Author Topic: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.  (Read 26197 times)

local hero

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2010, 10:22:58 AM »
anyone going heavy for a good few years will break down eventualy,, only the young pups are advocating the heavy heavy approach, everyone with a decade of experience under there belt all know that u pick up so many injuries along the way that its no possible to keep on killing your self with huge daft weights...


take the middle road, keep the reps 8 and above at all times, use machines, make the exersize harder by emphasising the negative and squeezing the reps out

Spike

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2010, 10:25:36 AM »
anyone going heavy for a good few years will break down eventualy,, only the young pups are advocating the heavy heavy approach, everyone with a decade of experience under there belt all know that u pick up so many injuries along the way that its no possible to keep on killing your self with huge daft weights...


take the middle road, keep the reps 8 and above at all times, use machines, make the exersize harder by emphasising the negative and squeezing the reps out

THIS

PAY ATTENTION

Ursus

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2010, 10:28:06 AM »
anyone going heavy for a good few years will break down eventualy,, only the young pups are advocating the heavy heavy approach, everyone with a decade of experience under there belt all know that u pick up so many injuries along the way that its no possible to keep on killing your self with huge daft weights...


take the middle road, keep the reps 8 and above at all times, use machines, make the exersize harder by emphasising the negative and squeezing the reps out

By 20 I had a tricep and forearm injury that fecked up my training on and off for 3 years. Since dropping it and doing higher reps I am rarely injured.

thelamefalsehood

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2010, 10:30:48 AM »
anyone going heavy for a good few years will break down eventualy,, only the young pups are advocating the heavy heavy approach, everyone with a decade of experience under there belt all know that u pick up so many injuries along the way that its no possible to keep on killing your self with huge daft weights...


take the middle road, keep the reps 8 and above at all times, use machines, make the exersize harder by emphasising the negative and squeezing the reps out

I don't necessarilly agree with this. I have been lifting for close to 20 years and still go pretty heavy, and go as low as 1 to 2 reps. I have had injuries for sure, but probably as many as anyone else. It boils down to how well you know your body and listening to what it says.

local hero

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2010, 10:34:36 AM »
your the exception... all the big lads i know, including my self, dont go that heavy.... its all nice n smooth, and i wish i realised this 10 or 12 yrs ago

dj181

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2010, 10:36:43 AM »
Ok, so you're telling me that if one can go from benching 200 for 6 to benching 400 for 6 that his chest, delts, and tris won't be much, much bigger? lol

local hero

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2010, 10:38:55 AM »
one cant carry on banging out reps with 400 for years on end is the point being raised...

honestly, you can get perfect leg development by squating with just 3 plates per side, nice n smooth, full and deep,,, its how you lift it

Ursus

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2010, 10:41:38 AM »
Ok, so you're telling me that if one can go from benching 200 for 6 to benching 400 for 6 that his chest, delts, and tris won't be much, much bigger? lol

No. i am saying though that size does not equal strength and vice versa.

Look at some 185lb PLers. Some outbench me raw by 100lbs yet i outweight them by 75lbs.

dj181

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2010, 11:11:21 AM »
Sure enough, but the ONLY WAY  for those 185 pound powerlifters to get bigger, is to lift bigger and bigger weights. How else would you suggest for them to get bigger muscles? To lift less and less weight? lol                                          And as far as getting good leg development from squatting 3 plates on a side, right you are. Once most guys can squat with 3 plates on a side then they most likely will have some decent wheels on 'em. BUT... If they want to get then wheels even bigger then they MUST USE GREATER AND GREATER WORK LOADS.

local hero

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2010, 11:16:27 AM »
not realy... just perfect your form, perhaps go a tad heavier...

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2010, 11:30:10 AM »
I usually train in the pyramid style dropping reps as I add weight each set,then doing a few pump sets at the end of an exercise.

Best of both worlds.

You should go as heavy as you can for the reps you are shooting for whether it be 3 reps or 20 reps.

PERIOD.
^THIS^

dj181

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2010, 11:41:34 AM »
Yes, one should go as heavy as possible during their work sets, but the ONLY WAY to get bigger is by using greater and greater workloads ie PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD ;D So riddle me this... How does one get larger muscles, by using less and less weight? lol

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2010, 11:45:11 AM »
LMAO.. "If you do lighter reps you get cut"hahahhahahahahah

mesmorph78

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2010, 12:14:40 PM »
Heavy for me is never under 6 reps really
usually 10
heavy weight with reps = round dense muscle .. For me
choice is an illusion

Meso_z

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2010, 01:01:27 PM »
LMAO.. "If you do lighter reps you get cut"hahahhahahahahah
;D dont forget the timewatch to monitor those 15,23551 seconds of rest between those brutal "sets".

suckmymuscle

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2010, 01:44:11 PM »
Increase in strength is basically your tendons getting stronger.

  My God, what stupid retard nonsense is this? If your tendons get stronger but your muscles don't become bigger, you won't gain strength. Tendons do not contract, genius. What good are tendons that can hoist 100 lbs if the muscles can only contract with a force that hoists 50 lbs? Any strength gains always come with increased neuromuscular effIciency or increased number of sarcomeres. There is nothing else to it. Stronger tendons don't give to you even a single Newton of increased force.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Ursus

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2010, 01:47:58 PM »
 My God, what stupid retard nonsense is this? If your tendons get stronger but your muscles don't become bigger, you won't gain strength. Tendons do not contract, genius. What good are tendons that can hoist 100 lbs if the muscles can only contract with a force that hoists 50 lbs? Any strength gains always come with increased neuromuscular effIciency or increased number of sarcomeres. There is nothing else to it. Stronger tendons don't give to you even a single Newton of increased force.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Muscles can get stronger without getting bigger.

