Author Topic: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?  (Read 44762 times)

First Blood

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2010, 06:18:49 AM »
to summarize: did you prove anything? NO are you basing any of your beliefs on facts? NO

that is not correct. I did prove that testosterone was around in the 40s. that is a fact. it was mentioned in in health/bodybuilding literature already in the late 30s. that is a fact. so some bodybuilders knew about testosterone (long) before ziegler started experimenting with it, that is also a fact.

to be honest, I don't like your way of discussing things ND, seems to me that the only thing that matters to you is to get the last word and to be stubborn. I think anyone who reads this will realize that as testosterone was around long before ziegler played around with it the chances are high that bodybuilders experimented with it. and to clarify once again; does that mean that I can prove with hard evidence that reeves used it. no. never claimed I could.

Cableguy

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #101 on: December 02, 2010, 10:13:00 AM »
The best shape I've been in was when I was about 28. I was training with my friend Eloy Rivera. He competed in a few local contests. He admitted to doing a cyle once, but didn't like it. He said he got stronger, but very bloated. When I trained with him, he was about 175 and lean at 5'9. Very good muscle shape and genetics, very aesthetic. He kept a very clean diet, ate only chicken, fish, brown rice and veggies. Showed visible striations in his quads and tris when he was really lean. And I don't think he could afford gear at the time.

Except for my legs, I don't have more than average genetics. And rotator issues limit me from training as hard and heavy as I would like. When I trained with him, I was about 160 at 5'7" 1/2 with visible abs and around a 29" waist. But that's after training hard and consistantly and eating clean 6 days a week. At 48, I'm about 175 with a 32' waist right now. I'm sure if I trained as hard and consistantly as I did back then and ate cleanly, I could get back to what I was back then. As it is, I look way better than 98% of these fat fucks I see that are my age, lol. Most mistake me for being in my mid 30's. Definitely is a plus when it comes to pussy...  :)
So I think Reeve's chart is pretty acurate for the most part.  

Ursus

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #102 on: December 02, 2010, 10:16:29 AM »
If I lost 10-15lbs of fat (Which I could do) I would fall pretty much into Reeve's guidelines.

MrUniverse

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2010, 12:53:43 PM »
This is GH15

oldtimer1

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2010, 03:09:19 PM »
Steve Reeves was built from when he was 16 to his 60's until he had health problems.  Was he juicing at 16? There are pictures of him back as a young teenager.   He was built during World War II.  His nick name in the military was the "Shape."  Was he juicing during war? 

If there were no bodybuilding drugs he would go down as one of the best of all time.  The last time he competed was over 50 years ago and yet he is still spoken about in todays bodybuilding circles.  In another 50 he will still be talked about. 

dj181

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2010, 03:35:42 PM »
There is something else that you fellas are kinda glossing over, and that is that he was an ultra-handsome dude (no homo)

Ursus

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2010, 03:37:28 PM »
His shoulders looked insanely wide in clothes but I have never seen a picture of him where his shoulders looked anywhere near as big out of clothes as in clothes.

noworries

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2010, 03:49:19 PM »
lee and i hate eachother with passion,,he is a liar the worst in history of bodybuilkding one of the worst,,and mishko...well mishko talk for himself with his action of arrested every monday and friday he go with the flow btu he very well know im right,, who the fuck is nodic? gimik? do you think i hav etime to get gimicks my friend ,,if i had a dime for how many times every one immitate me proclaimingto be me trying to get in touch with me ,,trying to ask for my advice ,,and trying to say gh15 send me or said so,, id be even richer than what i am now,,

the reality of things is the any professional face to face if really know you will tell you gh15 is the real deal ,,and reason im anonimous is because my life would be at risk otherwise,,there is no friend in bodybuilding you need ot know it,,absolitly no friend,,there are a lot of fellons though...

gh15 approved

The big difference is that you hide like a coward.  You are full of shit and know it.  If you were someone to believe then you would prove who you are.  But you hide and talk shit about people.  You are a coward
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #108 on: December 02, 2010, 04:33:17 PM »
that is not correct. I did prove that testosterone was around in the 40s. that is a fact. it was mentioned in in health/bodybuilding literature already in the late 30s. that is a fact. so some bodybuilders knew about testosterone (long) before ziegler started experimenting with it, that is also a fact.

to be honest, I don't like your way of discussing things ND, seems to me that the only thing that matters to you is to get the last word and to be stubborn. I think anyone who reads this will realize that as testosterone was around long before ziegler played around with it the chances are high that bodybuilders experimented with it. and to clarify once again; does that mean that I can prove with hard evidence that reeves used it. no. never claimed I could.


