Author Topic: Climate change/global warming is real  (Read 38139 times)

kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #100 on: December 22, 2010, 06:25:25 PM »
Xerxes, I used to discuss this issue (among others) endlessly back when I was studying Environmental Engineering. The problem with the topic is that there are too many variables and possible outcomes that long term predictions become more of probable scenarios and educated guesses.

The Earth goes through long term climatic changes, cycles and shifts that are inevitable. Tbombz is talking about CO2 emission levels and greenhouse gas effects, but that's only part of the equation. You have so many factors that change and get changed subsequently, on top of things like positive and negative feedback and stuff like that.

For example, CO2 emission will cause an increased greenhouse effect, but the resulting increase in temperature will cause a rise in the evaporation levels of sea water and other reservoirs of water, which will increase the water vapour content of the atmosphere, which then leads to increased cloud formation. More clouds in the sky means more of the sunlight entering Earth is reflected back, ultimately causing lowered temperatures.

All that happens over many cycles and years. Weather and climate are complex phenomenon where long term prediction is just not accurate beyond a few days, let alone years or decades. For every argument that you have and quotes you can find from reputable scientists, you can find just as many from the opposing school of thought.

kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #101 on: December 22, 2010, 06:42:11 PM »
I disagree with the bold part.

Maybe not literally, but bear in mind that there is a lot of literature in textbooks and journals that aren't available online, at least for free. There could be more people supporting one side of the issue (whether global warming is real or not), but "the number of adherents is not proof of an idea's merit".

My point is that we can make all the extrapolations and predictions we want, but long term weather changes and shifts aren't accurately predictable with the level of understanding and science we have today.

Parker

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #102 on: December 22, 2010, 06:55:46 PM »
Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

Anyway after reading about this stuff for the last few days, going from one side to the other, seeing almost all deniers arguments demolished etc and seeing how they try to fool people and even seeing the skeptic scientists getting owned in debate - well.. I don't have anything more to add, and frankly I am getting tired of reading about this shit.
Now, you are seeing why I was arguing and saying what I said...because I was once someone who used to argue so fiercely for global warming, until I understood what Kiwiol brought up...this was yrs ago...and then when I saw the $$$ angle as well---for both sides.

kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #103 on: December 22, 2010, 07:03:43 PM »
Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

Anyway after reading about this stuff for the last few days, going from one side to the other, seeing almost all deniers arguments demolished etc and seeing how they try to fool people and even seeing the skeptic scientists getting owned in debate - well.. I don't have anything more to add, and frankly I am getting tired of reading about this shit.

That's the thing - there's a bit of truth on both sides, although neither know what it means in the end. Weather and Climate are complex phenomenon that have hundreds of variables changing and influencing each other in an open system (Earth) where the influx and outpouring of mass and energy are hardly constant or even measurable.

Which is why you can't say for sure whether it's going to rain or not some day next month, since it's all chaos. And the changes bring about more changes that change the direction of the trend. For example, the rise in average temperature will occur due to CO2 emission, but only up to a certain point, after which the increased evaporation will actually cause a cooling effect as mentioned before. So pointing at the fact that temperature is increasing isn't being very helpful, when it will actually cause an opposite effect of what you'd expect.

I too don't follow it all as eagerly as I used to. The people involved are just as prejudiced, with their own agendas that they wish to push and be accepted, so take everything with a pinch of salt, I guess.

kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #104 on: December 22, 2010, 07:14:39 PM »
Up until what point though? You've mentioned this twice but haven't put it in context. Temperature increasing up until it starts to decrease, yes but when that happens might be 1000 years from now? Do you have a source on how much it will increase before it will start going down again?

That's what I'm trying to say - that no one knows when it will happen or how much the temperature will need to go up before the cooling occurs or how much cooling will occur or what will happen in 1000 years and so on.

