Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe

[War-Horse]

here is another 1
secret space : from the Nazis to today
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1485155465058882626#

www.bfro.net         Bigfoots are more interesting...      SOme say ufos are tied to them somehow...

[ToxicAvenger]

www.bfro.net         Bigfoots are more interesting...      SOme say ufos are tied to them somehow...

perhaps...i've heard such claims..ditto with cattle mutilations etc

[Devon97]

LOL yea ok guys. We're all just here by "mistake" 

[YngiweRhoads]

if you had just taken the time to read 1 post above the one you posted...anyhow i'll cope and paste it again for you..this time in bold

i dont believe i have a soul ...unless otherwise proved....

i have an open mind...but right now i see no evidence proving the existence of god or a soul inside of me

Yep, I agree with you Toxic.

Having an open mind means evaluating the data presented and forming an hypothesis. It doesn't mean giving credence to ridiculous unsubstantiated assumptions. Only placebos require faith.

Evidence supports the theory that the Universe has always existed in some form. The Singularity being another state of the Universe. 'Something' appears to be the nature of reality, not 'nothing'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

Spontaneous existence has been shown to occur in nature. No 'god' needed. As Hawking's statement implies; not that there is no 'god', but rather, that a god is unnecessary for the formation of the Universe. His reasoning is somewhat different though, to my understanding. *I haven't read his book and therefore can't comment directly on his statement*

According to quantum mechanics, the vacuum state is not truly empty but instead contains fleeting electromagnetic waves and particles that pop into and out of existence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_state

It also appears that life is probably unavoidable, if not inevitable.

[ThaRealist]

LOL yea ok guys. We're all just here by "mistake" 

Well let me ask you why sea animals felt the need to evolve to come on land?? Proven link between land and sea animals??

[tbombz]

Yep, I agree with you Toxic.

Having an open mind means evaluating the data presented and forming an hypothesis. It doesn't mean giving credence to ridiculous unsubstantiated assumptions. Only placebos require faith.

Evidence supports the theory that the Universe has always existed in some form. The Singularity being another state of the Universe. 'Something' appears to be the nature of reality, not 'nothing'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

Spontaneous existence has been shown to occur in nature. No 'god' needed. As Hawking's statement implies; not that there is no 'god', but rather, that a god is unnecessary for the formation of the Universe. His reasoning is somewhat different though, to my understanding. *I haven't read his book and therefore can't comment directly on his statement*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_state

It also appears that life is probably unavoidable, if not inevitable.

my belief in god started out of logic. but since then it has evolved and now it lies in more than logic, but in personal experience. you can never know god untill you believe in him. i dont believe in eternal life, i know i will die someday. i hope god has made death something that is not uncomfortable, but i dont know. howver i do know that through prayer i have been able to communicate with god and my quality of life has improved twelve fold. you really can have a relationship with god, and he can help you understand things you would have never understood. trust me, i think you know i am not some stupid repuplican bible touting idiot with no intellect.. i wouldnt lie to you. and i wouldnt fall for placebo effect either.

[YngiweRhoads]

my belief in god started out of logic. but since then it has evolved and now it lies in more than logic, but in personal experience. you can never know god untill you believe in him. i dont believe in eternal life, i know i will die someday. i hope god has made death something that is not uncomfortable, but i dont know. howver i do know that through prayer i have been able to communicate with god and my quality of life has improved twelve fold. you really can have a relationship with god, and he can help you understand things you would have never understood. trust me, i think you know i am not some stupid repuplican bible touting idiot with no intellect.. i wouldnt lie to you. and i wouldnt fall for placebo effect either.

I'm sure you have very good reasons for you faith tbombz, though the image of you as a bible toting fundamentalist repub, a la McQuay is pretty humourous.  

Again, most evidence seems to suggest the absence of a creator with regards to existence. I can't accept the notion of a creator when causal relations are inferred, not perceived. Perhaps something will change in the future in this respect, however unlikely that may be, but Hawking still shouldn't be vilified for his, in all likelihood, misconstrued comment, nor do I believe it is even newsworthy. Sensationalism to garner viewers and readership imo.

[grab an umbrella]

Yep, I agree with you Toxic.

Having an open mind means evaluating the data presented ands forming an hypothesis. It doesn't mean giving credence too ridiculous unsubstantiated assumptions. Only placebos require faith.