Quote
that is not correct. I did prove that testosterone was around in the 40s. that is a fact. it was mentioned in in health/bodybuilding literature already in the late 30s. that is a fact. so some bodybuilders knew about testosterone (long) before ziegler started experimenting with it, that is also a fact.

In the context we're talking about testosterone wasn't ' around ' in the context of being use with positive results by strength athletes. And you're drawing your own conclusions by claiming they knew about testosterone before Ziegler , which leads one to believe they knew about it , it was somehow available and they used it successfully , people knew about testosterone for centuries it doesn't mean it was in use.

Quote
to be honest, I don't like your way of discussing things ND, seems to me that the only thing that matters to you is to get the last word and to be stubborn. I think anyone who reads this will realize that as testosterone was around long before ziegler played around with it the chances are high that bodybuilders experimented with it. and to clarify once again; does that mean that I can prove with hard evidence that reeves used it. no. never claimed I could.

Ironically I don't like the way you discuss things either by drawing conclusions based on vague references , it has nothing to do with me getting the last word. And there you go again ' chances are ' I don't deal in chances or bullshit , I deal in facts and the fact is there is no record what so ever of strength athletes in the United States using testosterone before Ziegler , I've yet to see one shred of proof

There is a pretty detailed record of drug use in the United States and it wasn't until years after Reeves retired.


 

Nirvana

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #109 on: December 02, 2010, 04:41:38 PM »
go to the fucking gym, you can find people like that who are natural.  why is that so hard to believe.

that would support roland cziuriolzwkjlok being gh15, he always looked smaller like maybe he had shitty natty genes.

dj181

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #110 on: December 02, 2010, 04:51:48 PM »
Did Roland have an outstanding chest? Coz gh15 claims that his chest was one of his best body parts.

First Blood

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #111 on: December 02, 2010, 04:59:04 PM »


Ironically I don't like the way you discuss things either by drawing conclusions based on vague references , it has nothing to do with me getting the last word. And there you go again ' chances are ' I don't deal in chances or bullshit , I deal in facts and the fact is there is no record what so ever of strength athletes in the United States using testosterone before Ziegler , I've yet to see one shred of proof

 

that's because I didn't argue that I could prove that reeves used. so it's obviously speculation. also look at the name of this board. you would be right on the money if the argument (mine) was 'proof that reeves used steroids'.

as for testosterone being around in the 40s and no strength athletes/bodybuilders using it is speculation on YOUR part. you don't know that. it's a possibility. and the positive effect part is something that YOU added to the discussion. not me.

it's MY opinion, based on what I have said in this thread , that it's very likely that bodybuilders experimented with testosterone long before ziegler did.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #112 on: December 02, 2010, 05:06:34 PM »
that's because I didn't argue that I could prove that reeves used. so it's obviously speculation. also look at the name of this board. you would be right on the money if the argument (mine) was 'proof that reeves used steroids'.

as for testosterone being around in the 40s and no strength athletes/bodybuilders using it is speculation on YOUR part. you don't know that. it's a possibility. and the positive effect part is something that YOU added to the discussion. not me.

it's MY opinion, based on what I have said in this thread , that it's very likely that bodybuilders experimented with testosterone long before ziegler did.

