Is There Anything God Can't Do?

[MCWAY]

...so, why do you dismiss the thousands of other gods, again? Epic evasion.

More like lack of reading comprehension on your part. In case you missed it, at the very least, I can cite these other deities as little more than demons, or fallen angels under Satan's rule. After all, The NT has Jesus casting out such demons (which would be other supernatural entities). What are the odds that these entities could easily act in the role of OT-mentioned gods like Baal, Molech, or Dagon?

Such is hardly a dismissal.

You, McWay, are simply afraid to explain why you dismiss all these other gods and goddesses; deities and demigods because ANY argument you make would equally disqualify your own personal favorite god.

Wrong again!! And the reasons for that have been discussed ad nauseum, including (but not limited to) the historical data, verifying the existence and ministry of Jesus Christ, as well as those of Old Testament prophecies and events.

Virtually NONE of that holds for these other "deities".

It's just that simple... you'll argue any other point, nitpick any trivial piece of minutiae, but in the end, you ARE "the best caller of the day".

The Luke

The point I argued is that your claim of a Christian being an atheist, because of dismissing other deities is just plain DUMB. An atheist believes that there is NO deity, no GOD. A Christian does not fit that category, as he believes in ONE God. That disqualifies him from being an atheist, just as my oft-used analogy of a mother who bears just ONE child, disqualifies her from being childless or barren.

As for these clowns on this video, chalk that up as more slapstick. Is this the best you can do? Even Deicide came up with better stuff than this.

[MCWAY]

MCWAY won't answer your question The Luke as he seems to not be able to understand that there is a question being posed. Or perhaps he feigns this misunderstanding and lack of comprehension due to the fact he knows any answer he gives will support the opposing side of the argument, as any means of invalidating another religion or deity can then be used to invalidate his own.

Not really!!! Give me a prophecy of Dagon that has come to pass!!! Heard any Molech prophecies, as of late?

At last check, the Lord gave the prophet Jeremiah a prophecy as to when Nebuchadnezzar's empire would come to an end. I don't recall the Babylonian gods being able to stop that from being fulfilled.

And Zeus certainly didn't keep Alexandar the Great, from dying a premature death and having his empire SPLIT into four parts (which Daniel predicted would happen over TWO CENTURIES prior).

But, that's just the short list.

He seems stuck on the fact that Christians are not one form of Atheists, which still doesn't answer the question being posed and is merely a digression of the topic at hand. Digression itself seems to be the topic of this thread. lol

Again, why one deity over another MCWAY? It's a simple question.

To which, simple answers have been given, more than once and on more than one thread.

And, in case you missed it, the topic of this thread is actually "Is there anything that God Can't Do?". That title, in an of itself, indicates that people believe in God, which would obviously take them OUT of the atheist category.

I don't know why you can't grasp that simple concept. But, that's your proverbial cross to bear. Why I or anyone else believes that there's a God makes no difference in this matter. Whether you think my reasons (stated or unstated) are "logical" or "rational" makes no difference either, in this regard.

Either you believe there's a God or you don't. I believe there is God. Therefore, try as I might, I just can't be an atheist.

[MCWAY]

exactly...I believe in one less god than they do that is all...The reason they dismiss all the other gods is the same reason I dismiss theres....

Oh really!!

So you dismiss God, because of historical evidence that Dagon's prophecies (or those of Zeus or Baal) have come to pass?

Or, because despite mass persecution of its followers, the Molechian faith is alive and well, with milllions worldwide being baptized and worshipping Molech, by passing their sons and daughters through the fire?

Or, because of all the wonderful humanitarian efforts and innovations, inspired by those called by Ashoreth to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and comfort the afflicted?

Is THAT WHY you dismiss God?

EXACTLY!!!! 

[The Luke]

In case you missed it, at the very least, I can cite these other deities as little more than demons, or fallen angels under Satan's rule. After all, The NT has Jesus casting out such demons (which would be other supernatural entities). What are the odds that these entities could easily act in the role of OT-mentioned gods like Baal, Molech, or Dagon?

...and Yahweh couldn't be one of these fallen angels because...?

You can't claim that his precogniscence of future events qualifies him as authentic, not when the Delphic Oracle; Tezcaplipoca, the Incan deities; the Spartan Ephors; even Setanta here in Ireland ALL made prophetic predictions which came true as a matter of historical record.


Just look at the evidence: YOU believe the entire ancient pantheon of gods to be fallen angels or evil jinn masquerading as gods... while at the same time YOU believe an angry thundercloud who orders RAPE; MURDER; SLAVERY and GENOCIDE to be the one true god.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Obviously, whatever criteria you are using to dismiss Dagon; Baal and company as fallen angels would equally expose Yahweh as the same.

Come on... "By their deeds shall ye know them"; so surely a raping enslaving mass murderer qualifies as a false god too?