As for sources, it's mostly textbooks and journals that I used to read back when I was university. If you search in scientific databases that you find in university libraries (you can find some of them online), you'll find all the stuff I've mentioned, although again, you'll find opposing schools of thought in other articles and publications.

No one has the definitive answer or exact figures with respect to things like time or temperature, is what I'm driving at.

tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #105 on: December 22, 2010, 07:22:33 PM »
Maybe not literally, but bear in mind that there is a lot of literature in textbooks and journals that aren't available online, at least for free. There could be more people supporting one side of the issue (whether global warming is real or not), but "the number of adherents is not proof of an idea's merit".

My point is that we can make all the extrapolations and predictions we want, but long term weather changes and shifts aren't accurately predictable with the level of understanding and science we have today.
yes and anyone going to a decent university has access to all of those journals and databases. Guess what? They all support the position that human activities, and the resulting increases in greenhouse gases, mainly carbon dioxide, are causing a temperature increase and many other environmental disataers than can potentially, and likely will, have very adverse effects on the inhabitants of earth. One of them being death.

Again, there is a scientific consensus on this issue. That establishes a status quo for the educated opinion. And if you want to change that you need to provide some proof otherwise, or else you have no grounds for objection.

tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #106 on: December 22, 2010, 07:25:50 PM »
That's what I'm trying to say - that no one knows when it will happen or how much the temperature will need to go up before the cooling occurs or how much cooling will occur or what will happen in 1000 years and so on.

As for sources, it's mostly textbooks and journals that I used to read back when I was university. If you search in scientific databases that you find in university libraries (you can find some of them online), you'll find all the stuff I've mentioned, although again, you'll find opposing schools of thought in other articles and publications.

No one has the definitive answer or exact figures with respect to things like time or temperature, is what I'm driving at.
we don't know for sure what's going to happen so we might as well do nothing.



Great attitude, dipshit.

By the way, more water vapor means more clouds but clouds aren't the only way water vapor is stored in the atmosphere and most of the time it is contributing to the warming of the planet, not cooling us when it is in clouds. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that water vapor accounts for more heat absorption than any other green house gas. Hotter weather: more evaporation: more water vapor : more solar radiation absorbed.     


kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #107 on: December 22, 2010, 07:29:05 PM »
yes and anyone going to a decent university has access to all of those journals and databases. Guess what? They all support the position that human activities, and the resulting increases in greenhouse gases, mainly carbon dioxide, are causing a temperature increase and many other environmental disataers than can potentially, and likely will, have very adverse effects on the inhabitants of earth. One of them being death.

Again, there is a scientific consensus on this issue. That establishes a status quo for the educated opinion. And if you want to change that you need to provide some proof otherwise, or else you have no grounds for objection.

Firstly, they don't ALL support the position you've taken and secondly, even though the temperature is rising from CO2 emission, it doesn't mean that it will keep increasing without a ceiling. Could there be flooding of coastal areas from sea water levels rising? Yes. But will it change to a point where it will wipe out all life on Earth? No one knows and most likely not.

And again, I could Google and post studies and all that, but you or someone can find opposing studies just as easily. It will only prolong the debate, even though neither of us has the answer as to what is going to happen.  

kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #108 on: December 22, 2010, 07:32:22 PM »
we don't know for sure what's going to happen so we might as well do nothing.
Great attitude, dipshit.

I said I didn't see the point in discussing it further, not to stop the thread or for people to stop their studies, you moron. As usual, you read up on a few sites and now think you're an expert who knows it all, which is why I never waste time arguing with you.

Believe whatever you want to believe and post all the studies you want. I'm just not interested in discussing this endlessly, that's all.

tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #109 on: December 22, 2010, 07:55:28 PM »
Firstly, they don't ALL support the position you've taken and secondly, even though the temperature is rising from CO2 emission, it doesn't mean that it will keep increasing without a ceiling. Could there be flooding of coastal areas from sea water levels rising? Yes. But will it change to a point where it will wipe out all life on Earth? No one knows and most likely not.

