Author Topic: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals  (Read 11015 times)

Soul Crusher

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70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegal Immigration
rasmussenreports ^ | 04241200


Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:08:12 AM by VU4G10

The Arizona legislature has now passed the toughest measure against illegal immigration in the country, authorizing local police to stop and check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally.

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 70% of likely voters in Arizona approve of the legislation, while just 23% oppose it.


(Excerpt) Read more at rasmussenreports.com ...

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ToxicAvenger

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awesome! 8)

now lets hope more states follow suit
carpe` vaginum!

Soul Crusher

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ZERO was pissed off because AZ got out ahead of this and the people supprot AZ over the amnesty crap sandwich he wants to push. 

FUBO!

240 is Back

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hey, 54% of Americans supported a socialist marxist kenyan martian tree hugging warmonger for President.

Sometimes the masses can be wrong.  Like I said, this bill opens the door to abuse.  When janet napaliano decides it's okay to use this bill to profile bald white guys who might be terrorists, you can't complain 33.  Any violation of civil right of legal americans is only step 1 of many :(

Soul Crusher

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Cry me a river.  I already explained to you how this will work. 

tonymctones

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hey, 54% of Americans supported a socialist marxist kenyan martian tree hugging warmonger for President.

Sometimes the masses can be wrong.  Like I said, this bill opens the door to abuse.  When janet napaliano decides it's okay to use this bill to profile bald white guys who might be terrorists, you can't complain 33.  Any violation of civil right of legal americans is only step 1 of many :(
STILL WAITING...for the language of this bill 240!!!

also how this bill is any different than any other law on the books that is subjective to officers?

what law hasnt produced a civil rights violation? it isnt the law its the officers enforcing the law...this law isnt perfect but something needs to be done.

thinking politically as well 240, this will force obamas hand on immigration more than likely in some form or another...another hot button issue with voters right before the mid term elections..

YOU SHOULD ADMIRE THE SHREWDNESS OF THIS BILL...I guess its like I thought though its only when obama is being "shrewd"  ::)

Soul Crusher

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Yup - and you could tell that Obama knew yesterday that his usuall garbage is not going to work on this since AZ got out ahead on this. 

Obama is going to spark a rebellion if he thinks demozing 70% of the population on this issue is going to help him. 

chaos

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hey, 54% of Americans supported a socialist marxist kenyan martian tree hugging warmonger for President.

Sometimes the masses can be wrong.  Like I said, this bill opens the door to abuse.  When janet napaliano decides it's okay to use this bill to profile bald white guys who might be terrorists, you can't complain 33.  Any violation of civil right of legal americans is only step 1 of many :(
I got no problem proving my citizenship time and time again if it means keeping scumbag, lawbreaking illegal immigrants out of my country.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Soul Crusher

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What is the problem with this in a scenario such as a cop pulling over someone for speeding or DWI or something and the guy hands him a drivers license that does not match up with records or is obviously bogus? 


240 is Back

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i'm talking about a cop pulling you over for NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

I'm talking about a cop pulling you out of line at an ice cream stand for no reason, other than "you look like an illegal".

Do they have the power with this bill - yes or no?

Soul Crusher

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2010, 10:34:09 AM »
They need "REASONABLE SUSPICION" and race alone is not, never has, and never will be allowed to be a sole factor. 

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Reasonable suspicion
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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 This article needs additional citations for verification.


Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (April 2008)

Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. It is the basis for an investigatory or Terry stop by the police and requires less evidence than probable cause, the legal requirement for arrests and warrants. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch. Police may also, based solely on reasonable suspicion of a threat to safety, frisk a suspect for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. A combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous, can form the basis of reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion is also sometimes called "arguable suspicion".[citation needed]


Contents [hide]
1 Precedent
2 Other Uses
2.1 Schools
2.2 Border Security, Customs, and Immigration
3 Examples
4 See also
5 External links
 
[edit] Precedent
In Terry v. Ohio, the Supreme Court ruled that a person can be stopped and frisked by a police officer based on a reasonable suspicion. Such a detention does not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizure. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada the court further established that a state may require, by law, that a person identify himself or herself to an officer during a stop. An arrest is not permitted based on reasonable suspicion; probable cause is required for an arrest. Further, a person is not required to answer any other questions during a Terry stop, and the detention must be brief. However if the officer's suspicions were correct and the situation escalates to a point of where the officer has probable cause, the officer can arrest the suspect.

