70% oppose Mosque at Ground Zero

[Dos Equis]

if there is anything illegal..then can it..as we should do a CHURCH in the same way...


People fuckin kill me...We are land of the free...and we also want to limit the freedoms of a certian few...freaking insane

They're apparently not complying with NY law.  

This thing just crosses the line in so many ways.  

[Option D]

While on a strict techincal point you may be correct,  

Additionally, I see this situation like I do the Westboro Bapitist people who protest soldier funerals by showing up with provacative signs.  Muslims who insist on such an offensive insult like this should not be surprised when they are held in the same regard as we do the Westboro Baptist mob.  

Just because you may have a legal right to do something, does not make it the right thing to do in the overall scheme of things.  If these muslims truly wanted to promote peace and moderation, placing this mess at WTC would be the last place to do it.  

  

but shouldnt we be strict...because when we start bluring the line...well we set precedents that can further be blurred


and the christian thing is a good point...those assholes are one sect of christians...who have it fucked up...we should treat muslims the same way

one crazy sect isnt the voice of all muslims and all muslims shouldnt be blamed for them...as you shouldnt be blamed for everything someone from the bronx does...

[Arnold jr]

Actually, I think "Liberals" have shown far more consistency than conservatives.
Isn't the republican conservative mantra all about religion, freedom, and restricting government interference in our lives. Yet here we have a huge portion of Republicans saying Americans shouldn't be free to build a house of worship. That's the hypocrisy I see. Where is the liberal hypocrisy you speak of?

Many people are missing the true arguments; this is not about freedom of religion. The argument is that these individuals who are building this mosque are a political entity, not a religious. This is a group that supports Sharia law, which has nothing to do with religious expression.

Questions to ask:

*Of everywhere to build this, why build it next to ground zero? Was this the only land available? Come on
*Why schedule the opening of the mosque on 9/11? Really? This isn't a means of slapping Americans in the face but you're opening the doors on 9/11?

[Arnold jr]

Greg Gutfeld of Fox News Channel and The Daily Gut has proposed the best response yet to Park51, a.k.a. Cordoba House, the 13-story “community center” and mosque two blocks away from Ground Zero: “I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/242916/greg-gutfelds-gay-bar-stephanie-gutmann

[Dos Equis]

Many people are missing the true arguments; this is not about freedom of religion. The argument is that these individuals who are building this mosque are a political entity, not a religious. This is a group that supports Sharia law, which has nothing to do with religious expression.

Questions to ask:

*Of everywhere to build this, why build it next to ground zero? Was this the only land available? Come on
*Why schedule the opening of the mosque on 9/11? Really? This isn't a means of slapping Americans in the face but you're opening the doors on 9/11?

Agree.  Good points.  Good questions. 

[Soul Crusher]

but shouldnt we be strict...because when we start bluring the line...well we set precedents that can further be blurred


and the christian thing is a good point...those assholes are one sect of christians...who have it fucked up...we should treat muslims the same way

one crazy sect isnt the voice of all muslims and all muslims shouldnt be blamed for them...as you shouldnt be blamed for everything someone from the bronx does...

The problem is that this Imam said we are responsible for 9/11 and his wife said this place will be used to convert people, etc etc.  

Legally they may have a right to do this, but I still think its a really crappy thing to do.  

Let's say we are next door neighbors and one of you relatives was killed by a member of the klan.  I then proceed to fly a confederate flag outside the house daily and dress my dog in a white sheet to run around the yard.  

While it may be my legal right to do that, it still is wrong on a moral, human, and common sense basis.  Additionally, what if I then told you my flying the conferate flag was to promote historical significance of the Civil War or some nonsense like that and then acted indignant when you were not happy with me?  

I see this as muslims exploiting a raw situation and disingeniously acting surprised that people are pissed off.  

Patterson gave them a clear opportunity to demonstrate good faith and they refused which says everything I need to know about this situation.  

My plan to spill pigs blood on the site is still on.  They want to insult me, fine, I will return the favor in kind.  

[240 is Back]

either you allow any religion to build there, or none.

if they don't meet the legal requirements, they can't build.  It's simple.

I'm referring to all the comments about any specific religion. 

[Option D]

Agree.  Good points.  Good questions. 

but if its not illegal...that ground isnt anti muslim or something...and just because the people who blew it up beleived in islam dosent damn the whole of islam...slave masters were christians...did blacks reject christianity...come on.,,,and im sure you wouldnt be opposed to a church being placed there...

What if there was a church built on the oklahoma city building site....it was bombed by a christian man...would you have a problem with that...absoutley not

[Soul Crusher]

either you allow any religion to build there, or none.

if they don't meet the legal requirements, they can't build.  It's simple.