And again, I could Google and post studies and all that, but you or someone can find opposing studies just as easily. It will only prolong the debate, even though neither of us has the answer as to what is going to happen.  


Yes, they ALL agree. Read




Science 3 December 2004:
Vol. 306 no. 5702 p. 1686
DOI: 10.1126/science.1103618
ESSAYS ON SCIENCE AND SOCIETY
BEYOND THE IVORY TOWER

The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change



Policy-makers and the media, particularly in the United States, frequently assert that climate science is highly uncertain. Some have used this as an argument against adopting strong measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. For example, while discussing a major U.S. Environmental Protection Agency report on the risks of climate change, then-EPA administrator Christine Whitman argued, “As [the report] went through review, there was less consensus on the science and conclusions on climate change” (1). Some corporations whose revenues might be adversely affected by controls on carbon dioxide emissions have also alleged major uncertainties in the science (2). Such statements suggest that there might be substantive disagreement in the scientific community about the reality of anthropogenic climate change. This is not the case.

The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC's purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3). In its most recent assessment, IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth's climate is being affected by human activities: “Human activities … are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents … that absorb or scatter radiant energy. … [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations” [p. 21 in (4)].

IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years, all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members' expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. For example, the National Academy of Sciences report, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, begins: “Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise” [p. 1 in (5)]. The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and answers yes: “The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue” [p. 3 in (5)].

Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (.

The drafting of such reports and statements involves many opportunities for comment, criticism, and revision, and it is not likely that they would diverge greatly from the opinions of the societies' members. Nevertheless, they might downplay legitimate dissenting opinions. That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords “climate change” (9).

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.

Admittedly, authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point.

This analysis shows that scientists publishing in the peer-reviewed literature agree with IPCC, the National Academy of Sciences, and the public statements of their professional societies. Politicians, economists, journalists, and others may have the impression of confusion, disagreement, or discord among climate scientists, but that impression is incorrect.

The scientific consensus might, of course, be wrong. If the history of science teaches anything, it is humility, and no one can be faulted for failing to act on what is not known. But our grandchildren will surely blame us if they find that we understood the reality of anthropogenic climate change and failed to do anything about it.

Many details about climate interactions are not well understood, and there are ample grounds for continued research to provide a better basis for understanding climate dynamics. The question of what to do about climate change is also still open. But there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change. Climate scientists have repeatedly tried to make this clear. It is time for the rest of us to listen.

References and Notes

1.↵ A. C. Revkin, K. Q. Seelye, New York Times A1 (19 June 2003).
2.↵ S. van den Hove, M. Le Menestrel, H.-C. de Bettignies, Climate Policy 2(1), 3 (2003).
3.↵ See www.ipcc.ch/about/about.htm.
4.↵ J. J. McCarthy, Ed. Climate Change 2001: Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability (Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 2001).
5.↵ National Academy of Sciences Committee on the Science of Climate Change, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions (National Academy Press, Washington, DC, 2001).
6.↵ American Meteorological Society, Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc. 84, 508 (2003).
7.↵ American Geophysical Union, Eos 84(51), 574 (2003).
8.↵ See www.ourplanet.com/aaas/pages/atmos02.html.
9.↵ The first year for which the database consistently published abstracts was 1993. Some abstracts were deleted from our analysis because, although the authors had put “climate change” in their key words, the paper was not about climate change.
10. This essay is excerpted from the 2004 George Sarton Memorial Lecture, “Consensus in science: How do we know we're not wrong,” presented at the AAAS meeting on 13 February 2004. I am grateful to AAAS and the History of Science Society for their support of this lectureship; to my research assistants S. Luis and G. Law; and to D. C. Agnew, K. Belitz, J. R. Fleming, M. T. Greene, H. Leifert, and R. C. J. Somerville for helpful discussions.

tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #110 on: December 22, 2010, 07:56:58 PM »
I said I didn't see the point in discussing it further, not to stop the thread or for people to stop their studies, you moron. As usual, you read up on a few sites and now think you're an expert who knows it all, which is why I never waste time arguing with you.