Oh, and just for the record, the assertion that the other biblical gods can be explained as fallen angels attempting to pervert the destiny of mankind originates with Milton's "Paradise Lost" and is not a Christian teaching... Yahweh himself recognises the authenticity of other gods in the Old Testament, he does not claim to be the one true god... just to be the one true god of the Israelites.

Oh, and also just for the record, Jesus predicted that some of his contemporaries would live to see the coming of the kingdom of heaven on earth... guess he got that one wrong, unless you subscribe to the Early Christian dogma which details how some of the disciples became immortal and wander the land even to this day?


Besides, if you believe in fallen angels; jinn and other supernatural entities... you are a polytheist.


The Luke

[MCWAY]

...and Yahweh couldn't be one of these fallen angels because...?

Fallen angels are the one who defied God. It’s awfully hard for God to be one of those.

You can't claim that his precogniscence of future events qualifies him as authentic, not when the Delphic Oracle; Tezcaplipoca, the Incan deities; the Spartan Ephors; even Setanta here in Ireland ALL made prophetic predictions which came true as a matter of historical record.

And, this historical record would be.......

Yet, for some odd reason, the followers of these deities benefitted little from these prophecies. As a matter of fact, where are the followers of those deities?

Just look at the evidence: YOU believe the entire ancient pantheon of gods to be fallen angels or evil jinn masquerading as gods... while at the same time YOU believe an angry thundercloud who orders RAPE; MURDER; SLAVERY and GENOCIDE to be the one true god.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Why are you complaining about that (notwithstanding that half of what you claim is bogus)? Remember, per atheist rules, morality is FLUID. Therefore, all it takes is justification and rationale for such actions.

Obviously, whatever criteria you are using to dismiss Dagon; Baal and company as fallen angels would equally expose Yahweh as the same.

Wrong again!! See above!!

Come on... "By their deeds shall ye know them"; so surely a raping enslaving mass murderer qualifies as a false god too?

Once again, by whose rules are you playing? You don’t make the declaration that morality is fluid then whine when someone exercises such alleged fluid morality, even at someone else’s expense.

Oh, and just for the record, the assertion that the other biblical gods can be explained as fallen angels attempting to pervert the destiny of mankind originates with Milton's "Paradise Lost" and is not a Christian teaching... Yahweh himself recognises the authenticity of other gods in the Old Testament, he does not claim to be the one true god... just to be the one true god of the Israelites.

Oh, and also just for the record, Jesus predicted that some of his contemporaries would live to see the coming of the kingdom of heaven on earth... guess he got that one wrong, unless you subscribe to the Early Christian dogma which details how some of the disciples became immortal and wander the land even to this day?

He said nothing of the sort.

Besides, if you believe in fallen angels; jinn and other supernatural entities... you are a polytheist.

The Luke

Wrong again!!! Acknowledging their existence and worshipping such are two separate items altogether. I acknowledge that Christ cast out demons. Yet, I have no shrines and pay no homage to "Legion" or Beelzebub.

NEXT!!!!

[big L dawg]

Oh really!!

So you dismiss God, because of historical evidence that Dagon's prophecies (or those of Zeus or Baal) have come to pass?

Or, because despite mass persecution of its followers, the Molechian faith is alive and well, with milllions worldwide being baptized and worshipping Molech, by passing their sons and daughters through the fire?

Or, because of all the wonderful humanitarian efforts and innovations, inspired by those called by Ashoreth to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and comfort the afflicted?

Is THAT WHY you dismiss God?

EXACTLY!!!!  

I'll tell you what else I dismiss...you as a Christian...The way you address people is anything but how a Christian would respond...Your post's are often litered with elementary name calling and the discontempt you show boarders on outright hate for anyone that believes different than you do...
I know a few honest to goodness Christians that not only talk the talk but walk the walk.And they would never address people in the manner in which you do...they still enter in debate on the different subjects of religion but manage to leave out the discontempt,name calling and sarcastic tone that your post's are full of...They respond with "I will be praying for you"Something that if you have posted I have never seen & is few and far bettween.Your arrogance and holier than thou attitude along with constantly talking down to people is a liability to your faith and serenity...Your demeanor does your Religion a disservice...

I'm sure your ego & pride will serve to deflect and dismiss this post...As I am sure you will respond with a witty post that lets me no what a buffoon you think I am...It's OK...This is merely a defense mechanism to protect your ideals and beliefs...If I was a religious person I would pray for you...

[The Luke]

Fallen angels are the one who defied God. It’s awfully hard for God to be one of those.

...why? We only have Yahweh's word for it. I'm sure Dagon told his followers he was the one true god too.

Yet, for some odd reason, the followers of these deities benefitted little from these prophecies. As a matter of fact, where are the followers of those deities?

...but having 700 million followers is a triumph? There are 6.6 billion people on this planet, Yahweh's only infected 11%. So Atheismo is catching him up pretty quickly (100 million followers in Europe alone, and growing even faster than Christianity is withering away).

Why are you complaining about that (notwithstanding that half of what you claim is bogus)? Remember, per atheist rules, morality is FLUID. Therefore, all it takes is justification and rationale for such actions.

