Author Topic: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??  (Read 30219 times)

Shockwave

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2010, 06:40:04 PM »
Dorian = Denser, drier, more conditioned.
Ronnie = Deeper muscle seperation, fuller, not as dry.

Mass = close to equal.

Victory = Conditioned, dry mass. Advantage, Dorian.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #76 on: July 19, 2010, 06:41:49 PM »
Heres my take.
Ronnie is the epitome of full mass.
Dorian is the epitome of conditioned mass.
EVEN if you want to argue that Dorians biceps imbalance were equal to Ronnies quad/calve imbalance and lower arm/upper arm imbalance, we all know that Conditioned mass>Full mass. Period.
The only time I see Ronnie POSSIBLY winning is 2003, for the simple fact that Ronnie was SO large that it would come down to weather judges wanted conditioning or straight size.

And then he can just compare Ronnie 03 to Dorian precontest 95 where he is 283 lbs and Ronnie has NOT real advantage  ;D

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #77 on: July 19, 2010, 06:45:50 PM »
Dorian = Denser, drier, more conditioned.
Ronnie = Deeper muscle seperation, fuller, not as dry.

Mass = close to equal.

Victory = Conditioned, dry mass. Advantage, Dorian.

Ummm don't forget Dorian's a better poser.  ;) oh and more complete


Nirvana

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #78 on: July 19, 2010, 06:45:59 PM »
i post pictures proving ronnie is better

then i hear a list of reasons why the pictures don't count, or how those were bad photos of dorian, to your standards the only "good" pictures you have to offer of dorian have all been morphed

Shockwave

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #79 on: July 19, 2010, 06:48:05 PM »
i post pictures proving ronnie is better

then i hear a list of reasons why the pictures don't count, or how those were bad photos of dorian, to your standards the only "good" pictures you have to offer of dorian have all been morphed
Why cant you understand that the pics dont prove shit, that to YOU they prove it, but to ME, they show Dorian winning? Why cant you comprehend that? Are you dense? Did your mom drop you on your head as a child?
You cant seem to comprehend that bodybuilding is a subjective sport, I.E that everone that looks at two competitors has a different opinion. And since I ACTUALLY know how Bodybuilding is judged, not just based on who I think should win because I like their look, when I see those pics, I see Dorian winning in any pic that doesnt involve the FDB or 1997. how hard is it for you to grasp this concept? Christ almighty. ::)

Nirvana

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2010, 06:50:16 PM »
Ummm don't forget Dorian's a better poser.  ;) oh and more complete


yeah ronnies got a gut, but dorian only has one arm, ronnie has no calves, but does have the glutes and hams. also he is symmetrical dorian only missing a bicep, but that ruins symmetry on a lot of poses. as for dryer, I don't see striated quads or glutes on dorian or striated triceps















but they both suck at posing whether it's ronnies "raising the roof" or dorians "piuroette"

Don_Dada

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #81 on: July 19, 2010, 06:51:27 PM »
the 98-99 version of Ronnie wouldve had a hard time with an '07 Wolf





Shockwave

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #82 on: July 19, 2010, 06:52:37 PM »
yeah ronnies got a gut, but dorian only has one arm, ronnie has no calves, but does have the glutes and hams. also he is symmetrical dorian only missing a bicep, but that ruins symmetry on a lot of poses. as for dryer, I don't see striated quads or glutes on dorian or striated triceps














but they both suck at posing whether it's ronnies "raising the roof" or dorians "piuroette"
Striations are not indicative of conditioning, dummy. Ronnie has striated glutes when hes 40lbs from contest weight, and only a complete retard thinks that striations = conditioning. lol.
You can simply look at the lower backs, Dorians is bone dry, Ronnies isnt.  ::)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #83 on: July 19, 2010, 06:52:39 PM »
i post pictures proving ronnie is better

then i hear a list of reasons why the pictures don't count, or how those were bad photos of dorian, to your standards the only "good" pictures you have to offer of dorian have all been morphed
I never said the photos were ' bad ' now you're reduced to lying , I said the pics are inaccurate and that's a fact and you're also reduced to deciding what I consider a good pic of Dorian and lying about me claiming any Yates morphed pic is ' good '


and I posted pictures proving Dorian is better , yet you purposely avoiding a response to this back shot , again these are NOT morphed , this is Ronnie at his best , and his back isn't as great as Dorian , it doesn't have Dorian's level of density & dryness or detail and thickness and separation , keep running from this proof