Evidence supports the theory that the Universe has always existed in some form. The Singularity being another state of the Universe. 'Something' appears to be the nature of reality, not 'nothing'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

Spontaneous existence has been shown to occur in nature. No 'god' needed. As Hawking's statement implies; not that there is no 'god', but rather, that a god is unnecessary for the formation of the Universe. His reasoning is somewhat different though, to my understanding. *I haven't read his book and therefore can't comment directly on his statement*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_state

It also appears that life is probably unavoidable, if not inevitable.

We know so little about science, its a bit ridiculous to try amd make informed decisions based on such little knowledge.

[Immortal_Technique]

Many people take comfort in the presence of a 'God'. I take comfort in the absolute certainty it's all made up.

However if something terrible happened to me, a berievement or something, who knows what higher power I might feel inclined to fabricate for myself in a search for an explanation. In this sense aetheism is a luxury of the middle to upper classes in more developed countries where less horrible shit happens. And communists of course.

[ToxicAvenger]

Yep, I agree with you Toxic.

Having an open mind means evaluating the data presented and forming an hypothesis. It doesn't mean giving credence to ridiculous unsubstantiated assumptions. Only placebos require faith.

Evidence supports the theory that the Universe has always existed in some form. The Singularity being another state of the Universe. 'Something' appears to be the nature of reality, not 'nothing'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

Spontaneous existence has been shown to occur in nature. No 'god' needed. As Hawking's statement implies; not that there is no 'god', but rather, that a god is unnecessary for the formation of the Universe. His reasoning is somewhat different though, to my understanding. *I haven't read his book and therefore can't comment directly on his statement*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_state

It also appears that life is probably unavoidable, if not inevitable.

you need to read up on brane theory..where membranes exist in more than 4 dimensions and the collision of these membranes sparks a new universe>spontaneous creation DOES happen...like outside black holes when delectrons get sucked into the black hole and an anti election pops out of no where (positron) and heads in the opposite direction to conserve the mass of the universe...we detect black holes using this radiation aptly called Hawkings radiation since if ws him who predicted it..i've been reading and rereading
A brief History of time since high school
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

you can also youtube brian greenes "the elegant universe"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/elegant-universe-einstein.html   pretty good show on string theory

[ToxicAvenger]

you can never know god untill you believe in him. 

if you give me 1 million dollars i can quadruple it for you...you only have to believe...

o yeah...you can also fly if you jump off a building but REALLY TRULY believe you can on the way down...just like the matrix

god has made death something that is not uncomfortable

as for god making death not uncomfortable...i guess if its not uncomfortable..we really dont have to feel bad for the 911 victims and our soldiers in iraq huh

[ToxicAvenger]

Many people take comfort in the presence of a 'God'. I take comfort in the absolute certainty it's all made up.

 And communists of course.

hitler and his followers actually believed in "vril" energy...

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Vril_Society.htm

[YngiweRhoads]

you need to read up on brane theory..where membranes exist in more than 4 dimensions and the collision of these membranes sparks a new universe>spontaneous creation DOES happen...like outside black holes when delectrons get sucked into the black hole and an anti election pops out of no where (positron) and heads in the opposite direction to conserve the mass of the universe...we detect black holes using this radiation aptly called Hawkings radiation since if ws him who predicted it..i've been reading and rereading
A brief History of time since high school
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

Yes, I own a well worn copy of BHoT myself. I may pick up his latest book too, which apparently has people so riled up.

you can also youtube brian greenes "the elegant universe"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/elegant-universe-einstein.html   pretty good show on string theory

I'm pretty sure I've seen it before, but a refresher would be nice. Thanks man.

[ToxicAvenger]

Yes, I own a well worn copy of BHoT myself. I may pick up his latest book too, which apparently has people so riled up.

the recent books i have seen of him are dummed down versions of the original...i think at this point he is getting old and  is vying for attention to make $ before he retires

I'm pretty sure I've seen it before, but a refresher would be nice. Thanks man

.

you're welcome!

[EwaBeachBoy]

Because no one come to the father except thru the son.  BUT Jesus stated many times that his father waas afar greater entity than himself and that he only had the priveledge of representing him on earth.   So Jesus is not to be worshiped......just respected.   Almighty GOD is to be worshipped.   But it is your choice.

Dont you believe in UFOs tox?

War Horse, you are so wrong. Jesus does deserve to be worshipped:

*Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
*Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”
*Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”
*Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”
*John 9:38 “Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Jesus never rebuked peopel for worshipping him. He said, " I and the Father are one".

Jesus claimed to be the son of God but also God.

