Teen Gets Abortion With Help of Her Seattle High School

[Dos Equis]

The law specifically allows doctors to administer birth control, STD treatment and in some states abortion to teens. Teenagers may not share (or have to be held liable for) some of their parent's values.

I'm not needlessly flippant about abortion. It's just one of those distractions I'm sick of people arguing about when much bigger evils are afoot. I'm even tired of asking people who insist less regulation will make the country a better place why they feel a moral/spiritual obligation to legislate control the bodies of others.

There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me.

And yet here you are.   

[Dos Equis]

Excellent Point.

Thank you.   

[drkaje]

And yet here you are.   

I wrote "There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me." not "There's just no entertainment value left in the people on either side of this issue for me."

[Dos Equis]

I wrote "There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me." not "There's just no entertainment value left in the people on either side of this issue for me."

Ah so.   

[tonymctones]

Guardians can be wrong, misinformed, ignorant, stupid, etc... Having children doesn't mean you're smart or competent to make decisions for others. It simply means you could have children.

yes they can but more so than a 15 yr old on a contiuous basis?

the fact is adults generally have the ability to make a more informed decision hence the whole "age of legal consent"

again do you know of any other medical procedure that can occur on a minor without their consent?

[Eyeball Chambers]

I don't know, doing things like getting high at school, wrecking your parents car, getting your girlfriend pregnant, shoplifting, etc seem like normal teen "mistakes".

On the other hand, getting pregnant as a teen girl, not telling anyone, letting a doctor stick some kind of vacuum machine up your vagina, and facing your parents before hand (and after) without saying anything...

Something has got to be seriously wrong with a teen girl who's conscience would allow her to do that... Something like that goes well beyond just being a "teenage mistake" and makes me believe that kind of girl and the people who supposedly "raised" her need serious help.

Maybe I'm just naive, maybe the world is full of more sociopaths than I realized...

[drkaje]

yes they can but more so than a 15 yr old on a contiuous basis?

the fact is adults generally have the ability to make a more informed decision hence the whole "age of legal consent"

again do you know of any other medical procedure that can occur on a minor without their consent?

Emergency and lifesaving procedures.

[tonymctones]

Emergency and lifesaving procedures.

and rightly so...where does abortion fall in regards to emergency and lifesaving procedures?

so why should they be allowed to have these without parental consent or the absolute minimum parental notification?

[drkaje]

and rightly so...where does abortion fall in regards to emergency and lifesaving procedures?

so why should they be allowed to have these without parental consent or the absolute minimum parental notification?

Already explained that: Parents aren't always right. Leaving, growing or incubating DNA doesn't mean you know a damn thing and are able to make sound decisions for others. I see plenty of people with obese children as proof of this.

If you want to split hairs.... We also aren't necessarily qualified to make decisions for others.

No state laws were broken. This isn't news. It could have easily been a case of incest where parental notification would have resulted in her being forced to keep a two headed baby, physical abuse, rape or jail time for a parent and being forced to stay with a resentful enabler until emancipated.  There are just as many reasons a parent shouldn't know as why they should be informed.

[Dos Equis]

Already explained that: Parents aren't always right. Leaving, growing or incubating DNA doesn't mean you know a damn thing and are able to make sound decisions for others. I see plenty of people with obese children as proof of this.

If you want to split hairs.... We also aren't necessarily qualified to make decisions for others.

No state laws were broken. This isn't news. It could have easily been a case of incest where parental notification would have resulted in her being forced to keep a two headed baby, physical abuse, rape or jail time for a parent and being forced to stay with a resentful enabler until emancipated.  There are just as many reasons a parent shouldn't know as why they should be informed.

That doesn't really respond to tony's question.  There is no other elective medical procedure that I can think of that doesn't require parental consent. 

Regarding whether "no state laws were broken," I'm not sure that's true.  I haven't read the Washington law, but I question whether it permits a school and an abortion mill to participate in a coverup. 

More importantly, schools are mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect.  Unless the age of consent in Washington is under 16, this girl was raped and the school had a duty to report this to either the police or child protective services. 

[drkaje]

That doesn't really respond to tony's question.  There is no other elective medical procedure that I can think of that doesn't require parental consent. 

Regarding whether "no state laws were broken," I'm not sure that's true.  I haven't read the Washington law, but I question whether it permits a school and an abortion mill to participate in a coverup. 

More importantly, schools are mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect.  Unless the age of consent in Washington is under 16, this girl was raped and the school had a duty to report this to either the police or child protective services. 

I did answer Tony's question. You just didn't like the response, LOL! If it were a boob job, I'd agree but we're specifically talking about certain states limiting parental dominion over children's reproductive rights.