I'm referring to all the comments about any specific religion. 

Fine, like I said, if the muslims push this obvious insult and provocation, they should not be surprised when the overwelhming amount of people hold them in the same regard that we do the  Westboro Baptist freaks.  

Additionally, these muslims pofs should not say a word about the gay bar going next door or when someone opens a piggly wiggly on the other side.  

I also think a good idea is to bury a dead pig in the cement like the Red Sox did to Yankee Stadium and then send a pic after the place is completed.  

[Soul Crusher]

but if its not illegal...that ground isnt anti muslim or something...and just because the people who blew it up beleived in islam dosent damn the whole of islam...slave masters were christians...did blacks reject christianity...come on.,,,and im sure you wouldnt be opposed to a church being placed there...

What if there was a church built on the oklahoma city building site....it was bombed by a christian man...would you have a problem with that...absoutley not

That is the most bogus analogy I hear all the time.  Show me where McVeigh claimed the bible and christianity, or any sect thereof, as his inspiration for bombing the building. 

[Dos Equis]

but if its not illegal...that ground isnt anti muslim or something...and just because the people who blew it up beleived in islam dosent damn the whole of islam...slave masters were christians...did blacks reject christianity...come on.,,,and im sure you wouldnt be opposed to a church being placed there...

What if there was a church built on the oklahoma city building site....it was bombed by a christian man...would you have a problem with that...absoutley not

Your hypotheticals are incomplete.  For example, regarding the OKC bombing, it would need to be a Christian religion that actively teaches jihad, believes federal workers are the da debil, carried out numerous attacks against federal workers killing hundreds and thousands, their members blow up the federal building, the leader of their group says they basically deserved to be slaughtered, the leader then tries to build his "Christian" church right near the sight, with an opening to coincide with the anniversary of the bombing, with unknown funding sources totalling nearly $100 million.  

Yeah, I'd have a problem with that.  

[SAMSON123]

Anything illegal? Hard to tell at this point, but there is some "strange" shit going on with the financing. Take Soho Properties for instance, the owners were waiters a few years ago and now they are paying millions in cash for properties. TCO's or CO's none to be found, something is seriously fucked up with this whole thing.

Uh yeah sounds exactly the same way Donald Trump orchestrated his business deal in New York, New Jersey and elsewhere. No on knew where he got the money from, no bank loaned him anything, yet structures and construction continued...Was there a MOB tie?, foreign backers? Drug? What? who knows, but the structures were built...

[SAMSON123]

August 11, 2010
Overwhelming majority oppose mosque near Ground Zero
Posted: August 11th, 2010 01:02 PM ET
www.cnn.com

________________________ ________________________ ____

(CNN) - A proposed mosque to be built two blocks from the World Trade Center has little support nationwide, a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll suggests.

According to the new survey out Wednesday, nearly 70 percent of all Americans oppose the controversial plan to build the mosque just blocks away from the solemn site in lower Manhattan while just 29 percent favor the construction.

Full results [pdf]

Broken down by party affiliation, 54 percent of Democrats oppose the plans while 82 percent of Republicans disapprove. Meanwhile, 70 percent of independents said they are against the proposal.

The poll also showed opposition did not vary widely by age.


"Support for the controversial project is slightly higher among younger Americans than older Americans, but even among those under the age of 50, six in ten oppose the plan," said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.

Plans to build the $100 million, 13-story 'Cordoba House' three blocks from the site of the attacks on September 11, 2001 have sparked an emotional debate throughout the city. The developer, Sharif El-Gamal, describes the project as an "Islamic community center" that will include a 500-seat performing arts center, a lecture hall, an exhibition space, a swimming pool, a gym, a culinary school, a restaurant and a prayer space for Muslims.

Full results (pdf)

Filed under: CNN Polls • CNN poll


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/11/overwhelming-majority-oppose-mosque-near-ground-zero/

Who in their right mind believes any polls conducted in or by america(ns)?

[tonymctones]

Who in their right mind believes any polls conducted in or by america(ns)?

LOL where you from samson?

[Kazan]

Uh yeah sounds exactly the same way Donald Trump orchestrated his business deal in New York, New Jersey and elsewhere. No on knew where he got the money from, no bank loaned him anything, yet structures and construction continued...Was there a MOB tie?, foreign backers? Drug? What? who knows, but the structures were built...

So your actually comparing Trump to a couple of guys that were waiting tables a few years ago

[24KT]

While on a strict techincal point you may be correct, its still a crappy thing for the muslims to do if their aim is to promte peace and harmony amongst different peoples.  Its like them pissing on peoples' graves and then wondering why they are despised.  