If you read the Bible, people tried to worship Peter but Peter rebuked them told them not to worship him (Peter) because he himself is just a man:
Acts 10:24-26  “On the day after that he entered into Caes·a·re'a. Cornelius, of course, was expecting them and had called together his relatives and intimate friends. As Peter entered, Cornelius met him, fell down at his feet and did obeisance to him. But Peter lifted him up, saying: “Rise; I myself am also a man.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[EwaBeachBoy]

The Bible says that God created everything but it also says this about Jesus:

“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” (John 1:3). This includes all the stars, all the original animals and plants, and even the angels (Colossians 1:15-17).

If God created everything and the Bible says that without Jesus nothing was made....what does that tell you? That Jesus is God

For us to know the true nature of God makes it laughable.

The exciting truth is that Jesus is now also a man, and will remain so for all eternity. He humbled himself to become like one of his own creations. He chose to become a man to help us in an extremely important way. This amazing event happened about 2-thousand years ago. The results have changed the world forever.

As a man, God experienced the same temptations that we feel (Hebrews 2:18). He suffered the same kind of physical pains that we suffer with. He also experienced emotional pain. He even wept about the city of Jerusalem (John 11:35). He was ignored, unappreciated, unloved, misunderstood, and even despised—even though he did nothing wrong, and always loved everyone (1 Peter 2:23). Not only is Jesus Christ the greatest man that ever lived; he is our Creator. He deserves all glory and honor!



Agaian, Jesus said he and the Father are one...what does this tell you?

[Tito24]

i believe in your mom

[EwaBeachBoy]

And also for Stephen Hawkings to claim that there is no God and that evolution and chance to create anything; this means that there are no such things as laws or boundaries.

This means that there is no such thing as love, no moral code, that we are nothing but animals.

If we are here by chance, why are their laws, why do people know what is right or wrong? Deep inside we have a moral code. We know that if we kill someone, we feel guilt and know it is wrong. We know that sleeping wiht an animla is not natural or committing adultery is wrong..

We are not here by chance.

I know it is wrong to hate black people. How do I know, the Bible told me so... to hate another man because of the color of his skin is wrong.

Stephen Hawkins even though he is intelligent is also blind of the truth.

Maybe if evolution is true, someone should kill this fag. It wold show evolution is true...survival of the fittest just like Hitler preached. But you know what? Evolution is not true because where there is faith, their is love and human kindness and compassion....thats why he lives today event hoguh according to evolution, he should be ddead

[MAXX]

And also for Stephen Hawkings to claim that there is no God and that evolution and chance to create anything; this means that there are no such things as laws or boundaries.

This means that there is no such thing as love, no moral code, that we are nothing but animals.

If we are here by chance, why are their laws, why do people know what is right or wrong? Deep inside we have a moral code. We know that if we kill someone, we feel guilt and know it is wrong. We know that sleeping wiht an animla is not natural or committing adultery is wrong..

We are not here by chance.

I know it is wrong to hate black people. How do I know, the Bible told me so... to hate another man because of the color of his skin is wrong.

Stephen Hawkins even though he is intelligent is also blind of the truth.

Maybe if evolution is true, someone should kill this fag. It wold show evolution is true...survival of the fittest just like Hitler preached. But you know what? Evolution is not true because where there is faith, their is love and human kindness and compassion....thats why he lives today event hoguh according to evolution, he should be ddead

why don't you post under your real account? 

[Tapeworm]

why don't you post under your real account? 

MAXX NO!!  LOOKOUT!!

[War-Horse]

beachboy, you have a basic understanding but not complete.

1st. No where in the bible does Jesus equate equal power to his Father almighty GOD.  Yes they are one in purpose and harmony the same way you and i may root for the same football team at the sports bar.....camaraderie,same goals etc.

2nd. People wanted to worship Jesus as a child but what did he say as he beacame a man.....Luke 4:8  He resented even being called Good teacher as it took credit from his father....Matt 10:18

3rd. Yes he is the Word of God as he represents GODS purpose for mankind but you misquote that he was not God...but a god. different.

4th. Yes Jesus was created directly By ALMIGHTY GOD thus his firstborn creation. And then thru his fathers power Jesus created all things after. Col 1:15,  Isaiah 44:6

Those that believe in the complex idea of the trinity are making it hard for themselves.  If you use the bible as a whole you can see they are 2 persons that have love for humankind and want the suffering to end. (which it will soon at armageddon) The 3rd entity is simply the holy spirit but it doesnt exist on its own as it is GODS powerful force to make things happen.....its not a person.


Im off to the gym. take care.