The statutory rape, if he was older than 17, is another issue because school officials and doctors are mandated reporters.

Coverup is incorrect language. The girl still has a right to privacy so it's entirely possible telling her to STFU was to more to prevent foolishness, not conceal illegal activity. They literally may not be able to provide free birth control once parental consent is given.

We can only speculate as to what else will come out on this story later. That being true, some people would already be in jail if a state law was broken.

[Dos Equis]

I did answer Tony's question. You just didn't like the response, LOL! If it were a boob job, I'd agree but we're specifically talking about certain states limiting parental dominion over children's reproductive rights.

The statutory rape, if he was older than 17, is another issue because school officials and doctors are mandated reporters.

Coverup is incorrect language. The girl still has a right to privacy so it's entirely possible telling her to STFU was to more to prevent foolishness, not conceal illegal activity. They literally may not be able to provide free birth control once parental consent is given.

We can only speculate as to what else will come out on this story later. That being true, some people would already be in jail if a state law was broken.

Tony was asking what other elective procedure a hospital could perform without parental consent.  You didn't answer that question.  Are you aware of any other elective procedure that doesn't require parental consent?  

I agree we need to let this play out.  We don't know the whole story.  

[drkaje]

Tony was asked what other elective procedure a hospital could perform without parental consent.  You didn't answer that question.  Are you aware of any other elective procedure that doesn't require parental consent? 

I agree we need to let this play out.  We don't know the whole story. 

Elective?! Not off the top of my head unless you're talking about someone already emancipated.

If it's her parent's cooter they should have been keeping a better eye on it.

[Dos Equis]

Elective?! Not off the top of my head unless you're talking about someone already emancipated.

If it's her parent's cooter they should have been keeping a better eye on it.

Now that answers the question.   

They could have kept a better eye and the kid could have still gotten pregnant.  I know some pretty strict parents whose kids have gotten pregnant. 

[tonymctones]

Already explained that: Parents aren't always right. Leaving, growing or incubating DNA doesn't mean you know a damn thing and are able to make sound decisions for others. I see plenty of people with obese children as proof of this.

If you want to split hairs.... We also aren't necessarily qualified to make decisions for others.

No state laws were broken. This isn't news. It could have easily been a case of incest where parental notification would have resulted in her being forced to keep a two headed baby, physical abuse, rape or jail time for a parent and being forced to stay with a resentful enabler until emancipated.  There are just as many reasons a parent shouldn't know as why they should be informed.

again please stop using the its ok b/c its the law arguement...slavery was once legal was it ok then?


LOL ok so to protect the  1% of abortions that take place in this country as a result of rape, incest or sexual abuse lets not require any of them to have parental consent or even parental notification?  talk about over reacting

[tonymctones]

I did answer Tony's question. You just didn't like the response, LOL! If it were a boob job, I'd agree but we're specifically talking about certain states limiting parental dominion over children's reproductive rights.

The statutory rape, if he was older than 17, is another issue because school officials and doctors are mandated reporters.

Coverup is incorrect language. The girl still has a right to privacy so it's entirely possible telling her to STFU was to more to prevent foolishness, not conceal illegal activity. They literally may not be able to provide free birth control once parental consent is given.

We can only speculate as to what else will come out on this story later. That being true, some people would already be in jail if a state law was broken.

whoa whoa whoa its her cooter and she can do what she wants in regards to abortion but if she wanted to have sex with a guy whos over 17 that youre all of a sudden against?

its ok for a 15 year old to decide to have an abortionb/c hey its her body but she isnt free to choose who impregnates her?

[drkaje]

whoa whoa whoa its her cooter and she can do what she wants in regards to abortion but if she wanted to have sex with a guy whos over 17 that youre all of a sudden against?

its ok for a 15 year old to decide to have an abortionb/c hey its her body but she isnt free to choose who impregnates her?

Is it the state's cooter?!

I'd be more than a little worried about the state having that much control over our bodies.

As for the slavery question.... we're not talking about right or wrong here. Right and wrong aren't absolutes, they're determined by political outcomes.

[Dos Equis]

Right and wrong aren't absolutes, they're determined by political outcomes.

[insert Peter Griffin voice]:  Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.     You're not injecting moral skepticism into this are you?  I think tony and I had this discussion a while back, and we didn't really agree, but there are some things that are absolutely immoral.  For example, rape, child molestation, elder abuse.  All absolutely immoral and "wrong," regardless of political outcome.

[tonymctones]

Is it the state's cooter?!

I'd be more than a little worried about the state having that much control over our bodies.