...are you arguing that rape; incest; slavery; murder and genocide were actually MORAL when Yahweh indulged in them? That's pretty fucked up.

Once again, by whose rules are you playing? You don’t make the declaration that morality is fluid then whine when someone exercises such alleged fluid morality, even at someone else’s expense.

...how can you maintain that Baal is merely a fallen angel because he ordered infanticide, when Yahweh ordered the very same crimes?

He said nothing of the sort.

...better check your scripture, there are reams of Christian Apologist theorising on this very subject: Jesus' failed prophecy.

Wrong again!!! Acknowledging their existence and worshipping such are two separate items altogether. I acknowledge that Christ cast out demons. Yet, I have no shrines and pay no homage to "Legion" or Beelzebub.

...how can you be sure Yahweh isn't one of these evil fallen angels? He ordered rape; incest; slavery; murder and genocide? Even Jesus (morally far superior to his Dad) didn't speak out against the forcibly arranged marriages or chattel slavery ubiquitous in his time.

What makes your amoral mass-murdering sociopathic thundercloud so superior to these other ghouls? He sounds like a real fucking asshole to me...


The Luke

[Oldschool Flip]

Well, being I'm leaving now, I guess it will be appropriate to give the answer! "What can't God do?"

God CAN'T DIE!. You see, even if God Himself, wanted to die, He couldn't. The Scriptures indicate this to be one of His qualities. So, whether He is omni this, or omni that, doesn't make a bit of difference in the world. God can't die! This is one of the reasons Christians have the HOPE we do. We know, nothing can destroy our God! He is eternal!. Not a bad prospect to put your future/hope in. So long and may you find the truth! Peace!




Government_Controlled/Dea_Agent

So according to this statement, jesus then never sacraficed himself because he knew he couldn't die. Which makes the resurrection BS because resurrection has to have a dead being.

[MCWAY]

I'll tell you what else I dismiss...you as a Christian...The way you address people is anything but how a Christian would respond...Your post's are often litered with elementary name calling and the discontempt you show boarders on outright hate for anyone that believes different than you do...
I know a few honest to goodness Christians that not only talk the talk but walk the walk.And they would never address people in the manner in which you do...they still enter in debate on the different subjects of religion but manage to leave out the discontempt,name calling and sarcastic tone that your post's are full of...They respond with "I will be praying for you"Something that if you have posted I have never seen & is few and far bettween.Your arrogance and holier than thou attitude along with constantly talking down to people is a liability to your faith and serenity...Your demeanor does your Religion a disservice...

Dead wrong and painfully silly as usual, L Dawg.

I don't have comtempt for people who believe differently from me. In fact, I've had very cordial discussions with people whose believe are quite different.

What I don't do, however, is stand for people like you, taking potshots at people of faith and their beliefs, only to whimper and cry, when their feeble takes get torn apart.

I'm sure your ego & pride will serve to deflect and dismiss this post...As I am sure you will respond with a witty post that lets me no what a buffoon you think I am...It's OK...This is merely a defense mechanism to protect your ideals and beliefs...If I was a religious person I would pray for you...

A defense mechanism would imply that your substance-lacking one-liners (or that of Luke or anyone else) is actually a threat to my beliefs, which is hardly the case.

And, speaking of deflections, you make the silly claim that you dismiss God for the EXACT same reasons that I allegedly dismiss other gods. Yet, when pressed with the actual questions, guess what you did.......DEFLECT!!

So which is it? DO you dismiss God, for the same reasons you claim that I (or any other Christian) dismiss other gods, or NOT?

Of course, it would help if you actually listed some actual reasons for YOUR dismissal (some original ones, at least), instead of parroting someone else's lines, which is something you're notorious for doing.

[MCWAY]

...why? We only have Yahweh's word for it. I'm sure Dagon told his followers he was the one true god too.

So, where is Dagon, or his followers to speak on his behalf? Plus, if we "only have Yahweh's word for it", I guess we know who won that matchup.

...but having 700 million followers is a triumph? There are 6.6 billion people on this planet, Yahweh's only infected 11%. So Atheismo is catching him up pretty quickly (100 million followers in Europe alone, and growing even faster than Christianity is withering away).

Atheismo is hardly even close. Christianity has been supposedly withering away for nearly TWO MILLENIA. Yet, here it stands, alive and well.

...are you arguing that rape; incest; slavery; murder and genocide were actually MORAL when Yahweh indulged in them? That's pretty fucked up.

Read what I actually posted. Your Atheismo claims that morality is "fluid". Therefore, if man decided that the aforementioned items are "right" and "moral", you should have no issue with it. He is simply following what he feels is right.

Add to the fact that, per Scripture, rape was a capital offense as was murder, your statement makes even less sense than your standard fare.

As for your claims of "slavery" and "genocide", we've beaten that ad nauseum. The former, in actuality, is servitude with rules and regulation that allow those who serve to rise in social status and is HARDLY the chattel form of slavery, for which the term is most associated.