Believe whatever you want to believe and post all the studies you want. I'm just not interested in discussing this endlessly, that's all.
I'll have an associates in geography in may. Climate/earth weather systems is the main focus of physical geography.

kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #111 on: December 22, 2010, 08:10:18 PM »
Yes, they ALL agree. Read
Science 3 December 2004:

That is from 2004 and if you look at Xerxes' post at the top of this page, it shows you a list of scientists who aren't endorsing the global warming scenario. It's not just that - just Google for scientists that refute or take a stand against the global warming consensus and you'll see tons of stuff like this one here

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734

It's nothing new. Just about every school of thought in science has lots of opposing points of views and arguments. My point is that human impact on climate is not really well understood, at least to a point where you can turn it into a doomsday scenario.

tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #112 on: December 22, 2010, 08:54:03 PM »
That is from 2004 and if you look at Xerxes' post at the top of this page, it shows you a list of scientists who aren't endorsing the global warming scenario. It's not just that - just Google for scientists that refute or take a stand against the global warming consensus and you'll see tons of stuff like this one here

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734

It's nothing new. Just about every school of thought in science has lots of opposing points of views and arguments. My point is that human impact on climate is not really well understood, at least to a point where you can turn it into a doomsday scenario.

no, there is no back and forth on this issue in the scientific community. 30,000 scientists saying they dont agree doesnt mean shit when 98% of all the scientists who focus on climate are in agreement.

Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreement among top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers.



kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2010, 09:10:53 PM »
no, there is no back and forth on this issue in the scientific community. 30,000 scientists saying they dont agree doesnt mean shit when 98% of all the scientists who focus on climate are in agreement.

So you speak for the whole scientific community now, lol? Your second statement contradicts your first and the issue is still under debate, whether you like it or not. Bolding text doesn't make it any truer, sorry ;D

tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #114 on: December 22, 2010, 09:15:11 PM »
So you speak for the whole scientific community now, lol? Your second statement contradicts your first and the issue is still under debate, whether you like it or not. Bolding text doesn't make it any truer, sorry ;D
who is engaging in debate? not climate scientists, they are all in agreement.  :)

lovemonkey

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #115 on: December 22, 2010, 09:16:19 PM »
So you speak for the whole scientific community now, lol? Your second statement contradicts your first and the issue is still under debate, whether you like it or not. Bolding text doesn't make it any truer, sorry ;D

Maybe putting it in a large red font would help?
from incomplete data

haider

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #116 on: December 22, 2010, 09:17:06 PM »
Maybe putting it in a large red font would help?
hi gaydonis
follow the arrows

kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #117 on: December 22, 2010, 09:17:28 PM »
who is engaging in debate? not climate scientists, they are all in agreement.  :)

No they aren't. There were quite a few of them who signed that petition that's in the link I posted.


tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #118 on: December 22, 2010, 09:22:59 PM »

gotta bump this thread because of dumbass coach and his new "damn that global warming" thread

Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreement among top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers.

Yes, they ALL agree. Read




Science 3 December 2004:
Vol. 306 no. 5702 p. 1686
DOI: 10.1126/science.1103618
ESSAYS ON SCIENCE AND SOCIETY
BEYOND THE IVORY TOWER

The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change



Policy-makers and the media, particularly in the United States, frequently assert that climate science is highly uncertain. Some have used this as an argument against adopting strong measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. For example, while discussing a major U.S. Environmental Protection Agency report on the risks of climate change, then-EPA administrator Christine Whitman argued, “As [the report] went through review, there was less consensus on the science and conclusions on climate change” (1). Some corporations whose revenues might be adversely affected by controls on carbon dioxide emissions have also alleged major uncertainties in the science (2). Such statements suggest that there might be substantive disagreement in the scientific community about the reality of anthropogenic climate change. This is not the case.

