Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine

[RagingBull]

PL&index=40

[timfogarty]

socialized medicine:  where the government owns the hospitals and clinics, where the doctors and nurses are government employees.

The VA (Veterans Administration) is socialized medicine.  Medicare is not.   

Medicare is a single payer system, where the government "owns" the insurance company.

I believe the UK is socialized medicine, where doctors are government employees.  Canada is a single payer system.

[rockyfortune]

socialized medicine:  where the government owns the hospitals and clinics, where the doctors and nurses are government employees.

The VA (Veterans Administration) is socialized medicine.  Medicare is not.   

Medicare is a single payer system, where the government "owns" the insurance company.

I believe the UK is socialized medicine, where doctors are government employees.  Canada is a single payer system.

Ever go to the VA...it's not terrific care...that's what you get with socialized medicine. 

[timfogarty]

Ever go to the VA...it's not terrific care...that's what you get with socialized medicine.  

You're behind the times.  

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/21/AR2005082101073.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/eveningnews/main2243606.shtml

however, that's beside the point, as no one is arguing for socialized medicine for all in the US.  Single payer, on the other hand, would be the best solution to our current mess.

[rockyfortune]

am i...i guess you failed to read about the multiple people who used the VA for health care coming down with blood born diseases  because of improper sterilization practices..perhaps you can come with me next time me and my old man visit the VA...i don't take the word of cbs news

[timfogarty]

am i...i guess you failed to read about the multiple people who used the VA for health care coming down with blood born diseases  because of improper sterilization practices.

when you make such claims on the internet, you really need to provide a link.  I find this

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/defective_products/va-biopsy-device.htm

however, I also find this

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/14/local/me-cedars-sinai14
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/doctors-shocked-radiation-exposure/story?id=8818377

Mistakes are made in all professions.  Fortunately we still have the ability to sue hospitals and doctors for malpractice.

[The Luke]

I wonder who paid for the production of that "Ronald Reagan speaks out against socialised medicine" record...?

I doubt it could be the very same insurance companies who profit from the deplorable inequities of the American healthcare system... could it?

No, surely not. Corporate propaganda is not the kind of thing a great statesman and intellectual like Ronald Reagan would be involved with... he's wasn't some kind of corporate shill, some kind of B-movie actor sell-out turned corporate mouthpiece.

Was he...?


The Luke

[dr.chimps]

I wonder who paid for the production of that "Ronald Reagan speaks out against socialised medicine" record...?

I doubt it could be the very same insurance companies who profit from the deplorable inequities of the American healthcare system... could it?

No, surely not. Corporate propaganda is not the kind of thing a great statesman and intellectual like Ronald Reagan would be involved with... he's wasn't some kind of corporate shill, some kind of B-movie actor sell-out turned corporate mouthpiece.

Was he...?

The Luke

Well, as SAG Pres., he did name names at HUAC hearings. That's not so good in my books. Probably rates pretty highly in Coach's, tho.  

[The Luke]

Well, as SAG Pres., he did name names at HUAC hearings. That's not so good in my books. Probably rates pretty highly in Coach's, tho.  

Those the McCarthy kangaroo courts... with "Have you no decency, sir" Senator Joe McCarthy searching for socialists/communists and his flaming queen sidekick Roy Cohen (who died of Aids in the '80s) ferreting out those sneaky closeted homosexuals (takes one to know one) on behalf of that most heterosexual of men, J Edgar Hoover...?

That debacle...?



The Luke 

[timfogarty]

and his flaming queen sidekick Roy Cohen (who died of Aids in the '80s) ferreting out those sneaky closeted homosexuals (takes one to know one) on behalf of that most heterosexual of men, J Edgar Hoover...?

[RagingBull]

You're behind the times.  

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/21/AR2005082101073.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/eveningnews/main2243606.shtml

however, that's beside the point, as no one is arguing for socialized medicine for all in the US.  Single payer, on the other hand, would be the best solution to our current mess.  Canada is a single payer system.

Since you like to cut and paste:  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539943,00.html

Canadian Health Officials: Our Universal Health Care Is 'Sick,' Private Insurance Should Be Welcomed
Monday, August 17, 2009
PrintShareThis
Dr. Anne Doig, the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association, said her country’s health care system is “sick” and “imploding,” the Canadian Press reported.