Hulkster

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #84 on: July 19, 2010, 06:53:06 PM »
LOL ND desperately trying to come up with ways to save his hero when real life destroys him:

Flower Boy Ran Away

Shockwave

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #85 on: July 19, 2010, 06:54:45 PM »
yeah ronnies got a gut, but dorian only has one arm, ronnie has no calves, but does have the glutes and hams. also he is symmetrical dorian only missing a bicep, but that ruins symmetry on a lot of poses. as for dryer, I don't see striated quads or glutes on dorian or striated triceps















but they both suck at posing whether it's ronnies "raising the roof" or dorians "piuroette"
Hes not talking about the routinesm, christ youre a noob.  Hes talking about actually hitting the poses to minize weak points.  ::)
Ronnie couldnt figure out how to pose to save the life of him, and youre stupid if you dont think that matters.

Nirvana

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #86 on: July 19, 2010, 06:55:05 PM »
Why cant you understand that the pics dont prove shit, that to YOU they prove it, but to ME, they show Dorian winning? Why cant you comprehend that? Are you dense? Did your mom drop you on your head as a child?
again you have to resort to insults.

look at the pics,

ronnie is bigger in all of them

ronnie is deeper and in better condition in all of them

ronnie is not missing any bodyparts in any of them


how do the pictures not prove ronnies superiority?

"the pictures don't count" is just an excuse you can't just refute all pictures with an excuse, eventually you just have to admit what you see and favorites aside ronnie is better

Nirvana

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #87 on: July 19, 2010, 06:58:23 PM »
I never said the photos were ' bad ' now you're reduced to lying , I said the pics are inaccurate and that's a fact and you're also reduced to deciding what I consider a good pic of Dorian and lying about me claiming any Yates morphed pic is ' good '


and I posted pictures proving Dorian is better , yet you purposely avoiding a response to this back shot , again these are NOT morphed , this is Ronnie at his best , and his back isn't as great as Dorian , it doesn't have Dorian's level of density & dryness or detail and thickness and separation , keep running from this proof


dorian is just as wide here but ronnie is deeper cut and more thick

I should have posted these pics earlier to prove ronnies supperior back detail

Palpatine Q

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #88 on: July 19, 2010, 06:58:39 PM »
And then he can just compare Ronnie 03 to Dorian precontest 95 where he is 283 lbs and Ronnie has NOT real advantage  ;D

Jesus fucking Christ give it a rest already.

There are a million pic that Ronnie looks better, there are a million pics where Dorian looks better.....it's personal preference.


You think Dorian is better...we get it


kwri298

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #89 on: July 19, 2010, 06:59:33 PM »
Dorian and Coleman had the best backs of all time.  The starter of this thread is trying to compare Coleman's back to the average bodybuilder in 2010, which is simply stupid.  How did this stupid thread (Coleman back vs 3rd tier bodybuilders) turn into a Dorian vs Coleman debate.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #90 on: July 19, 2010, 07:00:01 PM »
yeah ronnies got a gut, but dorian only has one arm, ronnie has no calves, but does have the glutes and hams. also he is symmetrical dorian only missing a bicep, but that ruins symmetry on a lot of poses. as for dryer, I don't see striated quads or glutes on dorian or striated triceps















but they both suck at posing whether it's ronnies "raising the roof" or dorians "piuroette"

Oh boy are we missing the entire fucking argument , it's Dorian at his BEST which many feel is 1993 precontest NO muscle tears and even post tear he's still good enough to beat Ronnie

If Dorian is missing an arm because his bicep his shorter than the other than Ronnie is missing two LEGS because his calves suck

go learn what symmetry is before commenting on it , as far as ass striations , Dorian has them , as well as triceps and quads? show me a pic of Ronnie with striated quads post 96 and good luck

and Ronnie's really , really sucks as posing , Dorian is much better NO Lee Labrada but correctly and effectively holding a mandatory pose Dorian is noticeably better to those who know what to look for .

Nirvana

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #91 on: July 19, 2010, 07:02:08 PM »
Striations are not indicative of conditioning, dummy. Ronnie has striated glutes when hes 40lbs from contest weight, and only a complete retard thinks that striations = conditioning. lol.
You can simply look at the lower backs, Dorians is bone dry, Ronnies isnt.  ::)

that's like saying that bodyfat percentage is not indicative of conditioning, it's like wiping before you shit, it just don't make no sense

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #92 on: July 19, 2010, 07:03:23 PM »
LOL ND desperately trying to come up with ways to save his hero when real life destroys him:



Proof kid it doesn't work in your favor  ;)

Shockwave

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #93 on: July 19, 2010, 07:03:40 PM »
again you have to resort to insults.

look at the pics,

ronnie is bigger in all of them

ronnie is deeper and in better condition in all of them

ronnie is not missing any bodyparts in any of them


how do the pictures not prove ronnies superiority?