And the claims of genocide are also hollow, as this was military action, against unrepentant enemies (committing some of the very things about which you were whining, not too long ago).

Said another way, if the followers of Molech are kidnapping people, raping women, and passing their daughters through the fire, WHO EXACTLY IS GOING TO STOP THEM? If you say "pretty please" to Team Molech and they continue their ways (attacking you in the process), what actions are to be taken to get them to cease and desist?

...how can you maintain that Baal is merely a fallen angel because he ordered infanticide, when Yahweh ordered the very same crimes?

Did American order "infanticide" when dropping the A-Bomb on Japan? I'm quite sure some babies died when Nagasaki went KA-BOOM!!

...better check your scripture, there are reams of Christian Apologist theorising on this very subject: Jesus' failed prophecy.

Which would be what? Once again, you have this nasty habit of talking out the side of your neck, making claims that you can't back.

...how can you be sure Yahweh isn't one of these evil fallen angels? He ordered rape; incest; slavery; murder and genocide? Even Jesus (morally far superior to his Dad) didn't speak out against the forcibly arranged marriages or chattel slavery ubiquitous in his time.

One, I already answered that question. Two, at no time did God order rape or incest. And I've already discussed your cracked claims of slavery, murder, and genocide.

The rest of your quips are equally hollow. Any chattel slavery was imposed BY THE ROMANS, not the Jewish people. As for forcibly arranged marriages, that is yet more historically inaccurate drivel on your part.

Of course, there still remains the question of why YOU are complaining about arranged marriage OR chattel slavery, since PER YOUR ATHEISTIC RULES, morality is fluid and the Romans thought chattel slavery was right.

What makes your amoral mass-murdering sociopathic thundercloud so superior to these other ghouls? He sounds like a real fucking asshole to me...


The Luke

By whose standards? Yet again, you keep avoiding the fact that, per atheistic creed, MORALITY IS FLUID. You have no standard against which to make such a claim, or even to claim that YOUR form of morality is superior to that of another man (let alone that of God).

[The Luke]

Add to the fact that, per Scripture, rape was a capital offense as was murder, your statement makes even less sense than your standard fare.

...defending rape.

As for your claims of "slavery" and "genocide", we've beaten that ad nauseum. The former, in actuality, is servitude with rules and regulation that allow those who serve to rise in social status and is HARDLY the chattel form of slavery, for which the term is most associated.

...defending slavery.

And the claims of genocide are also hollow, as this was military action, against unrepentant enemies (committing some of the very things about which you were whining, not too long ago).

...defending genocide.

...at no time did God order rape or incest.

...defending both rape and incest.

Any chattel slavery was imposed BY THE ROMANS, not the Jewish people. As for forcibly arranged marriages, that is yet more historically inaccurate drivel on your part.

...defending both slavery and forced marriages.



What does Christianity do to people that they don't realise the bullshit it has them rationalising?

McWay's defence here is that Atheism subscribes to a fluid morality therefore an atheist cannot criticise the rape; slavery; murder; infanticide and genocide so prevalent in the Bible.

Sorry to break this to you McWay, but study after study have shown that atheists are THE most moral and law-abiding sector of every population... they do NOT subscribe to the idea of fluid morality that you ascribe to them. In fact, they base their (superior) morality on the tenets of logic and rational altruism.

Yes, atheists do allow their morality to EVOLVE... but seeing as you dismiss evolution just as you dismiss basic morality, I don't see how I can explain that to you.


Facts are facts:
-the Bible condones forced marriages
-the Bible both condones and codifies rape, incest and even forced incest
-the Bible both condones and codifies slavery, and it's chattel slavery for non-Jews
-the Bible both condones and codifies genocide and infanticide

...if you don't believe these simple facts, try reading the Bible.

What can't God do? Behave morally.


The Luke

[MCWAY]

...defending rape.

What part of "rape was a CAPITAL OFFENSE" (i.e. the max penalty was DEATH) don't you understand?

...defending slavery.
...defending genocide.
...defending both rape and incest.
...defending both slavery and forced marriages.


What does Christianity do to people that they don't realise the bullshit it has them rationalising?

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you are sniveling about this stuff (nothwithstanding that your claims are most inaccurate), if morality is so "fluid".

McWay's defence here is that Atheism subscribes to a fluid morality therefore an atheist cannot criticise the rape; slavery; murder; infanticide and genocide so prevalent in the Bible.

It's awfully hard for atheists to start blubbering about such after stating that, per their own rules.....well.....there are basically NO RULES. Each can define "right" and "wrong" as he sees fit. That's being "fluid".

Lost in all this is the "measuring stick" of morality, that is the guiding light for the godless crew.

Sorry to break this to you McWay, but study after study have shown that atheists are THE most moral and law-abiding sector of every population... they do NOT subscribe to the idea of fluid morality that you ascribe to them. In fact, they base their (superior) morality on the tenets of logic and rational altruism.