“We know there must be change,” Doig said in a recent interview. “We’re all running flat out, we’re all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands.”

Canada’s universal health care system is not giving patients optimal care, Doig added. When her colleagues from across the country gather at the CMA conference in Saskatoon Sunday, they will discuss changes that need to be made, she said.

“We all agree the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize,” she said.

Current president of the CMA, Dr. Robert Ouellet, will make a presentation at the conference about his findings when he toured Europe in January, and met with health groups in several countries.

Ouellet has said that “competition should be welcomed, not feared,” meaning private health insurance should have a role in the public health system.

Doig said she isn’t sure what kind of changes will be proposed when the conference wraps up, but she does know that changes have to come – and fast. She said she understands that universal health care, while good in some ways, has not always been helpful for sick people or their families.

"(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now — if it keeps on going without change — is not sustainable," Doig said.

[Immortal_Technique]

Reagan always was a douche.

Yes, it is true that the US has the 37th best health care system in the world, according to data from the World Health Organization (WHO). Fortunately for the ego of the United States, the WHO stopped doing the ranking in 2000 due to the difficulty of compiling the data.

The top ten are France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra, Malta, SIngapore, Spain, Oman, Austria, and Japan.

11-20 are Norway, Portugal, Monaco, Greece, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Ireland, and Switzerland.

21-30 are Belgium, Columbia, Sweden, Cyprus, Germany, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Israel, Morocco, and Canada.

31-40 are Finland, Australia, Chile, Denmark, Dominica, Costa Rica, United States of America, Slovenia, Cuba and Brunei.

41-50 are New Zealand, Bahrain, Croatia, Qatar, Kuwait, Barbados, Thailand, Czech Repubic, Malaysia, and Poland

Although our health care system is the ranked behind nearly every other industrialized country, the US can proudly boast that we pay more, a LOT more, than anyone else for our care. Not only does the United States spend more than $1 trillion more per year than anyone else on the planet, we also pay more, a lot more, per capita for our health care.

The World Health Organization says, “The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance.” This puts to rest the tired notion that the American “free market” pushes for the most efficient and least expensive system. In fact, we are the least efficient healthcare in the industrialized world.

[rockyfortune]

when you make such claims on the internet, you really need to provide a link.  I find this

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/defective_products/va-biopsy-device.htm

however, I also find this

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/14/local/me-cedars-sinai14
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/doctors-shocked-radiation-exposure/story?id=8818377

Mistakes are made in all professions.  Fortunately we still have the ability to sue hospitals and doctors for malpractice.

how's this?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/23/AR2009082302175.html

[YngiweRhoads]

Reagan always was a douche.

QFT.


Isn't the number of people without health insurance around 15% (40 some-odd million) of the US population? That's a huge, huge number of people without access to adequate medical care.

[Immortal_Technique]

Yeah I mean Gordon Brown is a douche too but at least in Britain we all have access to thousands of pounds of healthcare whenever we need it, and some poor single mother from some shitty area doesn't have to worry that her kids won't get treatment cos she earns almost nothing, or that she will be financially crippled of they do. Broad analogy haha but you get what I mean.

[rockyfortune]

when you make such claims on the internet, you really need to provide a link.  I find this

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/defective_products/va-biopsy-device.htm

however, I also find this

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/14/local/me-cedars-sinai14
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/doctors-shocked-radiation-exposure/story?id=8818377

Mistakes are made in all professions.  Fortunately we still have the ability to sue hospitals and doctors for malpractice.

and this....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/04/AR2007030401394.html

[delta9mda]

QFT.


Isn't the number of people without health insurance around 15% (40 some-odd million) of the US population? That's a huge, huge number of people without access to adequate medical care.

you can have health care without health insurance.

[YngiweRhoads]

you can have health care without health insurance.

Interesting. I don't know a great deal about the US system of health care ( other than media bs ), but why purchase health care insurance if it isn't required in order to receive health care? I'm pretty sure people who can't afford insurance could no more be able to afford to pay outright for medical services.