[edit] Other Uses
[edit] Schools
New Jersey v. T. L. O. set the precedent that probable cause is not necessary to search a student; reasonable suspicion is enough to search a student's belongings. Overly intrusive searches, like a body cavity search, require probable cause.

[edit] Border Security, Customs, and Immigration
Main article: Border search exception
Although U.S. Customs can do routine suspicionless searches of people and effects crossing the border (including passing through airport customs), non-routine searches, like slashing the spare tire of a car, require reasonable suspicion. United States v. Flores-Montano. Anything even more intrusive, like compelled surgery of a suspected balloon swallower, requires probable cause. United States v. Montoya De Hernandez.

[edit] Examples
Courts have ruled (Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)) that a stop on reasonable suspicion may be appropriate in the following cases: when a person possesses many unusual items which would be useful in a crime like a wire hanger and is looking into car windows at 2am, when a person matches a description of a suspect given by another police officer over department radio, or when a person runs away at the sight of police officers who are at common law right of inquiry (founded suspicion). However, reasonable suspicion may not apply merely because a person refuses to answer questions, declines to allow a voluntary search, or is of a suspected race or ethnicity. At reasonable suspicion, you may be detained by a police officer (court officer on court grounds) for a short period of time and police can use force to detain you. If it is a violent crime (robbery, rape, gun run), the courts have recognized that an officers safety is paramount and have allowed for a "frisk" of the outermost garment from head to toe and for an officer to stop an individual at gun point if necessary. For a non-violent crime (shoplifting for example) an officer may frisk while at reasonable suspicion if he noticed a bulge in the waistband area, for example, but can frisk in that area only. In the city of New York, once a person is released in a reasonable suspicion stop, a "stop, question and frisk report" is filled out and filed in the command that the stop occurs.

[edit] See also
Stop and Identify statutes (refusing to identify oneself when detained may be a crime in some jurisdictions)
United States v. Arnold (searches and seizures of electronic media at a United States port of entry by Customs and Border Protection)
[edit] External links
A definition on Dictionary.com
A Checklist for Use in Workplace

Soul Crusher

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2010, 10:43:03 AM »
Courtesy of Free Republic.

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Obama: Show proof of health insurance but not citizenship (Vanity)


Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:31:23 AM by TigerBait

So just to be clear, it's constitutional to penalize someone for not showing proof of health insurance but not request proof of citizenship?

???

240 is Back

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2010, 10:54:01 AM »
because IF they have the power to do this - to demand papers for processing/ID for any individual, even those who haven't committed a crime - then there is a whole lot of abuse that can occur.

They can have "a feeling" that somebody in the movie theater is an illegal, so they can empty the place and make your ass sit handcuffed on a curb for 90 minutes while they process your IDs, oe by one.

They can have "a feeling" on any group of people at anytime - and they can have large groups detained (using fenced in yards, police cehicles, whatever), until they check every single ID.  

And god forbid the power go out - they'll just put anyone they want in a fence until they can get their computers working and process everyone.

I know most of you only value civil rights when a Dem comes after them, but I'm pretty surprised on this one.  If they can detain ONE PERSON without cause until the paperwork checks out, they can do it to a million.

Soul Crusher

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2010, 10:57:09 AM »
GMAFB.  I gave you the scenario its most likely to be used in, which is exactly when it should be used.

240 - "I SUPPORT AMNESTY" 

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2010, 10:59:34 AM »
"Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. "

See, that part is what I'm talking about.

They can stop 10,000 people a day based upon "reasonable suspicion".  

And would you be cool if Obama was targeting bald white guys with guns and muscle who "might be engaged in current terrorism actions" based upon reasonable suspicion?


See, I'm not crying about profiling - I don't bitch about that issue.  Others can argue about that.  I care because this opens up the ability of the govt to pull over anyone in traffic at 11 pm because "we have reasonable suspicion anyone out at that hour is driving drunk".  Or to pull over anyone leaving a metallica concert because "we have reasonable suspicion to believe they use pot".  Or to pull over anyone leaving the gun range because "we have resonable reason to believe their guns aren't securely encased".  Or to pull over anyone leaving the gym because "we have reasonable suspicion they use steroids".

i think you're giving Obama too much credit - he's publicly talking against it, and privately, probably laughing at the repubs willing to succomg to a police state because it is painted in GOP colors ;)

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2010, 11:09:04 AM »
'I gave you the scenario its most likely to be used in"

"Most likely"?