[Natural Man]

LOL yea ok guys. We're all just here by "mistake" 

you for sure are.




now on a serious note, there is nothing such as a mistake or even sucess. These are all concepts built by the human mind. Mistake, failures = death to animals, sucess = survival. It  sounds quite different for us humans but basically it means the same thing. Everytime you fail you feel very bad cause you know it means you re not able to survive somehow, when others do.

Instinct of survival underlies EVERYTHING. Our whole intelligence exists for the purpose to execute what our instinct of survival tells us to do. The frontal lobes of the human are only here to allow him to anticipate , project himself into the future, understand things that will allow him to have better chances of survival.

[EwaBeachBoy]

beachboy, you have a basic understanding but not complete.

1st. No where in the bible does Jesus equate equal power to his Father almighty GOD.  Yes they are one in purpose and harmony the same way you and i may root for the same football team at the sports bar.....camaraderie,same goals etc.

2nd. People wanted to worship Jesus as a child but what did he say as he beacame a man.....Luke 4:8  He resented even being called Good teacher as it took credit from his father....Matt 10:18

3rd. Yes he is the Word of God as he represents GODS purpose for mankind but you misquote that he was not God...but a god. different.

4th. Yes Jesus was created directly By ALMIGHTY GOD thus his firstborn creation. And then thru his fathers power Jesus created all things after. Col 1:15,  Isaiah 44:6

Those that believe in the complex idea of the trinity are making it hard for themselves.  If you use the bible as a whole you can see they are 2 persons that have love for humankind and want the suffering to end. (which it will soon at armageddon) The 3rd entity is simply the holy spirit but it doesnt exist on its own as it is GODS powerful force to make things happen.....its not a person.


Im off to the gym. take care.

War-Horse, you have a basic understanding, but very off and not complete and you are taking many things out of context! You saying that Jesus was a god not God is blasphemy. According to the 10 commandments , it says that you are to have no other gods because the Lord thy God is a jealous God. But yet wait, you say he is a god.

Jesus did in fact claimed to be God. Thats why his people the jews tried to stone him on many different occassions.

Is Jesus God? He said he was equal to God.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad." The people said, "You aren't even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!" At that point they picked up stones to throw at him. But Jesus was hidden from them and left the Temple.4

"The Father and I are one." Once again the people picked up stones to kill him. Jesus said, "At my Father's direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?" They replied, "We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God."5

Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!" Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"8


Others were convinced that Jesus was God:
Paul: "Christ is the visible image of the invisible God."1
John: "He existed in the beginning with God."2
Peter: "you must worship Christ as Lord of your life."3

If the disciples knew who Jesus really was, why dont you? Because you are not a true disciple and you do not knwo who the real Jesus is. Jesus is God in human form. God put himself in a man;s body and died for us to pay the ultimate price. God  came down in human form and lived among us without sin so he can be sin so he can give us everlasting life

[EwaBeachBoy]

More proof that jesus is God:

This Messiah would be born a human son, but have a higher nature
Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

This was a radical statement coming from a monotheistic Jewish prophet -- especially calling a human being “Mighty God”; but one that God fulfilled centuries later in Christ.


Thomas’ response to the resurrected Jesus
John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"

This disciple realized, because of Jesus’ resurrection, who Jesus really was -- and humbly worshiped Him and declared His true identity: “My Lord and my God!” Jesus not only accepts this declaration, but blesses all of the disciples -- and all of us today -- who come to the same realization and place of humble worship.

Jesus accepted worship from His disciples
Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”

In a Jewish culture, only the one true God can be worshiped; their actions show that they acknowledged Jesus as being divine. And Jesus didn’t correct them or say, “Don’t you realize that I’m just a mortal prophet? Stop worshiping me!” Rather, He accepted their worship, knowing He really was God in human flesh.

[Man of Steel]

There is zero point in debating about God on Getbig.  It's about as pointless as insisting that I lift a mountain with my mind.

I have never seen a non-believer become a believer or a believer become a non-believer within a Getbig "debate God" thread.  We have some good minds on Getbig (both for and against God), but I've never seen anyone persuaded to change their belief systems.  At best these threads leave both parties with questions that they can seek out answers for on their own, but otherwise it's pointless.  Most believers present extremely weak, unsupported, faith-based arguments that do nothing to assist the non-believer and most non-believers are so entrenched in man-made ideology that they could speak with Christ himself and not be satisfied....these debates never, ever work within the thread.  I took the argument offline, read a numbers of books, educated myself and strengthened my faith in the process.  That was the only benefit of these types of threads.