Author Topic: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs  (Read 15041 times)

Dos Equis

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Here it comes.  I think we're going to see a lot more of this kind of thing.  So much for the First Amendment.   

University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
Published July 09, 2010
Associated Press

URBANA, Ill. -- The University of Illinois has fired an adjunct professor who taught courses on Catholicism after a student accused the instructor of engaging in hate speech by saying he agrees with the church's teaching that homosexual sex is immoral.

The professor, Ken Howell of Champaign, has taught at the university for nine years. He says his firing violates his academic freedom.

A professor at the university who is also president of the American Association of University Professors agrees. Cary Nelson says teachers are allowed to express their own beliefs.

University spokeswoman Robin Kaler declined comment because Howell's firing is a personnel issue.

The student had a friend register his complaint and has remained anonymous.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/09/university-illinois-instructor-fired-catholic-beliefs/

kcballer

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2010, 12:49:21 PM »
If it's 'okay' to fire a woman from a catholic school who gets pregnant out of wedlock, it's okay to fire a catholic teacher for this. 

Can't have it both ways. 
Abandon every hope...

Dos Equis

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 12:52:15 PM »
A woman being fired by a private school for breaching her contract has absolutely nothing to do with a public university firing an employee for exercising First Amendment rights. 

kcballer

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 01:44:29 PM »
A woman being fired by a private school for breaching her contract has absolutely nothing to do with a public university firing an employee for exercising First Amendment rights. 

He's breaching his contract in teaching with a bias.  Like i said can't have it both ways wingnut...
Abandon every hope...

Dos Equis

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2010, 01:52:22 PM »
He's breaching his contract in teaching with a bias.  Like i said can't have it both ways wingnut...

lol.  Took you a whole two posts to start with the insults/ad hominem.

This is a First Amendment issue because it involves a public university.  Apples and oranges.   


kcballer

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 01:56:01 PM »
lol.  Took you a whole two posts to start with the insults/ad hominem.

This is a First Amendment issue because it involves a public university.  Apples and oranges.   



Nope.  It's a contract issue.  As a teacher it is your duty to teach without bias of race, sex or creed.  That is a breach of contract and cause for firing if you do not uphold that.  Just as it was for that poor woman in Florida.  Face it beach if you're okay with one, you're okay with the other. 
Abandon every hope...

MCWAY

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 02:01:02 PM »
Nope.  It's a contract issue.  As a teacher it is your duty to teach without bias of race, sex or creed.  That is a breach of contract and cause for firing if you do not uphold that.  Just as it was for that poor woman in Florida.  Face it beach if you're okay with one, you're okay with the other.  
GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Liberal professors teach with bias, especially AGAINST religion, as if there's no tomorrow. And Beach is right. This case is nothing like the Jaretta Hamilton case, where they state, point blank, that fornication is wrong (especially, when the student handbook states it's ground for expulsion).

If teaching without bias were a standard for employment, college campuses would have a shortage of university professors, by week's end.

Plus, this guy was teaching courses on CATHOLICISM. Agreeing or disagreeing with its teaching is no grounds for being fired.

Dos Equis

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 02:01:27 PM »
Nope.  It's a contract issue.  As a teacher it is your duty to teach without bias of race, sex or creed.  That is a breach of contract and cause for firing if you do not uphold that.  Just as it was for that poor woman in Florida.  Face it beach if you're okay with one, you're okay with the other. 

What contract are you talking about?  Have you seen his contract?  

The story says nothing about teaching with or without bias.  It says a professor who teaches a religious course was accused of hate speech because he agrees with the church's teaching that homosexuality is immoral.  That's not hate speech.  

And this has nothing to do with bias.  There would be "bias" if he was treating/grading students differently based on some protected class, etc.    

Dos Equis

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 02:02:52 PM »
GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Liberal professors teach with bias, especially AGAINST religion, as if there's no tomorrow. And Beach is right. This case is nothing like the Jaretta Hamilton case, where they state, point blank, that fornication is wrong (especially, when the student handbook states it's ground for expulsion).

If teaching without bias were a standard for employment, college campuses would have a shortage of university professors, by week's end.

Tell me about it.  I have heard numerous stories about liberal ideas/agendas being crammed down students' throats. 

Skip8282

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 02:02:54 PM »
Nope.  It's a contract issue.  As a teacher it is your duty to teach without bias of race, sex or creed.  That is a breach of contract and cause for firing if you do not uphold that.  Just as it was for that poor woman in Florida.  Face it beach if you're okay with one, you're okay with the other. 


Where does it say he was teaching that?  The article only says he gave his opinion on it, for all we know it could have been at a football game.

It doesn't sound as though you've attended college.  Instructors give their opinions all the time.  Only if they're teaching it as factual material in class would it be a problem.

Fury

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 02:04:50 PM »

Where does it say he was teaching that?  The article only says he gave his opinion on it, for all we know it could have been at a football game.

It doesn't sound as though you've attended college.  Instructors give their opinions all the time.  Only if they're teaching it as factual material in class would it be a problem.

;D

kcballer

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2010, 02:12:50 PM »

Where does it say he was teaching that?  The article only says he gave his opinion on it, for all we know it could have been at a football game.