You're a lawyer.  Do you like laws where a-hole cops have to be trusted not to abuse it?  Do you like laws that are "most likely" applied how you'd like them to be?

I like the law black and white.  I like to know that if I haven't broken the law, I can't be yanked from line at Walmart and carded wit 500 other people because of vaguely defined "resonable suspicion".

but like I said, be cool with it until Obama decides white bald guys at gun ranges are a threat... then you can value civil liberties - when it's too late.

Soul Crusher

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2010, 11:10:50 AM »
Most laws allow a large degree of discretion to the police. 

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2010, 11:12:50 AM »
240 - "I SUPPORT AMNESTY"  


Um, I do not.  I heard an argument about amnesty/illegals and posted it here for discusison.

You know my position - kick them the fvck out.  Those with kids - that gets really messy.

And you know I'm all for mining the border, paying militias for every one they catch, using the military, etc.  

And you know I understand the reality (as do you, probably) that neither party really wants to stop them from entering.



I didn't vote for a pro-amnesty candidate like most people here did.

Bob Barr said we must end government benefits and services for illegal immigrants.  

mccain and obama wanted to give them a reacharound and a warm bath.

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2010, 11:14:11 AM »
"Most laws allow a large degree of discretion to the police. "

To detain an identify Americans without probable cause?

Soul Crusher

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2010, 11:18:36 AM »
No to enforce the law.

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2010, 11:27:50 AM »
You see where I'm coming from, right?  I'm not one of these bleeding hearts crying about profiling.  And I'm not pro-amnesty.  Remember my idea of breaking 1 leg and returning them to the southernmost tip of mexico, and seeing how many can make the journey a second time?  :)

I just worry that leaders will use this embrace of "sure, we're cool with Americans being stopped anytime, as long as its the brown ones who look like illegals".

Because once they can do it for illegals, they'll wait 6 months and quietly try it for something else.  bush wanted a very few patriot act wiretaps... didn't obama halt the auditing before we ever found out how many millions of warrantless taps had taken place? 

They'll abuse and advance it.

chaos

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2010, 11:29:41 AM »
240, I'm not going to read all of your rantings here, but I have been stopped for "being suspicious" and had my ID ran, it takes a few minutes and if you're not doing anything wrong, what's the big deal?

And I do believe there has to be probable cause to stop someone.

Seems to me you (240) are being seriously overreacting to this, I would think that you would be supportive of protecting your country.

And when there becomes a huge influx of bald white guys invading our country and committing crimes without fear of repercussion, then yes, I can see where they would enforce this law on us.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

240 is Back

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2010, 11:37:01 AM »
it's cause I was handcuffed for 15 minutes this year because I looked like someone wanted for a crime locally. 

It sucked.  Really bad.  I probably would have supported this before that experience.  But I was stopped for no reason, and sat on the curb for 15 min cuffed.  I justified it with "um, they were just doing their job".... but it sucked.  And I'd hate for cops to be able to do that anytime.

I don't think this will be limited to menacing looking dudes holding Mex flags doing kidnappings in the bad areas of Arizona.   I think it'll be step 1 of many.

Soul Crusher

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2010, 11:38:50 AM »
Exactly. If there were 26 million zips from Italy doing this same crap, I would probably join the calzone patrol myself. 

chaos

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Re: 70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2010, 11:47:58 AM »
it's cause I was handcuffed for 15 minutes this year because I looked like someone wanted for a crime locally. 

It sucked.  Really bad.  I probably would have supported this before that experience.  But I was stopped for no reason, and sat on the curb for 15 min cuffed.  I justified it with "um, they were just doing their job".... but it sucked.  And I'd hate for cops to be able to do that anytime.

I don't think this will be limited to menacing looking dudes holding Mex flags doing kidnappings in the bad areas of Arizona.   I think it'll be step 1 of many.
LOL, you look like a criminal. ;D

You're trying to see too far into the future with this, but hopefully it is the first step of many........other states following Arizonas lead and taking control of our illegal immigration problems since the federal government is too concerned with forcing me to pay for other peoples insurance and not worried about the economy or illegal immigration or our jobs going to Mexico and overseas. ::)
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!