM Chapter 11 the one you want to go with?

Is that really the example you want to use to convince me that I don't own my property and the govt will soon abolish my personal ownership of my property and/or seize my rental income should I chose to rent this property

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #133 on: February 03, 2010, 06:45:02 PM »
yet you still refuse to even restate one example

The Govt has been taking property that it wants since as long as there has been a govt (and long before Communism ever existed) so that one doesn't work

Is the bondholder example in the GM Chapter 11 the one you want to go with?

Is that really the example you want to use to convince me that I don't own my property and the govt will soon abolish my personal ownership of my property and/or seize my rental income should I chose to rent this property

Bro - re read the thread for fucks sake.  We gave you tons of examples already. 

s for Obama:

1.  Chrysler Bond holders screw job. 
2.  The idea to have the govt seize the property and rent it back to you.
3.  Takeover of Fannie/Freddy
4.  Retrofit Mandate in Crap & Tax bill. 
5.  National Building Code
6.  Attempted health care bill by cxontrolling your income via mandates to purchase private products, essentially seizing your property before you get to it. 
7.  GM takeover.
8.  Bank takeover. 
9.  Attempted health and energy takeover.
 

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #134 on: February 03, 2010, 06:57:56 PM »
Bro - re read the thread for fucks sake.  We gave you tons of examples already.  

s for Obama:

1.  Chrysler Bond holders screw job.  
2.  The idea to have the govt seize the property and rent it back to you.
3.  Takeover of Fannie/Freddy
4.  Retrofit Mandate in Crap & Tax bill.  
5.  National Building Code
6.  Attempted health care bill by cxontrolling your income via mandates to purchase private products, essentially seizing your property before you get to it.  
7.  GM takeover.
8.  Bank takeover.  
9.  Attempted health and energy takeover.
  


we're talking about the "abolition of real property in land" and the application of all rents of land to public purpsoses

what does Cap and Trade have to do with that?

what does the auto makers coming to capital hill and BEGGING for a public bailout have to do with that?

what does a proposal to let foreclosed homeowners being able to stay in their property have to do with that (you do know the differnence between someone in default on a mortgage and someone who is not right?)

what does the receivership of Fannie/Frieddie have to do with that

Are you starting to get the picture

We're talking about Abolishing private ownership in real property - remember the first thing on the list of things that mark the transition from capitalism to communism

Skip8282

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #135 on: February 03, 2010, 07:05:35 PM »

We're talking about Abolishing private ownership in real property - remember the first thing on the list of things that mark the transition from capitalism to communism


No, the argument from the begining is that we are moving in that direction.  And you've been given sufficient examples, but because you disagree you're trying to claim that the examples are not valid.  Classic move ala TheLuke.

Why not address #2?

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #136 on: February 03, 2010, 07:12:06 PM »

No, the argument from the begining is that we are moving in that direction.  And you've been given sufficient examples, but because you disagree you're trying to claim that the examples are not valid.  Classic move ala TheLuke.

Why not address #2?

the argument from the beginning is that these 10 things mark the transition from Capitalism to Communism

these are the things that have to occur

has anyone yet seen the abolition of property rights (I'm talking on a mass scale which we all know is what they were talking about and not Stadium deals etc..) and the confiscation of rents on private property to be applied toward the public purpose

I haven't seen anything like that so if no one else has either then we can move on to #2

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #137 on: February 03, 2010, 07:27:31 PM »
the argument from the beginning is that these 10 things mark the transition from Capitalism to Communism

these are the things that have to occur

has anyone yet seen the abolition of property right (I'm talking on a mass scale which we all know is what they were talking about and not Stadium deals etc..) and the confiscation of rents on private property to be applied toward the public purpose

I haven't seen anything like that so if no one else has either then we can move on to #2

Unreal Straw - its not an all or nothing list and we are already positive on a few of those items without question. 

And even on the 1st item, we have given you dozens of examples of the govt undermining property rights and  moving towards a more collectivist stance on all fronts via mandate, taxation, regulation, etc and yet you act blind to that?