The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC's purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3). In its most recent assessment, IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth's climate is being affected by human activities: “Human activities … are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents … that absorb or scatter radiant energy. … [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations” [p. 21 in (4)].

IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years, all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members' expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. For example, the National Academy of Sciences report, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, begins: “Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise” [p. 1 in (5)]. The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and answers yes: “The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue” [p. 3 in (5)].

Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (.

The drafting of such reports and statements involves many opportunities for comment, criticism, and revision, and it is not likely that they would diverge greatly from the opinions of the societies' members. Nevertheless, they might downplay legitimate dissenting opinions. That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords “climate change” (9).

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.

Admittedly, authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point.

This analysis shows that scientists publishing in the peer-reviewed literature agree with IPCC, the National Academy of Sciences, and the public statements of their professional societies. Politicians, economists, journalists, and others may have the impression of confusion, disagreement, or discord among climate scientists, but that impression is incorrect.

The scientific consensus might, of course, be wrong. If the history of science teaches anything, it is humility, and no one can be faulted for failing to act on what is not known. But our grandchildren will surely blame us if they find that we understood the reality of anthropogenic climate change and failed to do anything about it.

Many details about climate interactions are not well understood, and there are ample grounds for continued research to provide a better basis for understanding climate dynamics. The question of what to do about climate change is also still open. But there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change. Climate scientists have repeatedly tried to make this clear. It is time for the rest of us to listen.

References and Notes

1.↵ A. C. Revkin, K. Q. Seelye, New York Times A1 (19 June 2003).
2.↵ S. van den Hove, M. Le Menestrel, H.-C. de Bettignies, Climate Policy 2(1), 3 (2003).
3.↵ See www.ipcc.ch/about/about.htm.
4.↵ J. J. McCarthy, Ed. Climate Change 2001: Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability (Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 2001).
5.↵ National Academy of Sciences Committee on the Science of Climate Change, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions (National Academy Press, Washington, DC, 2001).
6.↵ American Meteorological Society, Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc. 84, 508 (2003).
7.↵ American Geophysical Union, Eos 84(51), 574 (2003).
8.↵ See www.ourplanet.com/aaas/pages/atmos02.html.
9.↵ The first year for which the database consistently published abstracts was 1993. Some abstracts were deleted from our analysis because, although the authors had put “climate change” in their key words, the paper was not about climate change.
10. This essay is excerpted from the 2004 George Sarton Memorial Lecture, “Consensus in science: How do we know we're not wrong,” presented at the AAAS meeting on 13 February 2004. I am grateful to AAAS and the History of Science Society for their support of this lectureship; to my research assistants S. Luis and G. Law; and to D. C. Agnew, K. Belitz, J. R. Fleming, M. T. Greene, H. Leifert, and R. C. J. Somerville for helpful discussions.


kiwiol

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #119 on: December 22, 2010, 09:55:29 PM »
Bigger AND bolder font? Yep, that definitely nails it ;D

tbombz

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #120 on: December 26, 2010, 05:39:16 PM »

gotta bump this thread because of dumbass coach and his new "damn that global warming" thread

Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreement among top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers.

Yes, they ALL agree. Read




Science 3 December 2004:
Vol. 306 no. 5702 p. 1686
DOI: 10.1126/science.1103618
ESSAYS ON SCIENCE AND SOCIETY
BEYOND THE IVORY TOWER

The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change



Policy-makers and the media, particularly in the United States, frequently assert that climate science is highly uncertain. Some have used this as an argument against adopting strong measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. For example, while discussing a major U.S. Environmental Protection Agency report on the risks of climate change, then-EPA administrator Christine Whitman argued, “As [the report] went through review, there was less consensus on the science and conclusions on climate change” (1). Some corporations whose revenues might be adversely affected by controls on carbon dioxide emissions have also alleged major uncertainties in the science (2). Such statements suggest that there might be substantive disagreement in the scientific community about the reality of anthropogenic climate change. This is not the case.

