Who here believes that a clean diet gets an outstanding physique?

[Master Blaster]

wow so youve been eating that way for years you must look fantastic

he's huge, brah

[cephissus]

They both used fat burning agents to achieve their lean state, and lied about what they ate.

How do you know this, specifically with regard to wavelength?  Just because he got so lean?  His diet sounded too ridiculous?

Again, sincerely interested in your opinion.

[Palpatine Q]

Allow me to expand  

One of the proponents (adonis) is a complete mind-fuck artist....he has made a career out of getting fools to melt over his nonsense

The second(wave) came out of nowhere with an ultra ripped body and said "me too"....the only other pics he has ever posted showed a guy that is in pretty damn good shape regardless

The third (panda) has failed miserably....after 5 months he pretty much looks the same, he dropped a few lbs., but nothing noteworthy and nowhere near the outlandish claims he made.

Other than that you have the occasional poster who claims to be making great progress following this diet but funny, they never seem to post a pic  

Meanwhile you have thousands of people every year who get in shape, get lean and win BBing contests following their "archaic" dieting methods

[Palpatine Q]

How do you know this, specifically with regard to wavelength?  Just because he got so lean?  His diet sounded too ridiculous?

Again, sincerely interested in your opinion.

I don't "know" anything....IMO they are full of shit, based on common sense

[benchmstr]

I don't "know" anything....IMO they are full of shit, based on common sense

they are totally full of shit...there are a lot of popular diet myths out there...but clean eating isnt one of them..

bench

[cephissus]

I think it's strange because everything wavelength says in his guide makes sense to me.

For reference, this is what I'm talking about:

Essential Rules

- Workout with weights 3 times a week.
- Drink about a gallon of water each day.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight change is maintained.
- The rate of weight change should not be above 3lbs/week, 1-2lbs/week is recommended.

IMO, any diet (resp. cutting method) that follows the above rules is optimal for cutting, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305

Now, the "calorie is a calorie" thing only comes into play on the fifth point of that list.  I'm following this list to a T, and getting good results so far (I've actually posted pics too, and I'll be sure to at the end if I get good results).  However, like I said before, I don't eat kit kats but rather traditional bodybuilding foods (lol) like chicken and rice, for the most part.  If I take an liberties and eat pizza or whatever I make sure it still follows the above rules.

I'm surprised to hear that some here think you can't get ripped following that plan, and need fatburners or whatever.

[Master Blaster]

I don't "know" anything....IMO they are full of shit LIES, based on common sense

[benchmstr]

I think it's strange because everything wavelength says in his guide makes sense to me.

For reference, this is what I'm talking about:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305

Now, the "calorie is a calorie" thing only comes into play on the fifth point of that list.  I'm following this list to a T, and getting good results so far (I've actually posted pics too, and I'll be sure to at the end if I get good results).  However, like I said before, I don't eat kit kats but rather traditional bodybuilding foods (lol) like chicken and rice, for the most part.  If I take an liberties and eat pizza or whatever I make sure it still follows the above rules.

I'm surprised to hear that some here think you can't get ripped following that plan, and need fatburners or whatever.

i am talking mainly about a calorie is a calorie...wavelengths guide is a pretty standard ideal...nothing new with it at all...

bench

[HTexan]

Believes this horseshit that a "clean diet" is requirement to have an outstanding physique?

No. Shit diet works depending on other variables. But I think clean vs shit on the same person clean will work better.

[benchmstr]

No. Shit diet works depending on other variables. But I think clean vs shit on the same person clean will work better.

this...i have to throw is some junk on a daily basis just cause the ammount of cardio i do on top of regular lifting...but other than that i eat clean..

bench

[Palpatine Q]

I think it's strange because everything wavelength says in his guide makes sense to me.

For reference, this is what I'm talking about:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305

Now, the "calorie is a calorie" thing only comes into play on the fifth point of that list.  I'm following this list to a T, and getting good results so far (I've actually posted pics too, and I'll be sure to at the end if I get good results).  However, like I said before, I don't eat kit kats but rather traditional bodybuilding foods (lol) like chicken and rice, for the most part.  If I take an liberties and eat pizza or whatever I make sure it still follows the above rules.

I'm surprised to hear that some here think you can't get ripped following that plan, and need fatburners or whatever.

So why don't you post a pic of your ripped physique you obtained eating 'whatever you want' and shut us all up ?

[kiwiol]

No. Shit diet works depending on other variables. But I think clean vs shit on the same person clean will work better.

Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.

At the end of the day, Philosophy is proven only by it's results. Take twins and make one eat the clean diet while the other eats garbage, with both of them doing the same workout - over time, the twin eating the healthier food is going to be stronger and more muscular, as well as look and feel better.

[dj181]

Hey c, you seem like a cool fella, so I'll be easy on ya You can eat clean, and that's cool if you like, but the whole point is that it isn't required. I'm getting back into condition at the moment so I don't look so grand. But, I did look pretty decent some 10 years ago, and in fact you can see how I exactly looked if you check my thread entitled "Me at my peak" And honest to God, my "diet" was horrendous, double cheeseburgers, french fries, ice cream, etc. Yeah, that's cool if you eat chicken and rice, but it's not a requirement

[StickStickly]

Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.