Unreal.   

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #138 on: February 03, 2010, 07:35:28 PM »
the argument from the beginning is that these 10 things mark the transition from Capitalism to Communism

these are the things that have to occur

has anyone yet seen the abolition of property rights (I'm talking on a mass scale which we all know is what they were talking about and not Stadium deals etc..) and the confiscation of rents on private property to be applied toward the public purpose

I haven't seen anything like that so if no one else has either then we can move on to #2



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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #139 on: February 03, 2010, 08:03:23 PM »
Unreal Straw - its not an all or nothing list and we are already positive on a few of those items without question. 

And even on the 1st item, we have given you dozens of examples of the govt undermining property rights and  moving towards a more collectivist stance on all fronts via mandate, taxation, regulation, etc and yet you act blind to that?

Unreal.   

I still haven't seen one example from you on the "abolition of real property in land" and "the application of all rents of land to public purposes".  remember Marx and Engels wrote that this and the other 9 items were the prior conditions that would mark the transistion from capitlism to communism

it's a pretty simple statement

examples of eminent domain don't count since we've been doing that since the birth of our country and long before communism even existed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

you still haven't provide one valid example, much less a pattern, of the abolition of real property/applicatoin of rents for public purposes.......have you?



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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #140 on: February 03, 2010, 08:08:58 PM »
I still haven't seen one example from you on the "abolition of real property in land" and "the application of all rents of land to public purposes".  remember Marx and Engels wrote that this and the other 9 items were the prior conditions that would mark the transistion from capitlism to communism

it's a pretty simple statement

examples of eminent domain don't count since we've been doing that since the birth of our country and long before communism even existed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

you still haven't provide one valid example, much less a pattern, of the abolition of real property/applicatoin of rents for public purposes.......have you?




Bro - you are hopeless.  Seriously hopeless.  Dumpling and I gave you tons of examples and you ignore it where the govt is clearly unrming individual property rights to make it such that you dont own your own property. 

Additionsally, that book was written what 150 years ago?  If it was traslated into today's language and lingo pehaps they would not have used the same terminology. 

Regardless, you dont see not because its not there, but because you refuse to see anything whatsoever.     

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #141 on: February 03, 2010, 08:09:54 PM »
.

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #142 on: February 03, 2010, 08:13:05 PM »
Although Marx advocated the use of any means, especially including violent revolution, to bring about socialist dictatorship, he suggested ten political goals for developed countries such as the United States.  How far has the United States -- traditionally the bastion of freedom, free markets, and private property -- gone down the Marxist road to fulfill these socialist aims?  You be the judge.  The following are Marx's ten planks from his Communist Manifesto.


1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.

The courts have interpreted the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868) to give the government far more "eminent domain" power than was originally intended, Under the rubric of "eminent domain" and various zoning regulations, land use regulations by the Bureau of Land Managementproperty taxes, and "environmental" excuses, private property rights have become very diluted and private property in landis, vehicles, and other forms are seized almost every day in this country under the "forfeiture" provisions of the RICO statutes and the so-called War on Drugs..
 
 

 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

The 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913 (which some scholars maintain was never properly ratified), and various State income taxes, established this major Marxist coup in the United States many decades ago.  These taxes continue to drain the lifeblood out of the American economy and greatly reduce the accumulation of desperately needed capital for future growth, business starts, job creation, and salary increases.
 
 

 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Another Marxian attack on private property rights is in the form of  Federal & State estate taxes and other inheritance taxes, which have abolished or at least greatly diluted the right of private property owners to determine the disposition and distribution of their estates upon their death.  Instead, government bureaucrats get their greedy hands involved .
 
 

 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

We call it government seizures, tax liens, "forfeiture" Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process.
 
 

 5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

The Federal Reserve System, created by the Federal Reserve Act of Congress in 1913, is indeed such a "national bank" and it politically manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States.   This is exactly what Marx had in mind and completely fulfills this plank, another major socialist objective.   Yet, most Americans naively believe the U.S. of A. is far from a Marxist or socialist nation.
 