The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC's purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3). In its most recent assessment, IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth's climate is being affected by human activities: “Human activities … are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents … that absorb or scatter radiant energy. … [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations” [p. 21 in (4)].

IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years, all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members' expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. For example, the National Academy of Sciences report, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, begins: “Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise” [p. 1 in (5)]. The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and answers yes: “The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue” [p. 3 in (5)].

Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (.

The drafting of such reports and statements involves many opportunities for comment, criticism, and revision, and it is not likely that they would diverge greatly from the opinions of the societies' members. Nevertheless, they might downplay legitimate dissenting opinions. That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords “climate change” (9).

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.

Admittedly, authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point.

This analysis shows that scientists publishing in the peer-reviewed literature agree with IPCC, the National Academy of Sciences, and the public statements of their professional societies. Politicians, economists, journalists, and others may have the impression of confusion, disagreement, or discord among climate scientists, but that impression is incorrect.

The scientific consensus might, of course, be wrong. If the history of science teaches anything, it is humility, and no one can be faulted for failing to act on what is not known. But our grandchildren will surely blame us if they find that we understood the reality of anthropogenic climate change and failed to do anything about it.

Many details about climate interactions are not well understood, and there are ample grounds for continued research to provide a better basis for understanding climate dynamics. The question of what to do about climate change is also still open. But there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change. Climate scientists have repeatedly tried to make this clear. It is time for the rest of us to listen.

References and Notes

1.↵ A. C. Revkin, K. Q. Seelye, New York Times A1 (19 June 2003).
2.↵ S. van den Hove, M. Le Menestrel, H.-C. de Bettignies, Climate Policy 2(1), 3 (2003).
3.↵ See www.ipcc.ch/about/about.htm.
4.↵ J. J. McCarthy, Ed. Climate Change 2001: Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability (Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 2001).
5.↵ National Academy of Sciences Committee on the Science of Climate Change, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions (National Academy Press, Washington, DC, 2001).
6.↵ American Meteorological Society, Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc. 84, 508 (2003).
7.↵ American Geophysical Union, Eos 84(51), 574 (2003).
8.↵ See www.ourplanet.com/aaas/pages/atmos02.html.
9.↵ The first year for which the database consistently published abstracts was 1993. Some abstracts were deleted from our analysis because, although the authors had put “climate change” in their key words, the paper was not about climate change.
10. This essay is excerpted from the 2004 George Sarton Memorial Lecture, “Consensus in science: How do we know we're not wrong,” presented at the AAAS meeting on 13 February 2004. I am grateful to AAAS and the History of Science Society for their support of this lectureship; to my research assistants S. Luis and G. Law; and to D. C. Agnew, K. Belitz, J. R. Fleming, M. T. Greene, H. Leifert, and R. C. J. Somerville for helpful discussions.


freespirit

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #121 on: December 28, 2010, 05:06:41 AM »
gotta bump this thread because of dumbass coach and his new "damn that global warming" thread

Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreement among top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers. 

MELTDOWN !





The Showstoppa

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #122 on: December 28, 2010, 05:09:59 AM »
MELTDOWN !






haha, I see what you did there.... ;D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #123 on: December 28, 2010, 05:12:25 AM »
I shoveled about 21 inchs of global warming yesterday. 

My sis in Syracuse has record global warming and got 4 feet last week. 


freespirit

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Re: Climate change/global warming is real
« Reply #124 on: December 28, 2010, 05:15:16 AM »
I shoveled about 21 inchs of global warming yesterday. 

My sis in Syracuse has record global warming and got 4 feet last week. 



Thank god we have tbombz to tell us the "truth".  :D