I certainly believe that reeves was experimenting with testosterone...same as other bodybuilders...and they already did that in the 40s!

they already did that in the 40s , that's not speculation

Quote
as for testosterone being around in the 40s and no strength athletes/bodybuilders using it is speculation on YOUR part. you don't know that. it's a possibility. and the positive effect part is something that YOU added to the discussion. not me.

it's not speculation there is NO record for it none what so ever , we have a well established time line for the use of testosterone in strength athletes in the United States there is no record before this and why? because NO ONE was using before then that's why anything else is backed up with nothing and usually from someone who wants it to be in use before then.

Quote
it's MY opinion, based on what I have said in this thread , that it's very likely that bodybuilders experimented with testosterone long before ziegler did.

very likely? highly unlikely is more like it seeing there is nothing to back it up , you don't really bother with evidence when forming an opinion do you? vague references is enough for you.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #113 on: December 02, 2010, 05:08:42 PM »
Did Roland have an outstanding chest? Coz gh15 claims that his chest was one of his best body parts.
;D

First Blood

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #114 on: December 02, 2010, 05:13:14 PM »
I certainly believe that reeves was experimenting with testosterone...same as other bodybuilders...and they already did that in the 40s!

they already did that in the 40s , that's not speculation
 

of course it speculation (because I have no proof). what else would you call it? you yourself called it speculation.  ???

and you don't need to tell me what I said, I know what I wrote earlier.

the "established" timeline you talk about started in the mid 30s when testosterone was first synthesized and it includes doctors prescribing it in the 40s.

look, I have nothing further to say. I don't want to play word-games with you. you are essentially arguing with yourself at this point as you are telling me what I write and what I mean with what I write. I find that kind of word-games very frustrating.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #115 on: December 02, 2010, 05:19:01 PM »
of course it speculation (because I have no proof). what else would you call it? you yourself called it speculation.  ???

and you don't need to tell me what I said, I know what I wrote earlier.

the "established" timeline you talk about started in the mid 30s when testosterone was first synthesized and it includes doctors prescribing it in the 40s.



You typed they already did that in the 40s that's not speculation

there you go again , it was synthesized in the 30s and doctors were prescribing it , this means what? yet NOT one single reference to any strength athlete in the United States using until Ziegler , long road from a mention in the 30s to being used by the masses in the 50s

To even speculate test was in use by athletes before Ziegler is really reaching there is simply nothing to back it up with

First Blood

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #116 on: December 02, 2010, 05:25:56 PM »
You typed they already did that in the 40s that's not speculation

there you go again , it was synthesized in the 30s and doctors were prescribing it , this means what? yet NOT one single reference to any strength athlete in the United States using until Ziegler , long road from a mention in the 30s to being used by the masses in the 50s

To even speculate test was in use by athletes before Ziegler is really reaching there is simply nothing to back it up with

yes it is speculation because I have no proof. I can write something and it can be speculation at the same time.

look man, I give up. I'm here to have fun. discussing with you is just frustrating at this point as you are not even willing to admit the possibility (in my mind likely, in your mind not likely) that people in the USA actually experimented with testosterone before ziegler. I have clearly stated that I have no proof. I have nothing more to say (I would just be repeating myself).

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #117 on: December 02, 2010, 05:29:22 PM »
yes it is speculation because I have no proof. I can write something and it can be speculation (at the same time).

look man, I give up. I'm here to have fun. discussing with you is just frustrating at this point as you are not even willing to admit the possibility (in my mind likely, in your mind not likely) that people in the USA actually experimented with testosterone before ziegler. I have clearly stated that I have no proof. I have nothing more to say (I would just be repeating myself).


You've given up several times now  ??? I wont admit the possibility of anyone using before Ziegler because there isn't anything that would leave me to think so , nothing what so ever , I researched high & low about drug use in the sport and nothing before the mid-1950s

Reeves

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #118 on: December 02, 2010, 07:40:48 PM »
Reeves was 100% natural.  As others have stated, you have only to look at photographs of him when he was in his teens to realize and accept the truth of this.  He trained hard, ate well and rested as needed.  Clancy Ross was another great that was all natural as was Dick Dubois and many, many others of the era.  It is something of a fact that those that scream the loudest that Reeves was a doper are those that seek to justify their own drug use.