 

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.

In the U.S., communication and transportation are controlled and regulated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) established by the Communications Act of 1934 and the Department of Transportation and the Interstate Commerce Commission (established by Congress in 1887), and the Federal Aviation Administration as well as Executive orders 11490, 10999 -- not to mention various state bureaucracies and regulations. There is also the federal postal monopoly, AMTRAK and CONRAIL -- outright socialist (government-owned) enterprises.   Instead of free-market private enteprrise in these important industries, these fields in America are semi-cartelized through the government's regulatory-industiral complex.
 
 

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

While the U.S. does not have vast "collective farms" (which failed so miserably in the Soviet Union), we nevertheless do have a significant degree of government involvement in agriculture in the form of price support subsidies and acreage alotments and land-use controls.   The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Evironmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.
 
 

 8. Equal obligation of all to work.  Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000. And I almost forgot...The Equal Rights Amendment means that women should do all work that men do including the military and since passage it would make women subject to the draft.
 
 

 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

We call it the Planning Reorganization Act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136.
 
 

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

People are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" .
 
 


Straw Man

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #143 on: February 03, 2010, 08:48:35 PM »
333 - why don't you try answering the question in your own words

I already share your opinion on eminent domain and I also know there are huge problems with the drug seizure laws and agree with you there too and I might even agree with you on BLM too.

Obviously none of that stuff is Obama's fault but I've only heard you talk about him as the commie/marxist.  

how far back does your theory go?

who else is involved?

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #144 on: February 03, 2010, 09:00:31 PM »

Additionsally, that book was written what 150 years ago?  If it was traslated into today's language and lingo pehaps they would not have used the same terminology. 
    

do you think the phrase "real property in land" and "rents" are translation error and misunderstanding of parlance?

"abolition of real property in land" and the application of all rents of land to public purpsoses

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #145 on: February 04, 2010, 04:38:47 AM »
do you think the phrase "real property in land" and "rents" are translation error and misunderstanding of parlance?

"abolition of real property in land" and the application of all rents of land to public purpsoses


Straw if you want to play deaf dumb and blind, thats fine, however nearly everyone agrees, BUT YOU, that I have won this point. 

As for rents, you already pay rent to the govt for your "private property" in the form of property tax.  You dont pay the tax you lose your home and get foreclosed upon. 

You also dont really own your property since the government dictates many things you can and cant do on your alleged "private property."

Try any of the following on your property and see how much you really own:

1.  Walk around naked.
2.  Paint a huge swatika on your driveway.
3.  Try putting in a bathroom or improvement without paying the government the permit and license fee.
4.  Build a fence on the property line or within the setback footage. 
5.  Let your grass grow to three feet tall. 

Can we talk about progressive tax rates or do you insist on continuing to make a fool of yourself?   

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #146 on: February 04, 2010, 05:17:49 AM »
Straw read this wake the hell up Bro.  Stop spending so much time at DU!
________________________ ________________________ ____________________-

Communism in America - Alive & Kicking!

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The ten planks of the communist manifesto and how to apply them
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by Larry Warrick
Friday, September 26, 2008
Communism in America Alive and Kicking!


When considering taxation, there are three choices:

The Communist Manifesto was created by a man named Moses Mordecai Levi under the alias Karl Marx. There are ten planks to the Communist party platform, each covering distinct areas of government and society and providing for a self-perpetuating, mindless system whereby no other possible alternatives are considered or tolerated.

In this essay, I intend to show that though the cold war is indeed over, and with the United States of America still expending trillions of dollars a year to maintain its military industrial complex, Communism is still alive and well in the United States and is indeed thriving in the gradual implementation of the Ten Planks of Communism through Federal and State governments' social and industrial programs disguised as necessary or essential checks, balances and "fixes" on our "capitalist" society.

From the first steps toward the abolition of land ownership to the assumption of the parental responsibility of educating our children, this manifesto is being implemented before our very eyes, and the State educated populace, through no fault of their own, is blind to these changes and in many cases, unwittingly accepts their political leaders' assurances as being righteous and necessary. Let's consider each plank of this manifesto and consider how the designs of Communism are being achieved in the United States today.