[headhuntersix]

Reagan always was a douche.

Yes, it is true that the US has the 37th best health care system in the world, according to data from the World Health Organization (WHO). Fortunately for the ego of the United States, the WHO stopped doing the ranking in 2000 due to the difficulty of compiling the data.

The top ten are France, Italy, , SIngapore, Spain, Oman, Austria, and Japan.

11-20 are Norway, Portugal, Monaco, Greece, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Ireland, and Switzerland.

21-30 are Belgium, , Sweden, Cyprus, Germany,  Israel, Morocco, and Canada.

31-40 are Finland, Australia, Chile, Denmark,, United States of America, Slovenia, Cuba and Brunei.

41-50 are New Zealand, Bahrain, Croatia, Qatar, Kuwait, Barbados, Thailand, Czech Repubic, Malaysia, and Poland

Although our health care system is the ranked behind nearly every other industrialized country, the US can proudly boast that we pay more, a LOT more, than anyone else for our care. Not only does the United States spend more than $1 trillion more per year than anyone else on the planet, we also pay more, a lot more, per capita for our health care.

The World Health Organization says, “The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance.” This puts to rest the tired notion that the American “free market” pushes for the most efficient and least expensive system. In fact, we are the least efficient healthcare in the industrialized world.

Anybody want to get appendicitis here.....San Marino, Andorra, Malta. Or how about get in a car crash here Columbia, Dominica, Costa Rica, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates.....gimme a friggen break. That WHO study is now and always has been bullshit.  If medicine in SA was so great they wouldn't be coming here.

[The Luke]

Anybody want to get appendicitis here.....San Marino, Andorra, Malta. Or how about get in a car crash here Columbia, Dominica, Costa Rica, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates.....gimme a friggen break. That WHO study is now and always has been bullshit.  If medicine in SA was so great they wouldn't be coming here.

Dude, travel a little.

All three of those countries have top notch health services.... and Malta, Andorra and San Marino are all in Europe, not South America.


I've been to Malta (lots of antediluvian archaeological sites to see), every second street corner has a cosmetic dentist offering cutting edge technology; ozone sterilization; laser whitening; veneers and 3D x-ray topography custom milled porcelain caps at a fraction of the cost you'd pay in America (or elsewhere in Europe). The entire island (and Comino) is populated with retired British ex-pats... and if a country full of retired old people has decided on universal healthcare, maybe there's something to it.

The Maltese government rightly uses it's bulk-buying single payer status to batter down prices on prescription drugs, so forgive me and my "socialist" predilections if the thought of Big Pharma earning only honest profits DOESN'T cause a single solitary tear to roll down my cheek.

In fact, so many retirees have been enticed to move to Malta, that Malta now has the highest per capita income in the entire EU. How many wealthy retirees has America LOST due to it's poor healthcare system...?


I think the problem here isn't one of facts and misconceptions, as many presume... it's that people such as yourself have been propagandised to within an inch of your sanity and you don't even realise it.


The Luke

[rockyfortune]

if the us system sucks...then why do you have arab sheiks flying to the mayo clinic for medical treatment...stop the bs with the socialized medicine crap...

[Coach is Back!]

All I can say about you liberals is WOW, you guys seriously need help!

[timfogarty]

if the us system sucks...then why do you have arab sheiks flying to the mayo clinic for medical treatment...stop the bs with the socialized medicine crap...

you really think that pointing out the type of care a billionaire can get supports your cause regarding the masses?  we have the best that money can buy.  but if you have no money, you have limited access.  the goal is to get the most care to the most people who need it, not just the few who can afford it.

[timfogarty]

All I can say about you liberals is WOW, you guys seriously need help!

you could use some empathy.  "There but for the grace of God go I."

[jesusbod]

You're behind the times.  

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/21/AR2005082101073.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/eveningnews/main2243606.shtml

however, that's beside the point, as no one is arguing for socialized medicine for all in the US.  Single payer, on the other hand, would be the best solution to our current mess.

A single payer system run by the government.. Great,,,, because they run ALL other programs top notch... No Thank you. I'll keep my insurance I buy out of my pocket...