At the end of the day, Philosophy is proven only by it's results. Take twins and make one eat the clean diet while the other eats garbage, with both of them doing the same workout - over time, the twin eating the healthier food is going to be stronger and more muscular, as well as look and feel better.

Dave Palumbo and vince taylor claim cables are better. What are your thoughts on that kiwi?

[benchmstr]

Dave Palumbo and vince taylor claim cables are better. What are your thoughts on that kiwi?

they were also on a shit load of drugs....all they were trying to do was fill the muscle with blood...its all they needed to do..

for anyone not pounding drugs?...stick to real weights..

bench

[dr.chimps]

Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.

At the end of the day, Philosophy is proven only by it's results. Take twins and make one eat the clean diet while the other eats garbage, with both of them doing the same workout - over time, the twin eating the healthier food is going to be stronger and more muscular, as well as look and feel better.

Are you saying Panda is all about the cable cross-overs and Indian Clubs?    

[kiwiol]

Dave Palumbo and vince taylor claim cables are better. What are your thoughts on that kiwi?

Free weight barbell curls force you to work more to stabilize the bar on top of doing the actual curl, so as long as your form is good, that exercise is superior to doing cable curls.

You can benefit from cable curls, esp. if drugs come into the equation, but I'd say it's better to use them both in your workout. If I had to pick just one and wanted the best possible arms, I'd pick the (EZ) barbell curl.

they were also on a shit load of drugs....all they were trying to do was fill the muscle with blood...its all they needed to do..

for anyone not pounding drugs?...stick to real weights..

bench

Exactly

[StickStickly]

Free weight barbell curls force you to work more to stabilize the bar on top of doing the actual curl, so as long as your form is good, that exercise is superior to doing cable curls.

You can benefit from cable curls, esp. if drugs come into the equation, but I'd say it's better to use them both in your workout. If I had to pick just one and wanted the best possible arms, I'd pick the (EZ) barbell curl.

I tell people to stay away from easy bar... they call it easy bar for a reason ... I think forcing your wrist to be supinated balances the pressure on the bicep evenly so you aren't hitting brachialis. It hurts at first but im used to it now and its all i will ever do.

[benchmstr]

I tell people to stay away from easy bar... they call it easy bar for a reason ... I think forcing your wrist to be supinated balances the pressure on the bicep evenly so you aren't hitting brachialis. It hurts at first but im used to it now and its all i will ever do.

the easy bar comes in to play in a big way though.....your shoulders will think you...think about the tendons...

bench

[StickStickly]

the easy bar comes in to play in a big way though.....your shoulders will think you...think about the tendons...

bench

How so... i have yet to have shoulder issues. I don't have to cheat. Im so badass i curl 315 without any swing... all bicep baby. You wanna kiss them?

[kiwiol]

Are you saying Panda is all about the cable cross-overs and Indian Clubs?    

Based on his posts on the subject, maybe I should let JNN take this question

I tell people to stay away from easy bar... they call it easy bar for a reason ... I think forcing your wrist to be supinated balances the pressure on the bicep evenly so you aren't hitting brachialis. It hurts at first but im used to it now and its all i will ever do.

I do both EZ bar and straight bar curls (and cables too, towards the end). I've got tiny wrists, so I can't curl heavy with the straight bar to start off. So I do the EZ curls first and then straight bar curls, followed by dumbell and hammer curls.

[benchmstr]

How so... i have yet to have shoulder issues. I don't have to cheat. Im so badass i curl 315 without any swing... all bicep baby. You wanna kiss them?

people dont realize it...but if you do a lot of straight bar curls, or just overtrain the bi's the shoulders go to shit...not due to form, or muscle problems...just due to certain tendons, and ligaments...

bench

[cephissus]

Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.

Honestly, this is statement gets to the heart of the issue.  Are barbell curls REALLY better than cable curls?  How do you know?  Have you observed long term growth with both, and compared the rates?  And not just in yourself, but others too?

How about people clean vs dirty diet (keeping calories steady, ie "a calorie is just a calorie")?  How many people espousing one method have even tried the other?  Sure there are countless bodybuilders who have eaten clean while dieting down, but how many have EVEN TRIED eating dirty while dieting down?  I'm sure 99.999999% of them, especially these days, just look at what everyone else is doing and follow suit.

I eat clean because I believe that there are substantial health benefits, and these will eventually have a significant impact on the appearance of your physique as well.  But I definitely have my doubts, and wouldn't be surprised if the impact on one's appearance wasn't small enough to justify those in the "calorie is just a calorie" camp.

[Palpatine Q]

Free weight barbell curls force you to work more to stabilize the bar on top of doing the actual curl, so as long as your form is good, that exercise is superior to doing cable curls.

You can benefit from cable curls, esp. if drugs come into the equation, but I'd say it's better to use them both in your workout. If I had to pick just one and wanted the best possible arms, I'd pick the (EZ) barbell curl.


Exactly

YUP.

[StickStickly]

Based on his posts on the subject, maybe I should let JNN take this question


I do both EZ bar and straight bar curls (and cables too, towards the end). I've got tiny wrists, so I can't curl heavy with the straight bar to start off. So I do the EZ curls first and then straight bar curls, followed by dumbell and hammer curls.

You can only do soo much anyway without cheating. I have tiny wrists too so i usually stop at 135.. No real point in going over that.