Tell that to the folks who lived under Stalin, Mao, and Hitler: Guys who were so MORAL that atheists (in a humorous attempt at revisionist history) distance themselves AS FAR AS POSSIBLE from them, even trying to claim that they were Christians.

Yes, atheists do allow their morality to EVOLVE... but seeing as you dismiss evolution just as you dismiss basic morality, I don't see how I can explain that to you.

This has ZILCH to do with evolution. And, as usual, you just shot yourself in the foot. See the aforementioned leaders. Their morality "evolved" too, and the results weren't pretty.

Facts are facts:
-the Bible condones forced marriages

NOPE!!! Big difference, between arranged and forced.

-the Bible both condones and codifies rape, incest and even forced incest

You missed on that one, too. Those laws are covered in Leviticus.

Incest:

Lev. 18: 6-10

None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.  

The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.  

The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.  

The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.  

The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

-the Bible both condones and codifies slavery, and it's chattel slavery for non-Jews

So sorry!!! Chattel slavery is barred. And, all the attributes, associated with chattel slavery, were outlawed and punishable by several means.....INCLUDING DEATH!!!

-the Bible both condones and codifies genocide and infanticide.

The Bible no more condones genocide or infanticide, than this country did when Japan got hit with the A-bomb.

...if you don't believe these simple facts, try reading the Bible.

I have, which is why I can tear apart these silly claims of yours......OH WAIT!!!! I've been doing that for years.

What can't God do? Behave morally.


The Luke

For all your bloviating, you have yet to answer the simple question, regarding the moral standard from which you claim God can't adhere. And, if you keep spouting off about the fluidity of morality, your claims are simply hollow.

Plus, you also missed answering exactly what was to be done about folks like those who followed Molech (i.e. passing their daughters through the fire, raping, and kidnapping people).

Who's going to STOP THEM?

[The Luke]

Sorry, but I'm confused.

Did Yahweh order forced marriages?... yes.
Did Yahweh enforce incestuous relationships?... yes.
Did Yahweh condone and codify rape?... yes.
Did Yahweh condone and codify slavery?... yes. Was it chattel slavery?... among non-Jews, yes, yes it was.
Did Yahweh order infanticide?... yes, several times.
Did Yahweh order genocide?... yes, several times.

Absolutely NONE of this is contested by Bible scholars.

So I don't understand your argument...?


Are you contesting that these acts are actually detailed in the Bible...? I don't see how you could argue that, it's there for everyone to read in black and white.

Are you asserting that these acts were somehow moral when Yahweh committed them?

Or are you arguing that these acts are somehow moral because it was Yahweh who committed them?


I don't get it. All I read in your posts is the rambling of someone struggling with chronic cognitive dissonance.


The Luke

[MCWAY]

Sorry, but I'm confused.

Did Yahweh order forced marriages?... yes.

NOPE!!!

Did Yahweh enforce incestuous relationships?... yes.

NOPE!! See Leviticus 18, cited earlier (and 20).

Did Yahweh condone and codify rape?... yes.

NOPE!! See Deut. 22:25:

But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

As stated earlier, rape was a CAPITAL offense.

Did Yahweh condone and codify slavery?... yes. Was it chattel slavery?... among non-Jews, yes, yes it was.

Try again!!

Lev. 19:34

But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Lev. 25:47-48

And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family. After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:  

Oh dear!!! NON-JEWS having position of influence and wealth, not being treated as chattel. In fact, such was specifically forbidden in Israel, as God CONSTANTLY REMINDED His people about how harshly they were treated in Egypt. That’s the reason they were to be kind to those non-Jews within their land.

Did Yahweh order infanticide?... yes, several times.
Did Yahweh order genocide?... yes, several times.

As stated earlier, that is no more infanticide or genocide than was dropping of the A-bomb on the Japanese.

Notwithstanding that, again one has to wonder why you’re whining about that, since you subscribe to that “fluid” morality of atheism.

Absolutely NONE of this is contested by Bible scholars.

That's another utterly false statement, no doubt made due to your rather selective memory, regarding Bible scholars.

So I don't understand your argument...?

Oh, I believe you understand it quite well.

Are you contesting that these acts are actually detailed in the Bible...? I don't see how you could argue that, it's there for everyone to read in black and white.

I've given the details and have shown, in black-and-white, that they are hardly as you so pitifully described them.

Are you asserting that these acts were somehow moral when Yahweh committed them?

Or are you arguing that these acts are somehow moral because it was Yahweh who committed them?

My statements are quite clear. Virtually all of your claims are either categorically FALSE or woefully incomplete.

Since God is the Creator, He has the final say on what is done with what is HIS.

Furthermore, you're in no position to bleat about it, especially with your "fluid morality" atheistic mantra. Not to mention you HAVE YET TO GIVE any standard off which to bounce "right" and "wrong" behavior.

I don't get it. All I read in your posts is the rambling of someone struggling with chronic cognitive dissonance.


