Who here is a mechanical engineer or studying to become one?

[haider]

anyway, i'm out for the night.

behave yourself boys 

[lovemonkey]

the theory of evolution is based off of the principle of natural selection....which  states the strong in the species survive, reproduce, and have strong off spring.  this process does NOT improve the species beyond what it is, but only PRESERVES the species.  the animal isnt getting better and better.  

for example, if you have two perfect dogs, and then they mate, and their offspring are only 90% as good as the parents, then the offspring mate, etc.. etc. etc..  and so you haev some dogs that are 30, 40, 60, 80, 90 % strong / fit / etc.  the ones that have the better genetics will be more likely to survive / reproduce, BUT, they will not be better than the original.  

somehow with evolution, they think overtime - the secret ingredient - that things will not only get better, but change from one kind of animal to another.  

Have you read "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins? It's not so much about the species rather than the genes themselves. We the organisms are mere survival machines for the genes.

I guess I could agree with you that animals are not getting better(a very subjective term) but they certainly do adapt or get selected over time. BUT in the end it's the genes that stick around, not the animals.

[The True Adonis]

yet you stated the simplest of things about evolution wrong?

you're a bright guy, I'm sure... so I have doubt about your sources here.

LOL@ you think he is a bright guy.

You are a wishy washy religious apologist so this is to be somewhat expected.  Perhaps you should jump on Noahs Ark as well and sail into Riyadh and just detonate yourself with the rest of the idiots.

[lovemonkey]

EDIT: "Worse" in evolutionary/biological terms and disorder in physics are not at all related. Diseases are organisms too. Viruses are certainly not a form of "disorder". They're getting better at what they do and we constantly have to improve our defense against them.

Kind of curios to see you explain your argument around this.

[The True Adonis]

Have you read "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins? It's not so much about the species rather than the genes themselves. We the organisms are mere survival machines for the genes.

I guess I could agree with you that animals are not getting better(a very subjective term) but they certainly do adapt or get selected over time. BUT in the end it's the genes that stick around, not the animals.

Don`t waste your time with him, its useless which is why I won`t even bother.  Let his delusion persist, its more amusing that way.

Also, DO NOT go into Engineering unless you want to be in the company of Terrorists and Christian Creationists.  Its brim filled with these morons.

Choose Science, History, Literature......ANYTHING but this SHITBRAIN field.  I am warning you.

[225for70]

it always come back to the same question.....So how did we get here???

[The True Adonis]

Kind of curios to see you explain your argument around this.

Don`t waste your time with this SHITBRAIN.  Its useless.  I don`t bother debating with Creationists at all and neither does Richard Dawkins.  

[The True Adonis]

it always come back to the same question.....So how did we get here???

LOL@ you for thinking Homo Sapiens have "always been here".


It really is useless with you people.  Oh how education has failed.  I weep for the future.  With such an influx of factual, irrefutable evidence, information and the ease of accessibility to  it, you and the others choose to remain unlit and totally in the dark in a state of perpetual and willfull ignorance.

What the fuck is wrong with you people.  Seriously?

[chaos]

Furniture? You ship to CA? Got a website I can see what's available?

PM me if you're serious.

Hey TA I know you're real busy trying to troll right now, but could you answer my questions?

[The True Adonis]

Hey TA I know you're real busy trying to troll right now, but could you answer my questions?

Yah I could help you out.. Also, the Furniture Market is nearly here and if you could make it over here next week, you can get some incredible deals.  A LOT of celebrities and their agents etc.. come into town this week and next for the market for the deals.  I`d say wait a week after market to get the leftovers and the samples.  You could easily score a 10 grand plus leather sofa for a few hundred dollars.  Thats the type of deals we are talking about.  Google "Furniture Market" and see what I mean.