I remember seeing his movies and hearing women sigh at first sight of him.  Women.  Beautiful women.  Fat women, skinny women, gorgeous, ugly, common, ravishing women.  All  women loved Reeves.  A Steve Reeves comes along once in a great while and so far we have yet to see another like him.  Like I said, women adored him and men wished they were him, or at least looked like him.  I know I do.

I will never be built as well nor look as good as Reeves but that doesn't give me license to whine about how he must have taken drugs, even a small amount of testosterone to look as fantastic as he did.  But then, I'm not a bitter little man. ;)

gh15

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #119 on: December 02, 2010, 11:30:21 PM »
Reeves was 100% natural.  As others have stated, you have only to look at photographs of him when he was in his teens to realize and accept the truth of this.  He trained hard, ate well and rested as needed.  Clancy Ross was another great that was all natural as was Dick Dubois and many, many others of the era.  It is something of a fact that those that scream the loudest that Reeves was a doper are those that seek to justify their own drug use.

I remember seeing his movies and hearing women sigh at first sight of him.  Women.  Beautiful women.  Fat women, skinny women, gorgeous, ugly, common, ravishing women.  All  women loved Reeves.  A Steve Reeves comes along once in a great while and so far we have yet to see another like him.  Like I said, women adored him and men wished they were him, or at least looked like him.  I know I do.

I will never be built as well nor look as good as Reeves but that doesn't give me license to whine about how he must have taken drugs, even a small amount of testosterone to look as fantastic as he did.  But then, I'm not a bitter little man. ;)

it has nothing to do with being handome my friend,,reeves actually didnt have such impressive physiqe,,he had symetric physiqe,,the use of testosterona made it sa little thicker,,but impressive ...well depends what you see as impressive ,,he had an enhanced swimmer physiqe a physiqe kind of like if that old model marky mark decided to train hard...both he and reeves took test but reeves also trained seriously,,

you fellas need to understand that when you have stresses of life,,wars,,when you live in era like the 40s which was much more depmanding than oru era ,,,you just cant maintain the condition and the level of size reeves had with out syntetic help,,if you knew alittle not a lot but a little about how human body works,,if you knew a little not a lot about how the cult of bodybuilding works,,if you knew how we bodybuilder stop at nothing to get advancment,,we will not do anything if it hurt our bodybuilding,,we wont go out ,,we wont go to long trip,,we wont go and do service for no one if it take energy,,we are very very lazy ,,if you understood it ...you would know he was on test,,he was just too active and living in an era he coudnt even be 190 at his condition naturally,,

fella was experiemneting with test thus labeled a liar ,,small liar,,not lee priest level liar,,but never the less the beggining of the mess you see now days,,since you know now days bodybuilding is close to a joke ,,no one respect us,,you got steve reeves to blame for what we can call  in a movie title ..."thie beggining;"

trust me when you gain money by lieing,,mark my words,,when you make money on lies,,you always pay the aultimate price,,he payed with it ,,his life,,he died prematurly at 70 something lonely miserable man with out any children ,,any thing to show for his life,,pretty much god revenge,,

now narcissit is crying right about now when reading it  so before he get heart attack on me,,my friend it is not that serious,,you say your peace i say mine,,mine is right yours is wrong ,,the end:)

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fallen angel

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2010, 11:41:06 PM »
little correction ,,he did have something to show for his life,,he was ok actor,,and won few bodybuilding contest,,and put his name in the books,,thats quite an achivment,,so my bad he did have something to show,,but the punishment came from within ,,only he and his god can understand it ,,anyways no body gave a fuck then and it would actually be much better if we as bodybuilder would stuck in 80s because no one gave a flying fuck about what we took then much like the 50s and 40s

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disco_stu

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #121 on: December 02, 2010, 11:57:50 PM »
Hey Gh15 what do you think of the weight guidlines that Steve Reeves put in to his book in regards to natural training?