First plank: "Abolition of all property and land ownership and the application of all rents for public purposes".

Property tax. The property owner has an equity position in real property (land) but is required to pay "rent" to the State or be forcibly deprived of the property in question by invocation of the fourth plank described later. Under this system, a person never really owns the property as he is required to pay the State to allow him to keep possession of it every year, thus implying that the State owns the property and allows the real owner to retain its utility upon payment of a yearly fee. This fee is then added to the general treasury funds and redistributed by government fiat to pay for other social, government and welfare* programs that the hapless property owner never sees and has no need or want of, including (this is not a misprint) the collection and enforcement of property taxes.


*Note that the word welfare, as used in this document, does not just refer to recipients of government welfare checks, but includes government funding of corporate welfare projects and enforcement of monopoly privilege or industry-specific restrictions (usually designed to eliminate open competition) used to repay political supporters, including the multi-trillion dollar military industrial complex.Second plank: "Heavy progressive income tax".

Internal Revenue Service. The federal government and many States require each adult to fill out a personal income tax form and remit a considerable portion of their earnings each year, based on their success in profiting from their efforts. Failure to do so will invoke sanctions under the fourth plank described later. Approximately 40% of the Federal Treasury income is derived from direct income taxation. These funds are then added to the general treasury and redistributed by government fiat to pay for Federal government enforcement ranging from social and welfare programs to maintaining an overseas empire, that the hapless taxpayer never sees and has no need or want of, including the collection and enforcement of direct income taxes (am I being redundant?). Interestingly enough, if the entire direct income system of taxation were abolished, Federal government receipts would still equal 1995 levels.

In the first two planks, we see that each property owning, working individual is required to pay taxes in order to retain ownership of personal property, asin the case of property taxes and maintain his personal liberty, asin the case of income taxes. Under this system, it is obvious that the State or Federal governments assume ownership of persons and their property, albeit on a partial basis. The average taxpayer works for approximately 6 months of the year in order to pay all of the required taxes and tariffs imposed by all branches of government, local and Federal. In other words, government assumes ownership of all that a person produces or owns and allows him to retain a government-designated portion of his property by fiat. Under a generous definition, we may call this theft; it is more properly described as slavery.

Third plank: "Abolition of all rights of inheritance".

Under the probate court system, the State assumes ownership of the estate, not the rightful heirs. A person who dies intestate (leaving no will or trust) effectively leaves his worldly possessions to be disposed by the State, which happily liquidates the assets and absorbs this income. The rightful heirs are then required to sue the State for possession of their rightful property, paying all fees and charges that in many cases are more than the value of the estate in question. If a person does leave a will, the State taxes the heirs based on the value of the estate before allowing transfer of assets. Once again, the State assumes ownership and allows transfer of a portion of rightfully owned property by fiat. In many cases, the heir is forced to sell off portions of the estate to pay the taxes.

Fourth plank: "Confiscation of property of all immigrants and rebels".

Tax rebels are routinely and methodically stripped of all rightful assets and deprived of their constitutional rights and personal liberty through the prison system. Those who challenge this system of taxation and imprisonment are subjected to lengthy and invasive inquiries and costly legal proceedings whereby they are given the impossible task of proving a negative, ie, that they are guilty until proven otherwise. The proceeds are then added to the general treasury and used to fund, amongst many other things, (you guessed it) IRS actions against tax rebels.

Fifth plank: "Centralization of credit by the creation of a national bank".