[Deicide]

Mutations are usually harmful, that is true. The useful ones are the one that make it through. Evoultionary theory does not speak of improvement, it speaks of adaption; they are not the same; adpation can occur at the cost of something else. Example; human beings' vocal organs evolved in concert with the development of language at the cost of the ability to both eat and breathe at the same time; other mammals can do both simultaneously. It was a trade off and one which results in hundreds of choking related deaths each year.

ill try to give you a simple example lovemonkey,and maybe youll see my point.

most evolutionists use mutations as a possible way of evolution "betterment" occurring.  this is false though...even in bacteria / viruses / etc.  

if for example, everyone in your city was to be handcuffed, so they went through and handcuffed everyone...but there were some people with no arms, so tehy couldnt be handcuffed.  are these people somehow superior to the people with arms?  of course not, they just happen to have a negative mutation that allowd them to escape the immediate problem.  

if you have a bacteria / virus that has a few mutations, and you take some medicine that kills off 98% of the bacteria, but the mutations survive...not b/c they are better, but b/c they have a defect (similar to the arm example), these mutations then multiply and all of a sudden people will say well it evolved!!!  no, it just had a defect that allowed it to be better for the temporary against the medicine.  

you ever seen a guy with 6 fingers?  i have. &guy was useless.  what about a cow with 5 legs, etc.  are any of the mutations you've ever seen actually better than the original?  mutations within proteins (prions) can cause mad cow disease, etc.  mutations are not a way to evolve to get better, they are for the worse.  they can be beneficial momentarily, but that doesnt make them better.  btw, these mutations can only mutate what is ALREADY in the genetic code.  you cant get a fin on a horse, etc.  wont happen.  you can grow a 6th finger, but you wont grow gills no matter how much you mutate.  its impossible b/c its not even in your genetic code.  if perhaps you could interbreed with something that had it in its code, tehn you could get these traits, but again, it cant be done.  a zebra and a horse can breed ...you get a zorse.  but they are the same 'kind' of animal.  a zebra cant breed with a hippo.  

[225for70]

LOL@ you for thinking Homo Sapiens have "always been here".


It really is useless with you people.  Oh how education has failed.  I weep for the future.  With such an influx of factual, irrefutable evidence, information and the ease of accessibility to  it, you and the others choose to remain unlit and totally in the dark in a state of perpetual and willfull ignorance.

What the fuck is wrong with you people.  Seriously?

Fucking Moron...

i never said we have always been here?

[The True Adonis]

Mutations are usually harmful, that is true. The useful ones are the one that make it through. Evoultionary theory does not speak of improvement, it speaks of adaption; they are not the same; adpation can occur at the cost of something else. Example; human beings' vocal organs evolved in concert with the development of language at the cost of the ability to both eat and breathe at the same time; other mammals can do both simultaneously. It was a trade off and one which results in hundreds of choking related deaths each year.

Don`t waste your time my friend.  Seriously, its hopeless.  He has the Engineer SHITBRAIN disease.  

[lovemonkey]

ill try to give you a simple example lovemonkey,and maybe youll see my point.

most evolutionists use mutations as a possible way of evolution "betterment" occurring.  this is false though...even in bacteria / viruses / etc.  

if for example, everyone in your city was to be handcuffed, so they went through and handcuffed everyone...but there were some people with no arms, so tehy couldnt be handcuffed.  are these people somehow superior to the people with arms?  of course not, they just happen to have a negative mutation that allowd them to escape the immediate problem.  

if you have a bacteria / virus that has a few mutations, and you take some medicine that kills off 98% of the bacteria, but the mutations survive...not b/c they are better, but b/c they have a defect (similar to the arm example), these mutations then multiply and all of a sudden people will say well it evolved!!!  no, it just had a defect that allowed it to be better for the temporary against the medicine.  

you ever seen a guy with 6 fingers?  i have. &guy was useless.  what about a cow with 5 legs, etc.  are any of the mutations you've ever seen actually better than the original?  mutations within proteins (prions) can cause mad cow disease, etc.  mutations are not a way to evolve to get better, they are for the worse.  they can be beneficial momentarily, but that doesnt make them better.  btw, these mutations can only mutate what is ALREADY in the genetic code.  you cant get a fin on a horse, etc.  wont happen.  you can grow a 6th finger, but you wont grow gills no matter how much you mutate.  its impossible b/c its not even in your genetic code.  if perhaps you could interbreed with something that had it in its code, tehn you could get these traits, but again, it cant be done.  a zebra and a horse can breed ...you get a zorse.  but they are the same 'kind' of animal.  a zebra cant breed with a hippo.  