The Luke

Once again, you get what I'm saying. Since it refutes your claims quite handily, you've resorted to playing dumb.

[Necrosis]

What part of "rape was a CAPITAL OFFENSE" (i.e. the max penalty was DEATH) don't you understand?

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you are sniveling about this stuff (nothwithstanding that your claims are most inaccurate), if morality is so "fluid".

It's awfully hard for atheists to start blubbering about such after stating that, per their own rules.....well.....there are basically NO RULES. Each can define "right" and "wrong" as he sees fit. That's being "fluid".

Lost in all this is the "measuring stick" of morality, that is the guiding light for the godless crew.



Tell that to the folks who lived under Stalin, Mao, and Hitler: Guys who were so MORAL that atheists (in a humorous attempt at revisionist history) distance themselves AS FAR AS POSSIBLE from them, even trying to claim that they were Christians.

This has ZILCH to do with evolution. And, as usual, you just shot yourself in the foot. See the aforementioned leaders. Their morality "evolved" too, and the results weren't pretty.


NOPE!!! Big difference, between arranged and forced.

You missed on that one, too. Those laws are covered in Leviticus.

Incest:

Lev. 18: 6-10

None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.  

The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.  

The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.  

The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.  

The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.


So sorry!!! Chattel slavery is barred. And, all the attributes, associated with chattel slavery, were outlawed and punishable by several means.....INCLUDING DEATH!!!

The Bible no more condones genocide or infanticide, than this country did when Japan got hit with the A-bomb.


I have, which is why I can tear apart these silly claims of yours......OH WAIT!!!! I've been doing that for years.


For all your bloviating, you have yet to answer the simple question, regarding the moral standard from which you claim God can't adhere. And, if you keep spouting off about the fluidity of morality, your claims are simply hollow.

Plus, you also missed answering exactly what was to be done about folks like those who followed Molech (i.e. passing their daughters through the fire, raping, and kidnapping people).

Who's going to STOP THEM?

hitler was not an atheist, but lets say he was as were the others. Atheism has no logical in roads to perform acts of violence, it has no rules or guidelines. What they did was not in the name of atheism, because you can't do something in the name of a non-belief. It;s like saying because they all had mustaches they killed in the name of mustaches, which clarifies the ridiculousness of your statement. By the way this argument has be rebutted millions of times. You want a video with dawkins explaining the logic to you?

religion has logical inroads to violence and atrocities, atheism has no logical connection, none, fact.

[Dos Equis]

hitler was not an atheist, but lets say he was as were the others. Atheism has no logical in roads to perform acts of violence, it has no rules or guidelines. What they did was not in the name of atheism, because you can't do something in the name of a non-belief. It;s like saying because they all had mustaches they killed in the name of mustaches, which clarifies the ridiculousness of your statement. By the way this argument has be rebutted millions of times. You want a video with dawkins explaining the logic to you?

religion has logical inroads to violence and atrocities, atheism has no logical connection, none, fact.

Really?  If "you can't do something in the name of a non-belief," then why do atheists file lawsuits, have organizations, magazines, radio shows, websites, regular meetings, protests, and even "church" meetings? 

[SupplementGuy]

The answer to the OP's question is found at Titus 1:2 'upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God, who cannot lie, promised before times long lasting,' ...

The answer to the Jesus couldn't sacrifice himself and still resurrect himself is simple. Jesus is not GOD, he is God's son. They are not the same person. Jesus presented his sacrifice to God, Jehovah, in heaven after his resurrection as a purchase price for each of us, sinful mankind.

SG

[The Luke]

I'm not really interested in this game of scriptural quotation.

I make a claim with regard to something scriptural... nothing controversial, something considered common knowledge... and some Evangelical whack job (who knows right well which verses I'm referring to) jumps in quoting a scriptural passage that seemingly refutes my claim, but because I can't quote the common-knowledge verses from wrote memory: I must be wrong.

There's no forced incest in the Bible...? Please. The first thing this pervert thundercloud does is create only two human beings: (one cloned from the other) and pairs them up... just two people, and they're quasi-identical twins (same DNA). For her sins, Eve is forced to submit to Adam ever after (slavery) and God promises to strike down her children for generations to come.

So right away we have a forced marriage involving incest; slavery; infanticide and genocide... Could it be that McWay hasn't read the first page of Genesis?


My point stands... Yahweh ordered forced incest; forced marriages; chattel slavery; rape; murder; infanticide and genocide.

None of that is disputed (except by McWay)... So what can't God do? Behave morally.


So this will be my last post in this delusional thread: Anyone who is interested can simply visit a site such as www.EvilBible.com and read the scriptural quotations for each and every one of Yahweh's many, many crimes:

http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm
...this covers all the instances of human sacrifice and infanticide in the Bible. There are too many to list them all here. Everything is quoted and referenced.

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
...this covers all the instances of rape; forced marriages; and sex slavery in the Bible. Again there are too many to list here. Everything is quoted and referenced.