"the pictures don't count" is just an excuse you can't just refute all pictures with an excuse, eventually you just have to admit what you see and favorites aside ronnie is better

Im insulting you because its like banging my head against a wall. You think you know how a contest is judged looking at the pics, but you dont know what the fuck youre talking about, and youre on here trying to tell us (People that KNOW how contests are judged) whats up, when you think "striations" = conditioning.  ::) And somehow I always let you bait me into arguing with you when every time im reminded of just how ignorant you are to things like conditioning.

I look at those pics, I see Dorian being drier, denser, thicker, and equal seperations, if not more, theyre just not as deep as Rons. (deep separations do not = conditioned either FYI) I see a Dorian at his peak that is better balanced, in better conditioning, and is just as larger except for 03, in which Ronnies conditioning was so bad (relatively speaking) that unless the judges went for pure size he would lose.

To you those pics prove Ron winning, because your Judging them on what you like? Why cant you wrap your head around this? I feel like im arguing with someone who got into bb a year ago.

FYI when I got into BB I thought Ron was the greates of all time, and I couldnt understand how people could think Dorian would beat him, but unlike you, I actually got off my ass and started looking things up and figuring out what the judging criteria was, and looked at people who were considered to have the best conditioning ever, and then it made sense to me. You just sound like an ignorant child.  ::)

Hulkster

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #94 on: July 19, 2010, 07:04:38 PM »
Quote
You can simply look at the lower backs, Dorians is bone dry, Ronnies isnt

LOL bone dry my ass ::)

dorian is famous for his wrinkles of flab, while ronnie is bone dry:

Flower Boy Ran Away

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #95 on: July 19, 2010, 07:05:11 PM »
that's like saying that bodyfat percentage is not indicative of conditioning, it's like wiping before you shit, it just don't make no sense
striations are genetic obviously you need good conditioning to see them , one can be striated and still be carrying a film of water of the muscle , please go learn about the subject before commenting with a matter of authority

Nirvana

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2010, 07:08:10 PM »
LOL ND desperately trying to come up with ways to save his hero when real life destroys him:






one more time as proof, nuff said love it or hate it this is reality, no more arguing

Shockwave

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #97 on: July 19, 2010, 07:08:25 PM »
that's like saying that bodyfat percentage is not indicative of conditioning, it's like wiping before you shit, it just don't make no sense
Yes it does, youre just to fucking stupid to understand it, Coleman has those same striationg when hes dieting down still holding 20lbs of fat and water, so HOW, pray tell, can they be indicitave of conditioning, Oh, wait, they cant, and with this statement you have proven to me how completely ignorant to bodybuilding you truely are. If you cant even grasp that concept, well, your fucking hopeless and im done arguing with you.

But in your head right now, youre telling yourself that it makes no sense, and that I just dont know what Im talking about.
Heres a hint... Go do some footwork and actually read up on what conditioning is, how contests are judged, and what bodybuilding is all about, then come back here and start arguing. Dont just look at a bunch of pics and think youve got everything figured out because you think Ronnie looks better when you look at a couple pics. lol.

Someone who looks at pics that HASNT researched how things work, vs someone that has, is going to see 2 completely different things. Educate yourself. Until then youre just wasting everyones time and being an asshole.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2010, 07:09:30 PM »
LOL bone dry my ass ::)

dorian is famous for his wrinkles of flab, while ronnie is bone dry:



Like I said fanboy proof isn't your friend  ;)

Dorian's lower back shits on Ronnies

Palpatine Q

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Re: Is Colemans back still special by todays standards??
« Reply #99 on: July 19, 2010, 07:10:45 PM »
striations are genetic obviously you need good conditioning to see them , one can be striated and still be carrying a film of water of the muscle , please go learn about the subject before commenting with a matter of authority

Everything in BBing is genetic you dope.

The guys with the better genetics win.

Being striated doesn't mean anything.... ::)

Unless of course Dorian was striated....then it would be "Look at those striations!!!!!!! he's shredded!!!!"  ;)