Additionally, I see this situation like I do the Westboro Bapitist people who protest soldier funerals by showing up with provacative signs.  Muslims who insist on such an offensive insult like this should not be surprised when they are held in the same regard as we do the Westboro Baptist mob.  

Just because you may have a legal right to do something, does not make it the right thing to do in the overall scheme of things.  If these muslims truly wanted to promote peace and moderation, placing this mess at WTC would be the last place to do it.  
  

What is the offensive insult you refer to? the desire to build a mosque and or cultural centre?
Also what is the mess you refer to? What mess.

I do not see the comparison between the desire to build a mosque and the Westboro Baptist Church.
Are the developers of the mosque picketing funerals? Are they getting in the faces of grieving relatives saying their deaths was god's punishment for {insert excuse of the day here}

Just about the only thing I can see that the developers of the mosque have in common with the Westboro Baptist Church, is that neither group appears to willingly embrace gays. But that's just an assumption on my part. You never know... the muslims might actually find their son to be neighbours at the gay bar a fun bunch to hang with, and they might find that 2nd floor non-alcoholic muslim friendly lounge a step towards greater cultural exchange and understanding. Stranger things have happened.

[tonymctones]

What is the offensive insult you refer to? the desire to build a mosque and or cultural centre?
Also what is the mess you refer to? What mess.

LMAO that you dont see the intentionally provacative and hurtful move that this is even though many muslims do...

[24KT]

Listen Twisted Sister, I didn't say anything about the Bible, Christians, conservatives, etc.  And I won't waste my time posting all of  your quotes again.  Everyone who regularly posts on this board knows what you have said and how sick you are.  I couldn't give a rip what you think about my character, etc.  Only one of us insulted a dead person's mother on this board.    

And yes, you are a hypocrite of the highest order.  But this thread isn't about you.  Or me.  

Aren't we a little hot under the collar tonight. You really know how to lower the level of discourse don't you.
Why the need for an ad hom attack? Why the need for name calling? So why did you try to make it personal?

[Soul Crusher]

What is the offensive insult you refer to? the desire to build a mosque and or cultural centre?
Also what is the mess you refer to? What mess.

I do not see the comparison between the desire to build a mosque and the Westboro Baptist Church.
Are the developers of the mosque picketing funerals? Are they getting in the faces of grieving relatives saying their deaths was god's punishment for {insert excuse of the day here}

Just about the only thing I can see that the developers of the mosque have in common with the Westboro Baptist Church, is that neither group appears to willingly embrace gays. But that's just an assumption on my part. You never know... the muslims might actually find their son to be neighbours at the gay bar a fun bunch to hang with, and they might find that 2nd floor non-alcoholic muslim friendly lounge a step towards greater cultural exchange and understanding. Stranger things have happened.

This mess is opening on 9/11/11 or 9/11/12 depending on when they can get moving on this.  Why is that?

[Dos Equis]

Aren't we a little hot under the collar tonight. You really know how to lower the level of discourse don't you.
Why the need for an ad hom attack? Why the need for name calling? So why did you try to make it personal?

Yawn. 

[SAMSON123]

The problem is that this Imam said we are responsible for 9/11 and his wife said this place will be used to convert people, etc etc.  

Legally they may have a right to do this, but I still think its a really crappy thing to do.  

Let's say we are next door neighbors and one of you relatives was killed by a member of the klan.  I then proceed to fly a confederate flag outside the house daily and dress my dog in a white sheet to run around the yard.  

While it may be my legal right to do that, it still is wrong on a moral, human, and common sense basis.  Additionally, what if I then told you my flying the conferate flag was to promote historical significance of the Civil War or some nonsense like that and then acted indignant when you were not happy with me?  

I see this as muslims exploiting a raw situation and disingeniously acting surprised that people are pissed off.  

Patterson gave them a clear opportunity to demonstrate good faith and they refused which says everything I need to know about this situation.  

My plan to spill pigs blood on the site is still on.  They want to insult me, fine, I will return the favor in kind.  

3 your analogies are so ridiculous and far removed from reality it is not even funny. You are continuing to try desperately to blame AN ENTIRE people for the action of an IMAGINARY few. You have yet to show me how 9 of the 19 imaginary hijackers are still alive  and in their respective countries as well as SUING AMERICA today over the slanderous accusation of being called terrorist and committing the controlled demolition of the WTC.