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
...this covers not only Yahweh's murders and ordered murders, but also genocide and mass infanticide. Of course, there are way too many instances to list all of them here. Everything is quoted and referenced.

...and, I'm out.


The Luke

[YngiweRhoads]

I'm not really interested in this game of scriptural quotation.

Which is why I stopped following or participating this thread, except due to slightly different reasoning. While the bible does contain some historical accuracies it also contains many fallacies and historical inaccuracies. It is also open to interpretation by different religious sects and/or people, whom draw different conclusions and meanings from identical passages. It's too subjective.  It's difficult to take any person seriously who quotes the bible as fact and I'm not about to argue small parts of the bible without discussing the validity of the work as a whole.

[MCWAY]

I'm not really interested in this game of scriptural quotation.

Of course not!! You keep losing every time you play it.

I make a claim with regard to something scriptural... nothing controversial, something considered common knowledge... and some Evangelical whack job (who knows right well which verses I'm referring to) jumps in quoting a scriptural passage that seemingly refutes my claim, but because I can't quote the common-knowledge verses from wrote memory: I must be wrong.

You make a claim, referring to a verse in Scripture, which is blatantly FALSE. Now, I can simply say that you're full of BULL.....OR I can cite the specifics and tear your claim to pieces for all to see.

The rape claim is a prime example. I give the specifics, which show that rape was punishable by DEATH. And, you tuck tail. And, don't bother screaming about such only applying to betrothed women. Those who raped unbethroted women were sentenced to lifetime care of that woman. And, that hardly required the woman even living in the same house. More often than not, the victim stayed home with her family. Yet, the rapist was STILL ON THE HOOK for her material care (the only reason he's being kept alive).

There's no forced incest in the Bible...? Please. The first thing this pervert thundercloud does is create only two human beings: (one cloned from the other) and pairs them up... just two people, and they're quasi-identical twins (same DNA). For her sins, Eve is forced to submit to Adam ever after (slavery) and God promises to strike down her children for generations to come.

You must be on that stuff, again. If Eve were even half of what I pictured the ideal woman to be, I'm sure that Adam had to be dragged kicking and screaming to have sex with her.

So right away we have a forced marriage involving incest; slavery; infanticide and genocide... Could it be that McWay hasn't read the first page of Genesis?

Could it be that you're smoking crack?

My point stands... Yahweh ordered forced incest; forced marriages; chattel slavery; rape; murder; infanticide and genocide.

Correction: Your point falls, yet again. That's why you don't want to play the Scriptural quotation game, as you put it. You keep getting beat.....as usual.

None of that is disputed (except by McWay)... So what can't God do? Behave morally.


So this will be my last post in this delusional thread: Anyone who is interested can simply visit a site such as www.EvilBible.com and read the scriptural quotations for each and every one of Yahweh's many, many crimes:

Roughly translated: As usual, when my silly claims can't stand up to scrunity and are clearly shown to be false, inaccurate, and incomplete, I will run like a scalded dog and make all manner of excuses.

YAWN!!!!!

http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm
...this covers all the instances of human sacrifice and infanticide in the Bible. There are too many to list them all here. Everything is quoted and referenced.

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
...this covers all the instances of rape; forced marriages; and sex slavery in the Bible. Again there are too many to list here. Everything is quoted and referenced.

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
...this covers not only Yahweh's murders and ordered murders, but also genocide and mass infanticide. Of course, there are way too many instances to list all of them here. Everything is quoted and referenced.

...and, I'm out.


The Luke

I've already gone to work on silliness like this before. So, I will only cover specific items on requests. This mess isn't new, and neither is the information that refutes it. Let Luke tuck his tail and run, as usual.

[MCWAY]

hitler was not an atheist, but lets say he was as were the others. Atheism has no logical in roads to perform acts of violence, it has no rules or guidelines. What they did was not in the name of atheism, because you can't do something in the name of a non-belief. It;s like saying because they all had mustaches they killed in the name of mustaches, which clarifies the ridiculousness of your statement. By the way this argument has be rebutted millions of times. You want a video with dawkins explaining the logic to you?

religion has logical inroads to violence and atrocities, atheism has no logical connection, none, fact.

And, yet we have violence and atrocities, committed by atheists, that make the Crusades look like a catfight at Hooters.

Atheism has guidelines, as has been shown by at least one poster here. Among those guidelines is that morality is "fluid". In other words, man is his own moral compass. So, why do atheists have such a problem when that mindset gets taken to its ultimate conclusion, resulting in bodies piling up by the millions?

Said another way (which I've stated from the get-go), at its core, atheism is simply man worshipping himself.

[Necrosis]

Really?  If "you can't do something in the name of a non-belief," then why do atheists file lawsuits, have organizations, magazines, radio shows, websites, regular meetings, protests, and even "church" meetings? 

um it is usually against constitutional rights being trampled on.Again atheism has no logical in roads to violence, none, unlike religion.


organizations that push there religious agenda on the public, like putting relgious symbols on gov property deserved to be sued, they have to be checked otherwise they would trample peoples constitutional rights.