The Federal Reserve System. Since the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, debts of all descriptions are not paid in specie (gold or silver). The only legal tender is a fiat currency issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. Under this system, monetary policy is set by a cartel of central banking monopolists and implemented by government fiat. Money as we know it is simply created out of thin air by the use of the printing press or electronic transfer and the supply is then further inflated by a cartel of fractional reserve banks who create multiple simultaneous loans of the same funds and charge interest on money that they do not own and do not even have in their possession! In this way, a single dollar created by the Federal Reserve is used to pyramid loans to the tune of ten thousand dollars in the marketplace (once again, not a misprint). Besides having a destabilizing effect on the market through mal-investments (entrepreneurs borrow based on artificially low interest rates) thus causing needless bankruptcies, monetary inflation causes a chronic rise in the general pricing structure (more money chasing the same amount of goods causes prices to rise over time). Rising prices cause consumers to spend their earnings more quickly before the prices rise again, suppressing savings and artificially raising demand. In this way, through the central banking cartel, government controls and manipulates markets to its own ends and those of its political contributors, often to the detriment of the consumer, who is left with static wages and spiraling prices.

Sixth plank: "Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State".

US Department of Transportation and State equivalents. Haulage trucks are routinely forced to drive in and out of DOT scales to provide proof that they are not carrying more goods than the government allows and that they are carrying goods approved of by the government. Failure to stop at a designated weigh station and submit to search results in sanctions under the fourth plank above (rebellious behavior will not be tolerated). Sanctions are brought against any trucker or trucking company found to be in violation of any of the literally thousands of DOT laws and arbitrary standards. The added expense to ensure DOT compliance for industry is incalculable but runs into the billions or trillions of dollars every year. This added cost is passed to the consumer in the form of higher prices in the marketplace. Private vehicles are tagged with unique identifiers bearing the yearly rental fee sticker (car tax). A vehicle owner who refuses to pay the fee is deprived of his property (vehicle is towed) and disallowed from using the transportation system by having his license suspended until the tax is paid and all accompanying fees are satisfied, such as the towing and storage fee and license reinstatement fee. These taxes and fees are purportedly used for road maintenance and improvements, in practice, they are applied to the general treasury to await government fiat. Once again, honest people are burdened with a system of taxation that is to their detriment.

Seventh plank: "Government control of factories and the instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of wastelands and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan".

The Bureau of Land Management, Department of Agriculture, Environmental Protection Agency, Food and Drug Administration, their individual State equivalents and many other government bureaus, agencies and authorities are all part of the ideology that government is responsible for approving the placement of factories, operation of mines, quantity and quality of production from agriculture, declaration and operation of National Parks, etc, etc, etc. The list of examples of government interference in private enterprise under this plank is practically endless. For instance, the Department of Agriculture routinely pays farmers NOT to plant certain crops or even to leave the fields fallow in order to manipulate the commodities markets. More recently is the refusal of the United States Congress to allow oil exploration in the ANWAR region of Alaska because such activity may disturb a few moose! By interfering in the sovereign right of individuals to dispose of their possessions (including land) as they see fit, government distorts the marketplace and damages the interests of both producers and consumers.

Eighth plank: "Equal obligation of all to work, establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture".

By implementing the first two planks of the Communist Manifesto, government takes great strides to ensuring that this eighth plank is implemented. The requirement that taxes be paid on income, automobiles and real property each year has the effect of forcing many to work (if even part-time) simply to keep what they already own. Under the fifth plank, steady inflation of the money supply causes the (now familiar and almost un-remarked) chronic rise in prices, forcing yet more to work simply to maintain their present standard of living as the value of their fixed income is systematically eroded. Since this plank was written, agricultural technology has improved to the extent that a single operator is capable of achieving the work of many hundreds of manual workers of the nineteenth century. However, with the implementation of agricultural mechanization, we have seen the gradual decline of the family run farm so typical of the American way of life in favor of huge corporate farming interests with enormous presence in the Congressional lobby. Through farming subsidies in the amount of billions of dollars and protective tariffs, these industrial farming interests manipulate markets to their own advantage and to the detriment of consumers.

Ninth plank: "A combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equitable distribution of population over the country".