Despite all, the cowards continue to make up excuses for this MOSQUE, all the while hiding behind claims of safety, policies, regulations, codes etc etc...mind you a homosexual wants to build a GAY BAR next to the mosque and no one says a word about it... I guess quality of life, neighborhood safety, transvestites, transsexuals and the like don't matter, but God forbid one kneels down and prays before God/Allah. Maybe it will be a good thing to build a gay bar next to the mosque...the Imam will show them the vileness of their ways and convert them. With further luck the converted Muslim will strap a box of explosives to himself and go into the bar and bring it and any patrons to an end.

[24KT]

This mess is opening on 9/11/11 or 9/11/12 depending on when they can get moving on this.  Why is that?

Who knows, who cares? This isn't NHL hockey... you don't just hang the date up in the rafters of the arena.
So because on Sept 11, 2001 a horrific crime took place, that date must be forever retired in the future?
How about we just take it off the calendar completely. We could go from Sept 10^th to Sept 12^th, but no more 9/11?

What of the opening date? If the imam is purposely trying to piss people off, why are you so pissed off?
Why have you given so much of your power over to this man? Is he your spiritual leader or something?
the opening day is what it is. You can choose to give it significance in your life, occupy your thoughts... yet another distraction from important issues that really do need to be taken care of, ...or you can own your own mind.

[24KT]

3 your analogies are so ridiculous and far removed from reality it is not even funny. You are continuing to try desperately to blame AN ENTIRE people for the action of an IMAGINARY few. You have yet to show me how 9 of the 19 imaginary hijackers are still alive  and in their respective countries as well as SUING AMERICA today over the slanderous accusation of being called terrorist and committing the controlled demolition of the WTC.

Despite all, the cowards continue to make up excuses for this MOSQUE, all the while hiding behind claims of safety, policies, regulations, codes etc etc...mind you a homosexual wants to build a GAY BAR next to the mosque and no one says a word about it... I guess quality of life, neighborhood safety, transvestites, transsexuals and the like don't matter, but God forbid one kneels down and prays before God/Allah. Maybe it will be a good thing to build a gay bar next to the mosque...the Imam will show them the vileness of their ways and convert them. With further luck the converted Muslim will strap a box of explosives to himself and go into the bar and bring it and any patrons to an end.

Oh wow, I never thought of that.

Samson, do you really advocate terrorism, and the termination of innocent lives?

[Fury]

Oh wow, I never thought of that.

Samson, do you really advocate terrorism, and the termination of innocent lives?

Why don't you tell us, Samson, you dumb girl?

I've got to give you props for mucking up another thread involving Muslims with your idiocy and downright retardation, katwa. Congratulations, you truly are THE stupidest person on this forum. Can you give us a glimpse of what it's like to go through life as fucking stupid you are? Are simple tasks like tying your sneakers troublesome, SamsonEnterprises?

[Arnold jr]

Who knows, who cares? This isn't NHL hockey... you don't just hang the date up in the rafters of the arena.
So because on Sept 11, 2001 a horrific crime took place, that date must be forever retired in the future?
How about we just take it off the calendar completely. We could go from Sept 10^th to Sept 12^th, but no more 9/11?

What of the opening date? If the imam is purposely trying to piss people off, why are you so pissed off?
Why have you given so much of your power over to this man? Is he your spiritual leader or something?
the opening day is what it is. You can choose to give it significance in your life, occupy your thoughts... yet another distraction from important issues that really do need to be taken care of, ...or you can own your own mind.

You have to put the date into context of how Muslims function and live, the Muslim faith is one which places great importance on many dates and in the radical Muslim world 9/11 is considered a holy day of great celebration simply and only because of what they accomplished on that day.

There is no reason, none whatsoever for this mosque to be built where it is being built...see these bullet-points I placed in another thread below:

Things to consider:

*The mosque is being built in lower Manhattan which is primarily a business district, very few residence and of the very few people who live in this area, very few are Muslim.

*Most Muslims in the area live in Brooklyn. That's where the greatest concentration of Muslims are.

*If this Mosque is built by ground zero, those who would be the ones going to it, those that live in Brooklyn, would have to drive across the river, pass by numerous mosque that are already in use along the way, and fight downtown NY traffic just to get there.

*The Imam claims there is nowhere else to build this Mosque in a functional and prudent area, there is over 57.1million sqft of open available property on the island that would more than fill the requirements and further, would be in a place that is more suitable for those who would be attending.   

This whole thing stinks to high bullshit to the highest level! Oh yeah, I forgot, we're supposed to be tolerant, even if it's to the point of being tolerant to the point of absolute absurd stupidity.

Americans need to wake up, this has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with religious tolerance. Thankfully, most Americans in NY understand this. Further, it's not an argument of left in right, in the city of NY, a very liberal population, a strong majority, very strong see this for what it is.