Jaime

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2010, 01:55:20 PM »
Muscles can get stronger without getting bigger.


lol short and sweet.
Trans Milkshake.

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2010, 02:16:54 PM »
It's like Milos once said....."you can call yourself a bodybuilder when you can go into an empty room and emerge with all your muscles pumped up"

A lot of guys just bang out the reps without feeling the muscle or focusing on what they're working.

If you have to add more weight to make an exercise harder, then you're not a bodybuilder who is in touch with their muscles.

I never use more than 135lb on the bench press, and my chest has grown significantly year upon year.











cephissus

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2010, 02:23:36 PM »
Something a lot of people seem to be missing, especially the "STRENGTH = SIZE" proponents is that WORKLOAD is NOT EQUAL to the WEIGHT ON THE BAR!!!

As people keep trying to drill into your brain over and over, it's about HOW YOU LIFT IT.  Yes, to get bigger muscles you have to increase the stress on the muscle, but that DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO INCREASE THE WEIGHT.

People who have huge quads and squat three plates do it with perfect form, very smooth, controlled, focus on the negative, all this serves to make the muscle work much harder with the fixed resistance (315 lbs).  You will see kids all the time throw on 3.5, 4 plates, even more who have gimpy little legs.  Some of that is due to neurological efficiency, and some of it is do to SHITTY FORM.  Powerlifting form, for bodybuilding purposes, is SHITTY.  They do everything in their power to LESSEN THE WORKLOAD on their muscles, so that 900lb squat becomes equivalent to 500 lbs work that the muscle has to do -- they change the leverages, have bad depth, use special suits, distribute the load across as many muscles as possible, etc etc.

When a powerlifter switches over to bodybuilding a la matt kroc, do you see him saying "well gee I've squatted 1013 lbs so I guess to get bigger legs and glutes I need to squat 1015... after all, size = strength right???" NO!  He goes down and works with weights in the 400-500 lbs range, changing his form and number of reps so that the MUSCLES have to do the most work, no more utilizing leverage, crappy form, get it up at all cost, mentality, which are all designed to make the resistance on the bar translate into as little muscular work as possible.

So yes, you have to increase the stress on the muscles to make them grow... looking around the gym, i see 99% of kids could use lighter weight and better form to achieve more massive muscles.

In bodybuilding, it's not about how much weight you can lift, it's about how much you can get the weight you are lifting to work for you.  Look at ANY big guy in the gym.  Perfect form, I guarantee it.  Sure there is the occasional Ron Coleman, Branch Warren, total freakish, indestructible joints + they're probably showing off for a video whenever you see them.

In summary: yes you have to increase the workload on the muscles, however in most cases this does not mean increasing the weight on the bar!!!

For the record I put ten pounds on my legs, with extremely noticeable visual changes in 2 months never lifting more than 115 on squats.  I did one set for time, 2 minutes the first week, adding 20 seconds to the clock every workout up until about 5 minutes.  Followed up with two excruciating sets of leg extensions no more than 135-150lbs and a couple leg curls.  Most people would say that wouldn't work.  Too many reps, not anaerobic work, wrong energy systems etc. etc... of course they have never tried it for themselves.

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2010, 02:27:31 PM »
Something a lot of people seem to be missing, especially the "STRENGTH = SIZE" proponents is that WORKLOAD is NOT EQUAL to the WEIGHT ON THE BAR!!!

Best post in the thread. It's all about how you lift. It's mind boggling to me that people think the only way to make an exercise harder is continually add weight.

dj181

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2010, 03:20:18 PM »
Allright, so y'all is saying that one can increase the workload without increasing the weight on the bar, so how can this be done, by increasing the number of reps, and thus the length of the set? If that is so, then how's come the most massive runners are the short sprint guys? 100 meters and under. Even the 400 meter guys are quite a bit less muscled than the short sprint guys.

Ursus

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2010, 03:32:46 PM »
Go from doing 3 sets of 8 @ 315 with 5 mins rest to 5x10 with 2 mins rest. You will get way bigger and stronger.

PJim

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2010, 03:39:42 PM »
Jesus, it's not that hard to figure out that strength is a prerequisite to size, it's just that people's size gains aren't uniform and linear so some have spurts and some are more even.  What are you supposed to do to get bigger, get weaker?

cephissus

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Re: the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2010, 04:15:23 PM »
No, it's just that people don't understand what "being strong" means.  Go set up on bench as a powerlifter would, and get 5 reps.  Perform as if you were a powerlifter at a meet -- get the weight up at all cost, maximum effort.  Then set up as a bodybuilder would, again 5 reps.  Perform as if you were a bodybuilder -- good control, even speed, appropriate ROM etc.

I guarantee you can get 50+ more lbs behaving as a powerlifter.  Does that mean your MUSCLES are stronger?  NO.  That's all we're trying to say.

Yes, to get more size your muscles must get stronger.  YOUR MUSCLES.  If you change your leverages, sacrifice your form, shorten the ROM, etc. etc. etc. just to add weight to the bar week after week are you getting any stronger than you would have if you kept the weight way lower and focused on getting your MUSCLES to do as much WORK as possible at a given WEIGHT?  NO, you're just going to, in all likelihood, hurt yourself.

If you are working with 4 plates on squat but you could grow using 3 plates with a safer form, WHY WOULDN'T YOU USE THREE PLATES??!?  This is a mentality that goes above the head of 99% of kids I see in the gym.