You just explained some of the basic stuff that goes on in evolution but you fail to understand the bigger picture  
With regards to your handcuff example, think of a lizard that doesn't need its legs anymore and boom you end up with the early version of a snake. Let go of the terms "evolved" or "better". It's more long term adaption. Genes that produces unnecessary traits in a particular environment will have a disadvantage against other organisms that are better fitted at that time. How is this concept so hard to grasp? There were no original animals, only self replicating molecules that eventually formed into survival machines when resources became scarce.

If you have read tons of literature on the subject I guess there's not much I can do to convince you of anything else.

[The True Adonis]

Fucking Moron...

i never said we have always been here?

Sorry about that.  Just had to draw you out to see if you were on our team or Team ShitBrain.

I am glad we can count you amongst our ranks.  Right?

[Deicide]

You just explained some of the basic stuff that goes on in evolution but you fail to understand the bigger picture  
With regards to your handcuff example, think of a lizard that doesn't need its legs anymore and boom you end up with the early version of a snake. Let go of the terms "evolved" or "better". It's more long term adaption. Genes that produces unnecessary traits in a particular environment will have a disadvantage against other organisms that are better fitted at that time. How is this concept so hard to grasp? There were no original animals, only self replicating molecules that eventually formed into survival machines when resources became scarce.

If you have read tons of literature on the subject I guess there's not much I can do to convince you of anything else.

This what I was getting at. Well said. 

[225for70]

Sorry about that.  Just had to draw you out to see if you were on our team or Team ShitBrain.

I am glad we can count you amongst our ranks.  Right?

That Ok...I'm 100% atheist BTW...

[Tapeworm]

How you guys managed to get to this from thermodynamics is beyond me.

Thermodynamics - movement of heat.  It does not apply to a value judgement of 'things getting better or worse.'  

You fuckiing suck you second grader.

Lol.  TA, are you drunk right now?!  

[The True Adonis]

That Ok...I'm 100% atheist BTW...

Very good!  Therefore none of what I said applies to you and I am quite glad.  Don`t you find Team Shitbrain sadly amusing?

[The True Adonis]

How you guys managed to get to this from thermodynamics is beyond me.

Thermodynamics - movement of heat.  It does not apply to a value judgement of 'things getting better or worse.'  



Lol.  TA, are you drunk right now?!  

Incredibly I am not inebriated despite my rather crass choice of words as of late.  In my defense there are some concord grapes fermenting in my wooden contraption that will result in wine in a few days.  I am not sure what to expect as this is my very first foray into winemaking.  A trial run if you will.  Adonis Vineyards 2010. 

[225for70]

Very good!  Therefore none of what I said applies to you and I am quite glad.  Don`t you find Team Shitbrain sadly amusing?

He's entitled to opinion..However, he mentions the word logic..However, i don't know how you can use logic and believe in god..

[Tapeworm]

"The freeway was sheer entropy all the way home.  Damn you for making me late for dinner, thermodynamics!"

[225for70]

Incredibly I am not inebriated despite my rather crass choice of words as of late.  In my defense there are some concord grapes fermenting in my wooden contraption that will result in wine in a few days.  I am not sure what to expect as this is my very first foray into winemaking.  A trial run if you will.  Adonis Vineyards 2010. 

I have a small vineyard in my yard that my dad started...I'm in the north East....The grapes are good..However, these grapes make terrible wine..

[The True Adonis]

Allright kiddies I am off to bed to finish reading some Cormac McCarthy.

[The True Adonis]

I have a small vineyard in my yard that my dad started...I'm in the north East....The grapes are good..However, these grapes make terrible wine..

Yah this is just a trial to see if all of my spigots and barrel work.  I didn`t want to waste anything and figured due to sugar content, these grapes would ferment and develop very fast, just enough to test out the equipment.

If everything is in working order, I will probably dump this wine and move to Muscadines as they are coming in right now.