As for the slavery question.... we're not talking about right or wrong here. Right and wrong aren't absolutes, they're determined by political outcomes.

but you support the state saying she has the right to choose in one instance and dont in another in regards to age and sex?

the problem is the system has to be consistant...and it does strive to be right even in political terms

you cant say that a girl isnt of legal age cant have elective surgery and then turn around and say ohhh except for this without reason...if your reasoning for that is b/c its her body, did it stop being her body in terms of who she sleeps with and their age?

[drkaje]

but you support the state saying she has the right to choose in one instance and dont in another in regards to age and sex?

the problem is the system has to be consistant...and it does strive to be right even in political terms

you cant say that a girl isnt of legal age cant have elective surgery and then turn around and say ohhh except for this without reason...if your reasoning for that is b/c its her body, did it stop being her body in terms of who she sleeps with and their age?

There's where we disagree, LOL! Right is decided by whoever has enough power or votes but morals are personal. People externalize personal morals/values through legislation and then claim to be right.

The obsession with control over cooters is kind of ironic considering many republicans claim to be for a smaller government.

[tonymctones]

There's where we disagree, LOL! Right is decided by whoever has enough power or votes but morals are personal. People externalize personal morals/values through legislation and then claim to be right.

The obsession with control over cooters is kind of ironic considering many republicans claim to be for a smaller government.

thats fine it still doesnt doesnt excuse legislation from contradicting one another...you cant be for her being able to decide she wants an abortion under the legal age of consent and also for prosecuting men who have sex with girls under the legal age of consent b/c as you said its their cooter LOL

why does she have the right to decide in one instance but not the other?

Legislation still needs rationale behind it and the rationale needs to be consistant

also I will say conservatives believe in taking responsibiity for your actions...whether it be welfare, abortions, crime etc....liberals like to make it about control when its really about ppl being responsible 

[Deicide]

The law specifically allows doctors to administer birth control, STD treatment and in some states abortion to teens. Teenagers may not share (or have to be held liable for) some of their parent's values.

I'm not needlessly flippant about abortion. It's just one of those distractions I'm sick of people arguing about when much bigger evils are afoot. I'm even tired of asking people who insist less regulation will make the country a better place why they feel a moral/spiritual obligation to legislate control the bodies of others.

There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me.

A very fine post. Spot on.

[drkaje]

[insert Peter Griffin voice]:  Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.     You're not injecting moral skepticism into this are you?  I think tony and I had this discussion a while back, and we didn't really agree, but there are some things that are absolutely immoral.  For example, rape, child molestation, elder abuse.  All absolutely immoral and "wrong," regardless of political outcome.

Marriage ages were much different a long time ago in the US. Were all those older men rapists and molesters?

We, as a culture, have lack any morals beyond whatever is convenient and there's no degree of depravity or indifference to the suffering of others we cannot rationalize if it suits our needs.

Saying "we have no morals" is a fact, not skepticism, LOL!

[tonymctones]

thats fine it still doesnt doesnt excuse legislation from contradicting one another...you cant be for her being able to decide she wants an abortion under the legal age of consent and also for prosecuting men who have sex with girls under the legal age of consent b/c as you said its their cooter LOL

why does she have the right to decide in one instance but not the other?

Legislation still needs rationale behind it and the rationale needs to be consistant

also I will say conservatives believe in taking responsibiity for your actions...whether it be welfare, abortions, crime etc....liberals like to make it about control when its really about ppl being responsible 

bump for doc

[drkaje]

thats fine it still doesnt doesnt excuse legislation from contradicting one another...you cant be for her being able to decide she wants an abortion under the legal age of consent and also for prosecuting men who have sex with girls under the legal age of consent b/c as you said its their cooter LOL

why does she have the right to decide in one instance but not the other?

Legislation still needs rationale behind it and the rationale needs to be consistant

also I will say conservatives believe in taking responsibiity for your actions...whether it be welfare, abortions, crime etc....liberals like to make it about control when its really about ppl being responsible 

Laws are created by people and rarely make perfect sense. Why can someone be drafted at 18 but can't drink until 21?

Age of consent is more or less to protect children from relationships deemed socially inappropriate. Arguing 'age of consent for sex and medical procedures should be identical' is reaching to bit. For sake of argument let's say you're right... should people take a separate driving test for SUVs? Often I see people who cannot park their Tahoe/H2/Explorer, should the state make them prove driving competence first?

I'm for limiting the state's power, not selectively expanding it to advance certain political goals. Picking and choosing where we should limit or expand the states power based upon who has the most votes is dangerous.

As for consistency...... who do hard core republicans insist on poor people keeping unwanted pregnancies yet refuse to insure the babies? If insurance is a matter of personal responsibility they having babies should be as well.