It doesn't sound as though you've attended college.  Instructors give their opinions all the time.  Only if they're teaching it as factual material in class would it be a problem.

Haha yeah okay it's out of the classroom that he said it  ::)

I agree he should be allowed to voice his opinion if he wishes but the problem is for guys like beach it's only one way.  It's okay to fire someone for having sex out of wedlock but then when someone shows sexual bias in the classroom and is fired it's not okay.  Either both are okay or neither are okay. 

Abandon every hope...

kcballer

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2010, 02:13:53 PM »
;D


awww look who it is.  333's 'partner'.  Is that the term you use?  Or is it bottom b*tch?  I always get confused with you guys.  :)
Abandon every hope...

Skip8282

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2010, 02:24:53 PM »
Haha yeah okay it's out of the classroom that he said it  ::)






Yes, it was outside of the classroom in an email.  Here's exactly what was said according to another article:




"Howell, who taught Introduction to Catholicism and Modern Catholic Thought, says he was fired at the end of the spring semester after sending an e-mail explaining some Catholic beliefs to his students preparing for an exam.

"Natural Moral Law says that Morality must be a response to REALITY," he wrote in the e-mail. "In other words, sexual acts are only appropriate for people who are complementary, not the same."

An unidentified student sent an e-mail to religion department head Robert McKim on May 13, calling Howell's e-mail "hate speech." The student claimed to be a friend of the offended student. The writer said in the e-mail that his friend wanted to remain anonymous.

"Teaching a student about the tenets of a religion is one thing," the student wrote. "Declaring that homosexual acts violate the natural laws of man is another."

Howell said he was teaching his students about the Catholic understanding of natural moral law.

"My responsibility on teaching a class on Catholicism is to teach what the Catholic Church teaches," Howell said in an interview with The News-Gazette in Champaign. "I have always made it very, very clear to my students they are never required to believe what I'm teaching and they'll never be judged on that."

Skip8282

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2010, 02:26:22 PM »
I can see where it may be fuzzy, but I would be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.

Fury

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2010, 02:29:43 PM »
awww look who it is.  333's 'partner'.  Is that the term you use?  Or is it bottom b*tch?  I always get confused with you guys.  :)

Meltdown.

Watching you try to work your way out of this thread is amusing. Carry on with your idiotic comparisons between a private school and one funded by the taxpayers.

Soul Crusher

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2010, 02:31:09 PM »
He's breaching his contract in teaching with a bias.  Like i said can't have it both ways wingnut...

Yet nearly 95% of professors have a liberal bias and you have no issue with that.   ::)  ::)

Soul Crusher

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2010, 02:33:10 PM »
awww look who it is.  333's 'partner'.  Is that the term you use?  Or is it bottom b*tch?  I always get confused with you guys.  :)

BF disagrees with me on many issues, and agrees with me on some. 

The fact that we both agree that 99% of the time you are borderline insane do not = us being BFFs. 

Skeletor

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 02:49:58 PM »


URBANA, Ill. -- The University of Illinois has fired an adjunct professor who taught courses on Catholicism after a student accused the instructor of engaging in hate speech by saying he agrees with the church's teaching that homosexual sex is immoral.


The history of the Catholic Church as well as the many abused children would prove him wrong.

On the issue of hate speech though, I don't see how saying that homosexual sex is "immoral" constitutes hate speech. Theoretically the Catholic Church believes many things are "immoral" (according to their "beliefs") though they certainly do seem to have a tendency for immorality themselves. It would be  a whole different story if he called for killing people (like some muslims do or how the Black Panthers did, as it was discussed in another topic).

Fury

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2010, 03:33:01 PM »
BF disagrees with me on many issues, and agrees with me on some. 

The fact that we both agree that 99% of the time you are borderline insane do not = us being BFFs. 

This is his new go-to insult as he's incapable of backing up any of the fallacious points he makes.

drkaje

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2010, 05:47:42 AM »
How can a religion course be taught without bias?

Let's ignore that most major religions disapprove of homosexuality for a minute.

Dos Equis

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2010, 11:50:18 AM »
How can a religion course be taught without bias?

Let's ignore that most major religions disapprove of homosexuality for a minute.

A survey of world religions can be taught without "bias." 

But this story has nothing to do with "bias."  (I know you didn't bring it up.) 

drkaje

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2010, 12:19:11 PM »
A survey of world religions can be taught without "bias." 

But this story has nothing to do with "bias."  (I know you didn't bring it up.) 

I was responding to KC's comment.

People really need to grow the fvck up. If someone can't handle a teacher's comment in college and find it to he "hate speech" WTF are they gonna do in the real world?!

We're raising a generation of vaginas. :'(

Dos Equis

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2010, 12:32:29 PM »
I was responding to KC's comment.

People really need to grow the fvck up. If someone can't handle a teacher's comment in college and find it to he "hate speech" WTF are they gonna do in the real world?!

We're raising a generation of vaginas. :'(

Ain't that the (sad) truth.   :-\

drkaje

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Re: University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2010, 01:29:34 PM »
Ain't that the (sad) truth.   :-\

We're definitely declining as a culture and I blame the cancer of political correctness.

Someone should have given that kid a smack in the head, some Vagisil and said STFU.