Height    Ideal Weight
5’5”            160lbs
5’6”            165lbs
5’7”            170lbs
5’8”            175lbs
5’9”            180lbs
5’10”            185lbs
5’11”            190lbs
6’0”           200lbs
6’1”           210lbs
6’2”           220lbs
6’3”           230lbs
6’4”           240lbs
6’5”           250lbs

So most guys off the juice and sitting at a reasonable lean weight are going to be around this ballpark? They knew this shit fifty odd years ago...

all this does is disprove gh15s natural limits theory.
Reeves posts this as achievable for the 1950s era.

its 60 years on and people have better facilities, nutrition and knowledge, plus loads more people are weight training- meaning that the genetic pool is deeper.

you'd have to add 20 lbs to each bracket...take gh15's point about bodyfat though...these would be around 10% bfat. Still, 230lbs at 6'1 is about right, 10% bfat, for a natural. There'd still be gifted people getting to 240 or so...but the genetically endowed should be able to reach 230lb natural after around 10 years of training, with reasonable discipline and some sporting affinity.

that would align to lots that ive seen, and align well with other sports that have some weight training aspect such as rugby, afl football, swimming, boxing etc.

for instance:

ian thorpe- 6'5", 230lbs...remember he wasnt training for size or weight- and in fact all his events were a minute or so long- meaning he is in the aerobic category of athlete- i.e. equivalent to a 400m or 800m runner.

jonah lomuh, 6'5" 260lbs...rugby..again not training for size or weight..but much more so than swimming.

most afl football players run 10-20km per game...and they average 6'0" and 185lbs...they are also on the low end of bodyfat. these guys often put on 20kg in the first 6 months after they stop playing..bringing them to well over 200lbs and still in the lean range of bodyfat- they still dont train for size.

maurice greene- 5'9", 180lbs. and pretty darn lean...well under 10%. still not training for size/strength.

theres plenty more around to give lots of clues as to whos right and who isnt.

danny green- ibo cruiserweight is 6'1" and diets down to 200lbs. he is 220lbs most of the year..he trains mostly for endurance.


you can see that this is building up evidence to enable someone to make some judgments.







disco_stu

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #122 on: December 03, 2010, 12:02:45 AM »
In the context we're talking about testosterone wasn't ' around ' in the context of being use with positive results by strength athletes. And you're drawing your own conclusions by claiming they knew about testosterone before Ziegler , which leads one to believe they knew about it , it was somehow available and they used it successfully , people knew about testosterone for centuries it doesn't mean it was in use.

Ironically I don't like the way you discuss things either by drawing conclusions based on vague references , it has nothing to do with me getting the last word. And there you go again ' chances are ' I don't deal in chances or bullshit , I deal in facts and the fact is there is no record what so ever of strength athletes in the United States using testosterone before Ziegler , I've yet to see one shred of proof

There is a pretty detailed record of drug use in the United States and it wasn't until years after Reeves retired.


 

ND is right. test was "known"...but about all. pig extraction and the like... nothing a gym rat (they were not even able to be rats back then as it was pretty rare to weight train at all)..could get their hands on..even with the best contacts.

reeves should be considered drug free...and it was 1940s....they were experimenting with everything...had vague ideas of what to do and how and why..nothing to make training efficient.

using his guidelines- if they were formed from that era, would be being very conservative. if however he was writing them retrospectively then they'd be closer to reality.

for each 10 years you'd have to add a few lbs to the limits- just like average expected lifespan, things are improving for many reasons..and again, more people are exercising.


JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #123 on: December 03, 2010, 12:04:47 AM »
*INTERMISSION*


disco_stu

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Re: Steve Reeve's weight guidlines Natty. Gh15, accurate?
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2010, 12:05:21 AM »
You've given up several times now  ??? I wont admit the possibility of anyone using before Ziegler because there isn't anything that would leave me to think so , nothing what so ever , I researched high & low about drug use in the sport and nothing before the mid-1950s

you cant really argue this.

id add that even though ziegler created them in the 1950s, they didnt really filter to gym use until very late 1950s and early 1960s- and track athletes got their hands on them earlier- thats when it really started to end up with weight training..still, the dosages were low initially..