The Federal Emergency Management Agency assumes the risk associated with living in less desirable, or more dangerous, regions of the country. Those parts of the country prone to natural disasters such as wind, flood, earthquake, landslide, or other natural or man-made disaster; would be prohibitive to live in economically except that the federal government, through FEMA, assumes the risk for these natural occurrences, a function traditionally carried out by private insurance. The existence of FEMA gives previously untenable, disaster-prone land the illusion of viability, thus redistributing the population more evenly over the entire country. Under these conditions, natural phenomena such as hurricane Katrina, that a hundred years ago would have only impacted the lives of several thousand people and caused limited collateral damage, today has impacted the lives of hundreds of thousands and cost billions of dollars in collateral damage. It boggles the mind that after such an experience, the Federal government would not only provide financial and material support for those affected (a function much better left to private charity organizations), but encourages residents to rebuild on a hurricane-prone river delta that is slowly sinking further below sea level each year.

Tenth plank: "Free education for all children in public schools, abolition of children's factory labor in its present form and conform education to industrial productions".

On average, 75% of property taxes in any given State go to support the public school system. Parents are forced by law to tithe their children to the State education system or risk having them forcibly removed from the home by the State and placed in State-run foster homes, possibly never to be seen by their parents again! Children who are home-schooled are required to take State designated tests at given intervals and those who fail to meet the State-specified standard are forced into the public school system, once again, against the parents' wishes. This system forces homeowners (who may or may not even have any school-aged children) to subsidize the State educational requirements of their neighbors, and even that of people they have never even met and likely don't know exist! More and more, State education provides more emphasis on industry-driven content and less on the practical ability to solve issues of a moral or discerning nature. Ask any 5-year-old if it is wrong to steal and the majority will respond in the affirmative. Follow up and ask "why" and the waters get a little murkier. Some may say because Mommy or Daddy doesn't like it; some because the deprived party will get mad about it; some because the policeman will come and take you away; rarely will you hear that it is morally wrong to deprive someone of their rightful ownership and utility (natural law of property ownership). Some may blame the parent for this lapse: Bear in mind that the school-aged child spends half of his waking life in the public school system, where the moral responsibilities of natural law are not on the curriculum.


George Whorewell

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #147 on: February 04, 2010, 06:27:39 AM »
Jesus Christ-

You ask the man a question. He answers it in his own words on a dozen different occasions. You persist in the same line of questioning so he posts articles that outline the substance of his answers. You then respond by asking him to answer the question in his own words.

Straw give it up dude. Asked and answered ( about 20 times).


Soul Crusher

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #148 on: February 04, 2010, 06:33:31 AM »
Jesus Christ-

You ask the man a question. He answers it in his own words on a dozen different occasions. You persist in the same line of questioning so he posts articles that outline the substance of his answers. You then respond by asking him to answer the question in his own words.

Straw give it up dude. Asked and answered ( about 20 times).



And I even went into more depth on the question after pondering it some more and coming up with more evidence to boot! 


Straw Man

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Re: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter
« Reply #149 on: February 04, 2010, 08:42:54 AM »
Straw if you want to play deaf dumb and blind, thats fine, however nearly everyone agrees, BUT YOU, that I have won this point. 

As for rents, you already pay rent to the govt for your "private property" in the form of property tax.  You dont pay the tax you lose your home and get foreclosed upon. 

You also dont really own your property since the government dictates many things you can and cant do on your alleged "private property."

Try any of the following on your property and see how much you really own:

1.  Walk around naked.
2.  Paint a huge swatika on your driveway.
3.  Try putting in a bathroom or improvement without paying the government the permit and license fee.
4.  Build a fence on the property line or within the setback footage. 
5.  Let your grass grow to three feet tall. 

Can we talk about progressive tax rates or do you insist on continuing to make a fool of yourself?   

you're joking right

you think "rents" is simply property tax

so you think "the application of all rents of land to public purposes" refers to charging property tax?  I guess we've been on the road to communism since the first property tax then.

how does the requirement of a building permit for a bathroom remodel = the abolition of real property in land and the application of all rents to public purposes

you've failed in any way to show evidence of #1 on that list

Communism means the state owns the means of production, no private property, etc....

this is simple stuff man

you think a few emient domain cases and the fact that I need to get a building permit or the fact that I have to cut my grass is evidence of #1 on that list?