FAIL.

[Dos Equis]

um it is usually against constitutional rights being trampled on.Again atheism has no logical in roads to violence, none, unlike religion.


organizations that push there religious agenda on the public, like putting relgious symbols on gov property deserved to be sued, they have to be checked otherwise they would trample peoples constitutional rights.

FAIL.

O.K.  You addressed lawsuits.  What about atheist organizations, magazines, radio shows, websites, regular meetings, protests, and even "church" meetings?  How do you reconcile the fact they have all these things with your contention that "you can't do something in the name of a non-belief"?

[Necrosis]

And, yet we have violence and atrocities, committed by atheists, that make the Crusades look like a catfight at Hooters.

Atheism has guidelines, as has been shown by at least one poster here. Among those guidelines is that morality is "fluid". In other words, man is his own moral compass. So, why do atheists have such a problem when that mindset gets taken to its ultimate conclusion, resulting in bodies piling up by the millions?

Said another way (which I've stated from the get-go), at its core, atheism is simply man worshipping himself.

jesus, you have no idea again what you are talking about. Hitler didn't do anything in the name of atheism, he was religious, read mine kampf (spelling is certainly wrong here). Again, he states numerous times in his diary per se that he is religious, had relgious symbols inscribed on uniforms etc..

Regardless, he did not and could not do anything in the atheism, so much as him having a mustache makes mustaches evil. You have  no argument. Atheism is a lack of belief, the burden of proof is on you guys and i see none. So, even if hitler declared im an atheist, there is no god (pretty strong statment, most atheists would say there is no evidence, not a definitive statement when really asked), it would have nothing to do with him killing. Even if he said there is no god so that means i can kill as i please, that is not a doctrine of atheism, that is his personal opinion, he is a sociopath.

However, lets look at religion it states that people who work on sunday should be stoned or the sabbath, so it has logical in roads to violence. Thus, you can do something in the name of theism but not atheism.

If i believed in fairies and had a book saying that anyone who doesnt believe in fairies should be killed, that is a logical in road. If i was an afairist and killed people, that would not have a logical connect that is the connection you are trying to make and it has been rebutted over and over, its a fallacy, an irrational argument that is easily disproved.

As for you concern on morality, you think there is an absolute morality god, i dont. You think that something external is needed to keep people in order, i dont. What does the evidence say? you are wrong. Atheists are the most moral groups, the more secular/atheistic a nation the more peaceful and equal it becomes. The more religious, darfur for example, the more violence terror and immorality. Also, if morality was absolute then i should agree with gods acts in the bible since he made me and i am endowed with this moral compass he created. The fact is i dont,millions of others do not leading me to believe this is not the source of morality. Animals show morality, something you keep avoiding. Morality is more evolved in humans and continues to progress, this is why certain acts are no longer deemed correct, its not fluid like you state. Its not that tommorrow i would think rape is fine, its a natural progression towards improvment, some people lack morals hence the issues.

morals are based on logic and reason as already explained to you, those with more of these constructs are morally superior per se. Hence atheists with the higher iqs then religious folks tend to be more moral. You see gays as immoral and sinful, i see them as people who are allowed to live there own lifes and do as they please as long as it doesnt hurt anyone. There is nothing wrong with gayness, it exists in nature, again showing its a normal variation on sexuality. You have a bigoted approach, an approach of repression and hate, i condone love, peace, acceptance and common rights for everyone. Who is more moral? there is no rational reason for anyone to ridicule gay people in this world not one.

you said you would kill your kids if god told you to, i would tell god to fuck off and do it himself if he wanted it done. I don't think killing kids for any reason is moral, you have justifications that it is, i deny infanticide and you defend it, who is more moral?

here is a funny video showing the ridiculousness of christian dissonance and argument.

[Necrosis]

O.K.  You addressed lawsuits.  What about atheist organizations, magazines, radio shows, websites, regular meetings, protests, and even "church" meetings?  How do you reconcile the fact they have all these things with your contention that "you can't do something in the name of a non-belief"?

i was specifically referring to the immoral acts of said atheists. Sure people can meet, that are atheists, what does that have to do with anything? What does atheist magazines have to do with anything, i fail to see your point. Group meetings are likely for companionship, there is no readings, perhaps they talk about how ridiculous god is, i dont know.


Perhaps atheists enjoy reading like minded material, i do. However, nothing i do in my life is because of my atheism, there is no direction offered from it.

The logic that you can do something in the name of atheism is illogical.

Give me a specific example if you will please, i was referring to something else, but i would rather counter a specific argument and how that is in the name of atheism. You cannot kill people in the name of atheism because there is no tenet which states anythign that can be seen that way. Sure people can say, well no god=i can kill, but no where does atheism state that and that is not a logical connection. The bible on the other hand has specific instructions, get my point?